Naval Vessels and Suez Canal

[tony draper]

Read on another website that six of our finest Gray Funnel line are being sent east.
Do naval vessels transit the Suez Canal or head round the Cape?.
It strikes Draper being of a somewhat Macheavelian turn of mind that the Cana land vessels transiting same, would be a relativley easy target for those wishing us ill.
Charter a couple of old cargo hulls, send one ahead of the fleet into the canal, one astern ,tootle thru the canal for a few hours then open sea cocks, white duster effectivly stuck for the duration.
Send em round the Cape I say, let the lads get some sea time in. :rolleyes:

[rivetjoint]

I remember photos of US carriers going through the Canal during Desert Shield, so its physically possible and on my map looks the best route.

[tony draper]

Oh Drapes knows its possible, Drapes often encountered the Royal Navy in the Canal in his trips thru same in the sixties.
They tended to tie up and wait for a Red Duster to pass, hail same and ask directions. ;)
One was questioning the wisdom of such a route at this time.

[Man-on-the-fence]

As an aside

Can the Carriers (either US or British) launch aircraft whilst transitting the Canal. Or for that matter are they allowed to.

I know that there is the small matter of turning the carrier into the wind etc but all things being equal....

Oh and I havent forgotten the French carriers I just chose to ignore them.:D

[A Civilian]

They wouldnt be going fast enough, and yes they wouldnt be able to turn into the wind.

Hey dont mock the french CdG. For all its faults it still good looking :)

[MarkD]

drapes,

if you sent them round the Cape it would surely be refit time by the time they got to the Gulf? :D :D

[Jimlad]

no it couldnt happen. There is no way that it could be done due to the way that traffic passes through the Suez canal.
Furthermore as has been seen in photos in the open press, lots of extra guns get manned at the time of transit, so no fears about force protection.

[tony draper]

Guns are indeed a fine deterant against a foe that values his life.

[Jimlad]

they are also useful at blowing small boats up full of foes who dont value their life:p

[tony draper]

It is also surrounded by many fine sand dunes as Drapes recals, just peachy for hiding behind with a few grenade launchers, especialy as the US navy seem to be fond of leaving those fast pointy things lining the deck to impress the natives.

[Nozzles]

It is indeed technically feasible for the CVS to launch all her embarked types whilst in the canal-the ship needs to be neither steaming nor facing into wind. However, it is not done in peacetime due to political sensitivities. There are, of course, significant limitations. The wind needs to be within deck operating limits (tailwind, pure crosswind and crosswind causing turbulence off the superstructure). Fixed wing launch payload decreases as the wind-over-the-deck reduces.

Both fixed and rotary wing crews regularly practice landings facing any-which-way with the ship either stationary or steaming out of wind.

[rivetjoint]

As the canal doesn't go down to the ocean bed and physically split the two countries either side up, the canal must belong to one of the countries and be their land?

[tony draper]

Due to the interference of our cousins across the pond,Mr Rivit, the canal now belongs to Egypt.
The French built it, we fiddled them out of it fair and square, then that scoundrel Nasser nationalised it. ;)

[pzu]

Tony - If we are going back to '56, and yes I suffered from Nasser - having to stand on the Tarmac for the odd hour or two whilst he decided if we could reboard our BOAC DC4M Argonaut back to Keenya (sic), then our American cousins - Eisenhour & John Foster Dulles have a lot to answer for - if they had had Kennedy's balls then the 'Cold War' & the 'Winds of Change' could well have been different!!!!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[rivetjoint]

So all Saddam has to do is get Egypt on his side and have Chief Keeper of the Locks say "sorry, not today thank you" when the US Navy arrive at entrance A and expect to leave out of exit B?

[tony draper]

Wasn't just thinking of Saddam,almost everybody with a beard out there don't like us.
Now Drapes knows the canal has been widened a tad since young Drapes sailed up and down it, but one could probably still stand on the bank and hit you in the head with a thrown rock.
One other piece of advice, under no circumstances buy a watch in Port Said.

[Tourist]

Ah Drapes, but wouldnt said thrown rock be a bloody good excuse to go and have another go at taking the canal back. You never know, perhaps the US would back us this time in exchange for us backing their latest empire building excursion.;)

[BLW Skylark 4]

Why, the "Rolex" watches I bought in Port Said from 'Jock McGregor of Aberdeen - the only Scottish Fez wearing Arab I have ever seen are still keeping good time all those years later......!!

Cant comment on rock throwing though...!

[steamchicken]

Possibly this is why - according to a pal who was there not long ago - the canal roads are constantly full of Hosni Mubarak's vicious-bastard (they have a reputation for putting electrodes on people they suspect of Islamist sympathising) State Security Police, looking for subversive characters among the dunes..

[BoeingMEL]

Tony D raises an important issue. With sabre rattling in North Korea and the inevitable and imminent hostility in/around Iraq, it would be unwise to believe that the next conflict will be conducted under Marquis of Queensbury Rules. Is the canal of great stratagic importance? Of course! Could it be annexed without too much bloodshed or public outcry? Quite possibly. Would the good guys happily take the scenic route indefinitely? I don't think so!! God Bless you all!

[timzsta]

I went through the Suez Canal on several occasions during my time in the Royal Navy, where I was an Officer of the Watch amongst other things. I can assure you it is not in the national interest of the Egyptians to allow a terrorist act to be commited against any ship, merchant or military. The resulting loss of income as the canal in boycotted would severly damage the Egyptian economy, so they take security of transiting vessels very seriously.

I went through the Suez on HMS Illustrious about a month after 9/11 with several other warships from the RN on the way out to a major exercise in Oman. I can assure you we were at a very high alert state, the upper decks were bristling with weaponry. We also went last in the convoy (warships usually led the convoy) so as to have about 40 minesweepers infront of us! And I am sure when Ark Royal goes through with her task group in due course she will do the same. Going through at night can also be an advantage when our thermal imaging cameras off course come into their own.

Once clear of the canal in still in the relatively cramped confines of the Gulf of Suez heading south speed is out greatest ally. When we were going full pelt at 30 knots its very hard for even a small high speed boat to get in close enough to you to do some damage. Also you are in with all the merchant traffic in some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world so matey boy in his small inflatable with an rpg runs a serious risk of geting run over by a 100,000 tonne container ship going at 25 knots. (I have overtaken one of these with a distance between us of only 200-300 yards (so tight and busy are the shipping lanes) - it takes balls in several thousand tonnes of Her Majesty's property with 50,000shp coming from the engine room - let alone in a dinghy with a 25hp yamaha outboard! So its not as risky as you think, or rather there are means available to reduce the risk.

I just applied compasses to atlas, supposing the Suez canal was not an option. A USN nuclear powered carrier steaming full pelt at a conservative 35 knots could still make it from Gibraltar to the Straits of Hormuz via the Cape of Good Hope in 12 days (vice 7 via the Suez), so even ir Mr Husseins buddies close the canal, the bombs will arrive less than a week later than he had planned!

[HAL Pilot]

An earlier post asked if a carrier could launch aircraft in the canal. The answer is yes, the carrier I was on launched 2 FA-18s, an E-2 and a S-3 (tanker) in response to a possible threat during one of our transits.