SAR Downunder

[Huron Topp]

Just interested in finding out what peoples opinions are on air search & rescue setup in Oz. Is it adequate, enough resources, training etc.

[Huron Topp]

Hey FD,

I've become pretty familiar with the helicopter SAR in Oz over the past year, but I have been a little shocked at the lack of fixed wing assets. To my knowledge, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are only 2 dedicated FW aircraft, and both in the south-east(one with GFS and one with the Australian Aerial Patrol). Coast Watch, I assume, is also involved at times, as is the Air Force P-3s, but there seems to be no dedicated resources anywhere inland?

The reason I'm asking, is that I'll be headed that way around March and working with one of the helo training outfits and the possibility exists that operations may expand to include FW. Does AUSSAR have actual training programs for some of the volunteer FW gangs, specifically in the Search part of SAR? If not, does anyone feel that such training needs to be standardised and expanded? If so, would the folk involved be open to the experience (actual and training) of a foreign-type dude like myself? Just so happens I have a stack of training materials about 3 feet high that should really be put to some good use.:cool:

[Tinstaafl]

A number of Oz operators scattered around the country are Designated Civil SAR Organisations. Every 6 months or so there is a weekend of training, dropping rafts, heliboxes etc etc.

More training would improve performance, general preparedness etc but who's going to fund it?

Each operator maintains a store of equipment (usually in association with the State Emergency Service).

I enjoyed it. It took a fair amount of concentration to drop accurately.

Glad no-one suffered sufficient misfortune that my services would have been needed.

[Huron Topp]

Is AUSSAR not the org with full responsibility for SAR in Oz? If so, it is up to them to provide enough training funds whether it be for ground, sea or air SAR. That responsibility comes from international conventions.

Here in Canada, SAR falls under the responsibility of National Defence and Coast Guard. Along with these full-time boys are the Coast Guard Auxiliary and Civil Air Search and Rescue Association. Both receive extensive funding through National Defence and the National Search & Rescue Secretariat.

I can't speak on currency training with the CGAux, but CASARA train virtually every weekend or two, with at least 2 full-blown Sarex's every year in each region.

Seems from what you say, that either the Oz government is not allocating enough SAR funds, or that Aussar isn't using those funds properly.:confused:

[megle2]

Tinstaafl

During the period that you were doing your sar drop training / operations how often did you ( and fellow pilots ) carry out emergency procedures such as raft / jacket / sea survival ect ?

Did you go to the local pool and who did the instructing ?

I am curious why present drop crews don't seem to do this anymore!

[Icarus2001]

Huron Topp, there is a third full-time fixed wing aircraft at Cairns I believe.

http://www.amsa.gov.au/amsa/sar.htm

[Screw Jac]

I'll tread carefully.

A few years ago a friend of mine was killed south of Kulgera in a helicopter crash. Whilst I'm not critical of the efforts expended by those in AUSSAR, I found that like in most situations, depsite our best efforts chaos is the initial overriding force.

Unfortunately in a SAR environment this can mean the difference, which was not relevant in this case. Nonetheless assets were bought to bear and a search undertaken. Initially we just got out there and flew. By the next morning GPS lat and londs were available to more accuratelty search the allocated grids. It took nearly three days to find the wreck. It was on track, burned out and it appeared the crew did not survive the impact.

It taught me something very important. Pilots in remote areas cant rely on ELT's in the aircraft (it didnt go off) and must plan on susrviving for at least a couple of days. In trying to put together something positive from my little loss, I built a survival kit,

This thing goes in the plane with my Nav bag headsets and lunch box!

By the way Ive been here in the middle for five years, never heard of training for SAR work through any operator!:eek:

[Huron Topp]

Hmmm...no doubt what I'm about to say will sound critical, but its not meant to be...at least not to aircrews, anyway.;)

Seems to me that what you've got is organized confusion, also known as screwing the pooch. Too many jurisdictions and not enough coordination. Obviously, not being there, this is just my point of view. But my experience in SAR over here, is one of the reasons why I've been asked to head Downunder.

