JAR ATPL Requirements ?

[Canada Goose]

Hi there,

I'm a newbie poster to pprune - wannabie (though I've been an avid guest viewer for some time).

OK, here is my question; can anyone tell me (and I know that there are some wel informed people out there) or point me to an official source as to what is required (both flying hours + theory)for a JAR ATPL. From my recent readings I realise that the JAR ATPL is a real hot tattie at the moment, and in case anyone was wondering why I may be asking such an ignorant question, it's because I don't currently live in a JAR state. I hear about a 'frozen' ATPL and can only assume that this refers to passing the theory exams, so that begs the question ? How much flying time before a 'melted' ATPL ;) ?

Thanks.

[EGDY2]

1500 hrs to melt

[Sledge]

Try the light reading matter distributed on the CAA web page:http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/fcl/fcl_information.asp

[Manflex55]

... & try also the official JAR requirements which U find here (http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/toc00000459.htm). ;)

MF

[Canada Goose]

Thanks for the replies. So, airlines must be taking pilots on with only frozen ATPL's then as some of the posts and other info I have heard along the way is that people are being recruited with much less hours than 1500. Some as low as 200 hrs !!?

[foghorn]

Affirm, there's a bit of a shortage of pilots at all levels here - people are being hired with 200 hours frozen ATPLs. This is not to say that every low hour pilot is walking into that big job, though, but it's not unheard of.

1,000+ hours still seems to be the magic figure.

Also be aware that under JAR you need 500 hours multi crew to get the ATPL, so all people getting their first airline job in future will, by definition, have a frozen ATPL (unless they payed for multi-crew hours or something odd....)

cheers!
foggy

[Canada Goose]

Nice one Foggy. Pretty much confirmed my assumptions on this matter.
Have a great weekend.

Cheers,
CG

[Chris2]

Howzit

I have a South African (frozen) ATPL
and fly as P2 on a King Air 200 for the United Nations in Africa. Our operation (UN) requires two-crew. My total time is 850 hours, rising at >100 hours per month, I should manage to 'unfreeze' my license by next year.

Looking at the www.srg.caa.co.uk (http://www.srg.caa.co.uk) website, it says that to convert my SA ATPL to a JAA one, I would need to pass the ATPL theory exams, and do a flight test... without any additional flight training... provided I have 500 hours multi-crew experience AND do the flight test on the aircraft which I'm rated on.

Would this apply to me, and could I do the flight tests on a King Air 200, in the UK ?

Also -
What are the average hiring requirements (hours) for the airlines in Europe ?

Do European airlines employ people on the basis of a foreign license with JAA validation ?

Any input greatly appreciated.

Regards
Chris

[rolling circle]

Provided that you have authenticated evidence, acceptable to the CAA, that the B200 operation was multi-crew then you can count those hours towards JAA ATPL requirements. As to what is acceptable evidence, you would have to check with Gatwick but I would guess something like a statement from the Chief Pilot or the SA Authority.

I'm afraid, however, that you have the other bit the wrong way round. You don't have to do the flight test on the aircraft on which you are rated, you have to be rated on the aircraft on which you do the flight test which must be a multi-crew aircraft as defined in AMC-FCL 1.215. The B200 is not included in this list and you will, therefore, need to attend an approved course and gain a type rating on a compliant aeroplane before you can take the ATPL Skill Test on that aeroplane.

Bear in mind that, under JARs, an ATPL is not necessary to fly as co-pilot of a multi-crew aeroplane - as foghorn points out, the requirement is a CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge.

The full list of multi-pilot aeroplanes is as follows:

Aerospatiale/Sud Aviation - SN601 Corvette; SE 210/10B3/11/12

Aerospatiale/BAC - Concorde

Aerospatiale/Nord Aviation - Nordatlas 2501; C160 P Transall; 260A/262 A-B-C Nord

Aero Spaceline - Super Guppy

Airbus - A300; A300FFCC; A310; A319/320/321; A330; A340; A300-600ST Beluga

ATR - ATR 42/72

Mitsubishi/Beech/Raytheon - Beech 400/MU300

Boeing - B707/720; B717; B727; B737; B747 ;B757/767; B777

British Aerospace/AVRO - ATP Jetstream 61; AVRO RJ/BAe146; BAC 1-11

Hawker Siddley/BAe/Raytheon - HS125; HS748

Hawker Siddley/BAe - Jetstream 31/32

BAe/AVRO - Jetstream 41

Canadair - CL415; CL600/601; CL600 B19; CL600 2B16

CASA - C212/CN235

Cessna - C500/550/560; C650; C750

Consolidated Vultee Aircraft - CV240/340/440; CV580

Dassault - Falcon 10/100; Falcon 20/200; Falcon 50/900/900EX; Falcon 2000

De Havilland Canada - DHC7; DHC8; DHC8-400

Dornier - DO328-100; DO329-300

McDonnel-Douglas/Boeing - A-26B; DC3; DC4; DC6; DC7DC8; DC9-80/MD88/MD90; DC10; MD11

Embraer - EMB120; EMB135; EMB145

Fokker/Fairchild - F27; F28; F50; F70/100

Grumman Gulfstream - Gulfstream I; Gulfstream II/III; Gulfstream IV; Gulfstream V

Handley Page - Herald

Israeli Aircraft Industries - IAI-1121 Jetcommander/-1123 Commodore Jet/-1124 Westwind; IAI-1126 Astra

Junkers - JU52

Lockheed - L188 Electra; L382 G (C130) Hercules; L1011; L1329 Jetstar

Learjet - Learjet 20/30; Learjet 45;
Learjet 55; Learjet 60

Leteckee - Let L410

MBB - HFB320l; VFW-614

PT Industry - IPTN CN 235-110

Rockwell International - NA-265 Series

Saab - SF340; SAAB 2000

Short Brothers - SD 3-30/60; SC5 Belfast

Vickers-Armstrong - Vanguard; Viscount

[kuzzin]

Howzit!
Didnt they seys somting like they would aksept one tird of multi crew on u 200 toward a higher lisense?
Like I dont gettit hey!

:cool: