Career Development Loan refused, why?

[KillKenny]

As the title says, my CDL was refused by RBS.

Apparently, my credit scoring wasn't high enough...

...my question is, how the hell can anyone expect anyone who's middle aged, a high earning home owner...namely, someone who is unlikely to either need, or want a CDL???!??

I'm 25 years old, I presently earn well over £20k pa, have no debts, have 3 credit cards with a combined credit limit in excess of £12k. On the minus side, I live with parents currently; prior to that have been at two rented properties in the last 2 years, also I have two current a/c's, one of which I don't put very much thru on a regular basis.

I shall be phoning RBS tomorrow morning to give'em hell.

Anyone got any relevent points either to me, or ones I could make to RBS???

Yours etc, one very pissed off PPRUNER!
:eek: :mad: :mad:

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: KillKenny ]

[Si]

Join the club.

[leading edge!]

I would consider HSBC or the Halifax. I approached both of these and they were very helpful. It may be that I am a home owner with a positive equity. I spoke to two flying organisations who specifically recommended HSBC. I think that the only problem is that you MUST change any bank accounts etc to their bank. Hope that this assists!! :)

[KillKenny]

Would any PPRuNer has successfully applied for a CDL enlighten us to their finacial circumstances?

Surely, the whole point of this scheme is that it offers people the chance to make change to a career they want...and if they are doing so, the chances are they probably won't fit into the high credit scoring catagory I described in my first post!

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: KillKenny ]

[leading edge!]

Killkenny,

33 years old, PPL, No debts, mortgage 78k, House value 140K..Full time employment and salary 36k P/A.
Why do I want to do my ATPL's when so comfortable....There is only one job that would make me happy!!LE!

[Si]

Join the club.

[KillKenny]

leading edge! - let me guess....IT specialist???

[Si]

sorry about the double posting didn't mean to do that!

Anyway, i applied to RBS, and 'did not score highly enough yadayada...' so I am just waiting on my second application from Barclays. I posted a msg similar to yours a while back, you see, i am relatively young, live with my parents and work at a local supermarket to help foot the bill for the flying.I explained my intentions on wanting to do my ATPL's etc...but didn't get anywhere.

What pi**ed me off was that how can they expect someone of 19 to have a steady job, earning a decent wage and maybe own a house. I think not, I thought the whole idea of a CDL was to enhance your career by getting a loan to do so as you can't afford to yourself, otherwise you would have paid your own way.

Another thing that pi**d me off was that it said they were willing to give 100% of the loan to someone who has been unemployed for 3 months, now how on earth can they justify that if they won't give it to someone like like KillKenny who seems to be pretty secure??? The term 'go figure' springs to mind.

Right, well thats enbough whinging from me.
Oh and by the way Halifax don't do a CDL, trust me i tried that one!

[KillKenny]

Si, lord only know's what one must do.

I actually got approved for by Natwest for a £10000 'standard' loan(i.e. not CDL) about 3 months ago - this was prior to hearing about CDL's (thru PPRuNe incidentally), and hence decided again taking it out.

Anyway, Mr R.B. Bank will receive a very forthright phone call tomorrow AM asking what the hell he is playing at, and will post my findings in this forum.

One thing that REALLY gets under my skin is that one of my credit cards is through RBS with a credit limit of £5400 - over half way to the £8000 CDL I asked for!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: KillKenny ]

[clear prop!!!]

Here (again) is the long and short of CDL applications for Commercial Flying.

The max on offer is about £8k, right?

You are going to need a LOT more than £8k…right?

When you put your case to the Bank (which ever one you choose, ‘cos they are all in the same boat), you will need to show them how you will finance the complete course ...to conclusion.

Unless you have CPL already and ‘just’ need to do an FIC or IR to become employable you will not get the loan, UNLESS you can show proof of funds in place to finance the other elements of a modular route.

Again if you wish to part fund an integrated course with a CDL, you will need to show where the rest is coming from.

In short you MUST go armed with a business plan which shows the Bank that the CDL will be spent in such a way as to allow you to complete your training and be employable.

Please don’t argue with the above, it is FACT. Been there ..done it ..got the T shirt.