I'm well aware of the incredible job that the helo rescue services provide. From what I've seen, its probably the best system in the world. But rescue is only part of SAR. From the very onset of a missing aircraft or ship, organization is of the utmost importance. We in Canada learned that the hard way. Although SAR is the primary responsibility of the Air Force, shrinking budgets required extra trained assets. Thats where CASARA came into being. Volunteer crews are trained to the same standard as their military counterparts, although the volunteers don't get to fly as much. CASARA members can even be trained as Search Masters, so the possibility exists that a "military" search is conducted under the supervision of a civvy.

Most importantly is crew composition: 1 pilot, 1 navigator and 2 spotters are the absolute minimum. The pilot flies and does lookout, the nav does ALL of the nav work(and most of the radio work), and the spotters sole responsibility is looking for the target.

I guess the big question is whether you guys feel that the current setup in Oz is adequate, and if not, would you be interested in creating a system that is?

Screw Jac, you might find it better to make a survival vest, as opposed to a kit. A vest should carry the essentials, while a kit can carry extra goodies. Fact is, if you survive a crash, its always better to have the essentials on your body. An incredible resource on the net can be found at http://www.equipped.com/avsrvtoc.htm.

[Shepherd]

Many years ago a company called "National Safety Council - Australia" (if my memory serves me well) operated with significant Government funding to provide SAR assetts and operators from a base in Sale, Gippsland Victoria. NSCA operated fixed and rotary wing acft as well as providing search co-ordinators and everything from refuel bladders to firefighting gear. Sadly, the economics didn't work and the CEO (Fredrickson, I think) took his own life after the fiscal arithmetic didn't add up.
I have been involved in SAR as a volunteer (Coastguard, Sea Rescue, State Emergency Services) and through the Military and Civil aviation for most of my adult life. There is no doubt that dedicated SAR response organisations are more highly skilled than the supplementary groups called upon to assist. The bottom line will allways be the almighty dollar and the size (geographical and population) and remoteness of this country will make it impossible to have sufficient assetts where they are needed at all times. The end result is that AUSSAR calls upon (within reason) whatever and whoever is available at the SAR location and backs them up with more appropriate aircraft and operators ASAP. I believe that AUSSAR performs well in the areas of search planning and coordination but certainly agree that the availability of appropriate assetts and trained and practiced operators sometimes hampers their initial searches. Before the centralisation of the SAR rsponsibility to Canberra the training of aviation co-ordinators, observers and crews was conducted at a local level by the civil aviation authority specialist who travelled around teaching and training: I presume this still occurs but to what extent I do not know. I suggest that you contact AUSSAR in Canberra for details.
I realise that you probably have an ulterior (business) motive for your questions and wish you luck.

[Tinstaafl]

I think more training would have been beneficial but still I pose my earlier question: Who pays?

HT, saying that AUSSAR is responsible for paying doesn't solve the question. It only transfers it up the line. In which case the question becomes: "Who pays for AUSSAR?"

That makes it a matter for governmental budgetary priorities.

As I understand it, AUSSAR payed for our initial & recurrent training as well as meeting the bill for any callout.

[Pseudonymn]

Originally posted by Shepherd:
I have been involved in SAR as a volunteer (Coastguard, Sea Rescue, State Emergency Services)

Shepherd, what Flotilla/s of Coast Guard were you with and when?

If you don't wish to reply in public, feel free to PM me.

[Zarg]

Huron Topp: Not quite sure where you are coming from, here. Why have you been “asked to head Downunder” and who is “sending” you?

You said, “Seems to me that what you’ve got is organised confusion, also known as screwing the pooch. Too many jurisdictions and not enough coordination.” Not so, my friend!

AusSAR is run from a centralised Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC) based in Canberra and manned 24/7 by qualified SAR staff, ex fixed wing and helicopter aircrew, Air Traffic Controllers and master mariners.

The RCC is a joint Marine/Aviation facility tasked to conform with ICAO and SOLAS SAR conventions and funded by the taxpayer. AusSAR does not have it’s own search platforms, but hires SAR assets as required and provides pilot, dropmaster and observer training throughout the country on a regular basis. The military looks after its own SAR requirements and AusSAR will use Military assets ONLY when the task is beyond civil resources. Mainly RAAF P3 and C130 aircraft and RAN S70 helos. The Army is not really interested in Civil SAR. Coastwatch aircraft are used extensively on an ad hoc basis but are not SAR trained or drop capable.

There are 32 trained fixed wing Search and Rescue Units (SRUs) and 16 rotary SRUs trained to varying degrees of ability around the country with three dedicated fixed wing assets as mentioned. They are trained in supply dropping, DF homing, carriage of airborne observers and search pattern flying. AusSAR retains four SAR pilots to conduct regular training at Hobart, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth. Crew and Observer training is conducted on a regular basis using AusSAR instructors and utilising members of the various State Emergency Services (SES) volunteers.

AusSAR uses EMS helicopters for beacon homing, MEDEVAC, search and rescue missions and many use standard SAR practices as formulated by AusSAR with some training being provided by AusSAR as mentioned above.

Search planning is conducted from the RCC and a Forward Field Base (FFB) may be set up and manned by AusSAR staff if required. Modern computerised tools are used to provide state of the art GPS briefings etc. AusSAR liaises very closely with State Police and Volunteer Marine Rescue (VMR) units.

Screwjac: we have come a long way since that unfortunate helicopter crash you mention. I concur with Huron: wear your survival gear on you and include a PLB. Switlik do a very good pilot vest in this regard. :)

Tinstaafl: Who pays? You, the taxpayer, that’s who! :) Is it enough? It’s NEVER enough but it is adequate to do the job given our population, climate and geography.

Flungdungs comments are generally valid!

Icarus 2001: I am so happy that your belief is vindicated!! :D


Huron Topp: e-mail me if you want some more info as I do have contacts in AusSAR and I would hate to see you going off half cocked! :)

[megle2]

Zarg,

I know the SRU's receive regular training for SAR procedures and that they achieve a high standard.

What I would like to know is what training, if any, do the fixed wing SRU flight members receive for their own emergency training in case they have to ditch as they do fly around at less than 500 feet at times in challenging weather.

Additionally do their volunteer crew members from the SES ( or where ever ) ie the Dropmaster ect, have any training for their own personal safety?

[Zarg]

megle2

Crew safety training is an important part of SRU SAR training and is covered quite comprehensibly in the SAR Manual for SAR unit Pilots and Dropmasters. Dropping heights are typically 150AMSL for PADS and 200AMSL for SRS. Search heights are normally flown between 500 and 1500 AMSL/AGL depending on the target.

Pool training and liferaft use was part of the training for aircrew but I believe that this is no longer the case.

Airborne Observers are normally provided by SES and are sometimes trained in house by local instructors based on the AusSAR syllabus. Ideally, each search aircraft will have one rated Observer Leader to supervise up to 4 or 5 Observers depending on the availability, task or aircraft type.

Hope this helps! :)

[Screw Jac]

Zarg,

Was not having a shot at AUSSAR or anybody involved in the industry.

I do not beleive that the accident I referred to was survivable. Inevertibly chaos is the initial situation we are faced with. Isaw AUSSAR gear up after the first day producing grid squares with lat long to aid searching for those lucky enough to have GPS. Fuel and food was provided for the seachers and everybody did the best they could! The AUSSAR guys even were concerned as to the fatigue of the pilots flying!

The point of my post was that it got me thinking about survival out in the remote desert, gotta work on three days at least was how I felt. Better to have to much stuff than not enough. As a result of this thread I actually opened one, mentioning the contents of my Survival kit, inviting comment.....

This is tiger country out here, I have been here for five years and seen many a pilot rely on aircraft ELT and a litre bottle of water!
:eek:

[767Junkie]

Hi Guys, i am a AUSSAR Trained Dropmaster working out of Perth. We were recently called to the big search off the coast of Esperence (Ciaguna is were we located the wreckage). We left thursday evening and got home sunday night.. We stayed in Esperence & Forrest and EVERYONE involved really deserved a congratulations for their efforts.