Buy the way the interest rates are verging on extortion when it comes to pay the loan back (about 11.5%!!). Ok you get a repayment holiday whilst training but you will pay for it at the end of the day!

Sadly modular aviation training doesn’t quite fit a CDL (multiple training providers etc) but, you can get one, but, it’s a hassle!

[village flyer]

Get This,

25 yr old, currently self employed, earning IR2K a week, own property (plenty of collatoral and all other BS), 1 very low mortgage, car paid for no debt on credit cards - and I am on my knees (not praying) to an institution for CDL.
I have degrees and quals comming out of my arse, never had to do interview for work always had a project to walk to and now when I finally want to do something that I want and have set myself up for over the last no. of years some suit wants to give me a hard time despite the fact that me and my family have been life long members of their institution.

Just sickening...

VF

[clear prop!!!]

VF

If as you say you earn £100k pa http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/rolleyes.gif , have a small mortgage with loads of equity in your property, why the hell are you pissing around applying for an £8k CDL?

Borrow against the equity on the property and you will pay a damn sight less than CDL rates!!!

As I keep saying. You need to prove that you can fund, or are good for, any shortfall in training costs and you will get a CDL ...NO problem!

BTW, Si in your last post on this subject, you were going to meet with your Bank and let us know the outcome. How did it go?

[So it is]

I managed to get a CDL from the Clydesdale without any hassle. I am a homeowner and wasnt earning a fortune either. I do also know someone else who stayed with their folks and was 19 yrs old that was also approved. It properly depends on the manager at the bank.

[village flyer]

Ahh, the 8K may not be the problem, that can be attained, and totally agree with the methodology involved getting this funding. However, Why should all savings and cash flow be buried into some forigners fat bank account when I can use those funds to continue my business (on a part time basis) and finance any loan that I should be able to recieve from a lending institute.

VF

[Si]

When I rang RBS, they said that I didn't score high enough...which I already knew. I said why, and they said that it was because i had applied for the full loan of 8K, and apparently if you are in work you can only apply for 80% of the loan, also it said there was no evidence of how i was going to fund the rest of the course and finally, my father sent in a letter explaining that should there be any problems that he can provide security.

So may be they thought that well why isn't he funding the training then, he does bank with RBS and they said that he didn't provide any evidence on his bank accounts etc, he says he did.

So there you go, i'll let you know how Barclays goes as i have changed a few things upon applying.

[Bloody long way down]

I can definately recommend the HSBC. They offer a scheme under the Professional Studies Loan which is designed for people undertaking a pHD, Degree's and the Commercial Pilots Licence. They will pay for the entire funding of the course and you do not start any repayments until the training is complete. The interest they charge is only 2% above their base rate (which currently is approx 5%) as you can see this a very low rate 7% :D
You can pick up an info leaflet from your local branch ask for the Professional Studies Loan leaflet.
However as previously stated in another post you will have to transfer your current bank details to the HSBC.
I have found them to be extremly helpful and understanding. At present I understand that they are the only bank to offer such a scheme.

I hope this has helped some of you out there! It's certainly been a great help to me. :D

[USE THE RUDDERS]

Managed to get a CDL with Barclays last year and had enough money to pay for the rest of the course fees and living expenses.Just returned from South Africa with CPL/IR now have to find money to pay of loan.Delayed payments by an extra 6 months,intrest rates are high though. ;)

[Si]

I went into HSBC today to find out about the Prof Studies Loan, seems the best way to do it. You don't have to pay anything back until six months after you finish!

So, whats the difference between this and a CDL then?

Cheers

[Bloody long way down]

Si, A CDL will only supply you with upto a maximum of £8000 towards your studies (as previously stated HSBC will fund the entire course) and repayments will commence almost immediatly after finishing your studies and the interest will be somewhere between 8-10% (Cant be sure) Another thing is that you can only repay the loan over a maximum of 5 years, whereas with the HSBC you have the choice of 5, 7 or 10 years.

An added bonus with HSBC is that they will cover living expences upto a max of £5000 or 2/3 of your previous years salary which ever is lower! This of course will be added to the loan. (You never get anything for free, especially from a bank) :(

[helimutt]

Have to agree with Clear Prop here. Why would anyone earning that much money want to borrow 8K? Doesn't make sense.
A loan is so easily obtainable from the bank you use all of the time.
I walked into a bank last thursday and asked for 25K to finish off funding commercial (H)and to pay off smaller loans (yes, flying costs too). Ten minutes later, upgraded to a platinum account and money in my account! APR 8.7%
Still got to pay it back though. :eek: :eek:

[Si]

Hey,

I don't know if i am allowed to do this, but for those that are intrested in the HSBC loans try this:-
http://www.banking.hsbc.co.uk/personal/borrowing-money/loans-for-specific-needs/postgraduate-loans.htm

If there is any problems, delete the post by all means.

Cheers

:) :D ;)

[Pilot Barbie]

Why did they turn you down? Because banks only like to lend money to people who don't need it. Don't be put off, but do your research before you try again at a more enlightened bank (I likewise recommend the HSBC).

It doesn't pay to be too, ahem, honest with banks. Tell them what they want to hear, as long as they get paid back it doesn't matter.

Good luck. ;)

[trolleydollylover]

Just had the same happen to me this week from RBS. It really shot me down in flames. I am so close at this moment and yet I cannot get the money, it is heart breaking. I left a great career for this nonsense. Hence Istarted the post job hunting.

I will make it...just through sheer guile and determination. and by robbing a bank.

Went to HSBC, a bunch of arse. Have spoken to all of the highstreets. Lloyds have helped. Going to try Barclays tomorrow for the CDR.

Looking for a job in the meantime.

[mad_jock]

If you get knocked back from a few its always worth paying the 5 quid to see your credit details. It could be that you have the black spot on them by mistake and that is the reason why you are always getting the bums rush.

All the banks run from the same data sources so this could be your problem.

MJ

[KillKenny]

They really are a pain in the backside these CDL's.

After much to-ing and fro-ing, finally managed to get my CDL approved. Problem centred around proof of funding for my ATPL course in it's entrity. Had to send more details about where the money's coming from.

Why the frig didn't they say that in the letter declining my application I ask myself.

[Blackshirt]

Hmm...banks. Cock suckers in my opinion.

They're bigger than you and they know it.

You play by their rules or you can bugger off.

All part of the profit-making quasi-governmental burecracy. They decide what goes.

Don't let the buggers grind you down.

[JPJ]

To state the obvious: Banks are not charities, and they have shareholders, customers and a Government to keep happy.

If you can convince the Bank that you are responsible, and that your numbers add up, you might well be in there with a good chance.

In my experience HSBC has a slightly more friendly approach to young professionals, but it is a business - no more or less.

[jarjam]

My smpathys with any body trying to get a CDL. I was refused four times with no resonable reason given by any of the banks tried which included RBS Clyesdale Co-op and finaly Barclays. 20 or 30 persistent phone calls later and a nice Aussy phone operator called Tanya finaly got me the loan what a pain in the arse. thankfully all training now completed. my background is I am a 22 year old ex Chef never earned more than 12k a year living back at home with the folks with all savings severly depleted. keep asking them and enentualy they will crack!

[PFO]

I went to HSBC a while back and they said they wouldn't lend me the money on a Prof Studies Loan because it is about 5 years since I left Uni - the f**king idiots didn't even know their own product range - kept refering to their "manual"!!!!!!

Wouldn't touch 'em with a barge pole.

When I argued the case the chap I saw he said he had checked with his "Central Lending Unit" and I didn't qualify.