However AUSSAR did a FANTASTIC Job, Nothing was missed, from fuel for both the Craft & Personnel to our accomodation and phone calls to family members. The work that they put in was huge. We were the only Drop Capable & Ready Aircraft in the search and were carrying PADS units with liferafts & 2 heliboxes.

We also droped SAR DATUM Boues so that AUSSAR could track the drift and calcualte proper Search Areas. Nothing was to much for AUSSAR, they had JET A 1 trucked into Ciaguna for the Chopper & also for a few Turbine Aircraft (one poor fellow from Adl had to fully fuel a Conquest with a Hand Pump :-) NOT HAPPY JAN :-) ) But yeah the work that AUSSAR do is incrediable.

It really opened my eyes to what it is like out their and the importance of proper preperation.

See Ya Guys

[hurlingham]

Screw Jac

You say you have never seen any training by AUSSaR in the Centre.

NT Police Air Wing and Rural Helicopters are both Civil Sar Units and along with the NTES receive regular training from AUSSaR.

Other operators have been asked to train but it always seems too hard.

AUSSaR did a great job with the chopper you refer to, It was very difficult to spot, and had been flown over at least twice prior to being located. There was no way it was survivable, ELT,s burn well with a lot of fuel around.

[megle2]

Me again

My drift is I can't understand why Aussar with all the resources ect at their fingertips, don't demand that the SRU ( especially the GA SRU ) pilots and crew are properly trained in their own safety and kept current!

We see that the flight crews and probably the SRU SES passengers are no longer required to do any emergency training for their own survival.

They could be faced with the situation of suddenly being in the water themselves without any experience of inflating rafts / jackets and all the other associated survival tasks required.

Does anybody else think that Aussar should examine this aspect??

To me its a dangerous and irresponsible oversight!

Of course the GA SRU should also be required to undertake the training as part of their AOC.

This is a pilot forum and its pilots / crew safety I'm talking about!

[Screw Jac]

Well Ill talk to Rural Helicopters and the NT polairwing and see if we cant get some other operators in there to give a hand just in case the fit hits the shan.....

I was there at the search, I know that it was flown over twice and burned beyond recognition. It was even difficult to see from the ground.

I wish to restate I'm not having a shot at AUSSAR, I merely learned that survival is very difficult out here (Central Australia) too many pilots take it for granted that the fan or fans up front keep running!

If anybody cares to look I posted a bit on remote area survival regarding the contents of my survival kit that was built after this accident.......:eek:

AM NOT HAVING A CHEAP SHOT AT AUSSAR they did an excellent job, by definition it takes awhile to bring resources to bear in remote areas, SO MY MESSAGE IS TO LEARN TO SURVIVE until the SAR machine comes and gets you!

[767Junkie]

As a Tier 2 SRU (24/7 AS long as CREW & CRAFT avail) we recieve 8 hrs of training every 4 months. This involves operating the PADS units, Heli Boxes & Smoke markers. We are also booked for a Wet Session to play around in a Life Raft & In The Jackets.

Our Initial Induction was 3 days, 1 1/2 of theory and the rest practical. This involved a heap of survival stuff for us, the crews. Also pre departure we are all involved in a crew brief each memeber stating wat they will do/ bring in the event of an emergency.

The problem with the training (as we found in the esperence search) is that their is no way that Aussar can prepare you fully for the REAL thing. As we found out. 3.5 days in a small A/C with all our supplies coming from a small backpack and the aircraft full of gear, food ect. It gets very cramped, and uncomfortable. And those BLOODY WHITECAPS. they are the most decieveing things..

Night Guys

[Zarg]

Screwjac:

In NO WAY did I see your comments as having a go at AusSAR! :)

No offence seen and none taken, mate!

It is good to see a lively debate on this subject and I recommend that all read your thread started in the GA forum on Outback Survival!