PFO

[Mr Benn]

Wow! Can't believe all the problems you guys are having. I have taken out 2 CDLs in the past, one I paid back at the end of the course by getting a lower interest loan and paying back the £8k, thus giving myself two years of 0% interest payments. Both times the loan was through the Co-op in Skelmersdale. Of course, you have to provide a bit of info for them. I just sent a letter in with my application explaining what I was doing, what I would end up qualified for, etc. Of course, you can bend the truth a little. If you are doing your ATPLs or CPL then say that you are doing an Airline Pilot Licence. They don't know you also need an IR and hours and flying training. It looks really good. Then mention in the letter that you airline pilots generally start on salaries of around £35k+ (don't mention turbo prop FOs get a lot less).
Explain why you need to borrow the money (difficult if you already have a huge salary and own a house).
Also, check out your credit rating before applying. And always tell the bank about any CCJs.
That is it!
Both times I just sent the forms and letters and told them I needed the money fairly quickly, and within about 2 weeks, new account set up and money in it.
I like the sound of the HSBC one too, but would be worth getting the CDL first then paying it back in full before the first repayment is due, by using HSBC money.
Another tip is to make your living costs (full time course), books, travel costs, licence fees, exam fees, etc. as high as possible as these are paid direct to you. You can only claim for 80% of course fee so if you have say £3000 of living costs, etc. then you'll easily make the £5000 for the course cost. Don't say the course cost is ridiculously high or they'll want to know how you are funding it.
Worth adding in the letter to the bank that you have saved a little money already to pay the remainder of the course fee.
Easy.
Boy, I hope you guys don't have this sort of problem with job applications.

[clear prop!!!]

Just popped back to see how the thread was progressing, and the predictable prevails!!

When will you guys realise that the World does not owe you a living. Banks are Banks and they have their rules and you will not change them. This whole aviation thing is about working the system and not about trying to change it. There are lots and lots of little people out there with their rule books… in Banks ... in the CAA etc etc. You will NOT change them.

You have been given chapter and verse about CDL application, on this site both by me and by others, yet you still continue as if you know better than those who have been there before you.

If you think getting a CDL is hard, you are in for a big disappointment when you find out what comes next.

If you want to get on in this industry, play the system, it stinks but you won’t break it!

There is a shed load of information here, which is freely given by those who now have a nice and very expensive blue plastic folder with the words ‘JAA Commercial Pilots Licence’ in gold letters on it. Listen to them and save yourselves a load of grief!

[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: clear prop!!! ]

[Wor]

Hi all

Might seem obvious but have you asked if you can meet someone face to face at your local branch, as the lovely boys and girls on the phone don't have the power to say 'yes' if a computer shows you to be a 'no'........ Old style banking here we come, they may well know ways round the system. It helps if you have a good history with them,obviously, but definitely a better shot than companing that the system doesn't work

;) Wor

[Blindside]

I'm amazed that any bank would lend £8-£50k to a 19 yr old. I had difficulty getting a £500 student overdraft at that age. Banks have a responsibility to the applicant as well as to their shareholders.

Instant gratification is all very well but you could end up financially crippled for the rest of your life.

Why would you want to saddle yourself with that level of debt when you can apply to sponsorships??

What is wrong with the traditional way of getting money ie working for it? Surely 1-5 years of applying to sponsorships whilst working would enable you to save some money, should your applications prove to be unsuccessful.

Best regards

It's happening - I'm turning into my dad!!

[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Blindside ]

[Blackshirt]

It's true that no one owes you anything, and that the only way to get through life is to play the system.

Look at John Major if you want an example of what can be achieved by a man of little discernible talent:

The man who ran away from the circus to join a firm of Charted Accountants. No charisma. A mediocre public speaker at very best. No academic qualifications. The greyest little man one could imagine. What happened? He kept his head down, worked hard and pushed forward at every stage of his political career.

Result: a man who when from being a dullard to being a dullard who also was British Prime Minster.

Anyway, back to money matters.

After calling the banks a bunch of cock suckers in my last posting, I'd like to sing HSBC's praises…

Popped in HSBC Kidlington branch. Very helpful. Knew all about Professional Studies Loan. Surprisingly knowledgeable about flight training in general, for example, the Doris whom I spoke to even knew what an MCC Certificate was - maybe because of proximity to OATS??

Anyway, £12,000 loan sorted in short order at a lower interest rate than a CDL.

Why would you bother with a CDL? High interest rate limited borrowing amount, etc - plus from what I hear, you have to jump through hoops to get one anyway.

Before you ask, no, I'm not training at OATS…they really are a bunch of co.. su….. [before I get any angry responses….at least the Marketing Dept are, I'm sure all the instructors and everyone else are fine]