View Full Version : DJ Starts Cbr-Syd!

18th Dec 2002, 21:19
18th December 2002


Virgin Blue has announced it will launch double daily direct flights between Canberra and Sydney from April 28, as the first new domestic route for the carrier in 2003.

The low fare airline will take delivery of more brand new aircraft in 2003 and will direct one of these on to the new Sydney-Canberra route.

Chief Executive Brett Godfrey said, “The Canberra-Sydney route was the only remaining top 20 Australian domestic route not serviced by Virgin Blue and travellers were therefore missing out on our great low fares and sensational service.”

The recent move to larger terminal facilities at Sydney airport has paved the way for new flights in and out of the New South Wales capital and the airline is fulfilling its promise of adding more services and low fares now that it has room to grow.

Virgin Blue has designed its Canberra-Sydney schedule to meet the needs of business and Government travellers commuting in either direction between the two cities.

To ensure the success of the route, the airline will continue to lobby the Government for fair treatment in ensuring taxpayers money isn’t wasted on bloated Federal travel budgets.

“Up until now, the travel policy of most Commonwealth departments has been to basically write Qantas an open cheque. Clearly taxpayers expect the Federal Government to take advantage of the same sort of cost savings that true competition is bringing to the private sector.

It’s really up to the Government now to decide if they truly support competition, and if they do, we will certainly add more flights to Canberra”, Brett Godfrey promised.

Canberra based travellers will be able to take advantage of a convenient morning departure at 8.30am with a late afternoon return at 4.30pm.

In addition, ACT Guests will be able to take advantage of more connections via Sydney to Brisbane, Cairns, Coffs Harbour, the Gold Coast and the Sunshine Coast.

Sydney based travellers will be able to make the most of their business day in Canberra with an early morning flight to Canberra at 7.10am and a convenient return flight arriving home in time for dinner at 6.40pm.

“The twice daily service will also mean affordable travel for those who up until now had to either pay through the nose or drive between Sydney and Canberra. Now, anybody, not just the well-to-do, can afford to fly to Canberra to lobby their cause”, finished Brett Godfrey.

Virgin Blue will offer a $49* one-way launch fare special on sale from today until 31 December for travel between 28 April 2003 and 25 October 2003.

Everyday low fares will start from $75* one-way on the net with a Fully Flexible fare of $165 one-way on the net, 28% less than Qantas’ Fully Flexible fare of $228 one-way.

* All fares include the passenger ticket levy, GST, airport charges and the global security charge and are for flights booked on the Internet. $10 more by phone.

DJ930 7:10am 8:00am Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
DJ938 4:30pm 5:20pm Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

DJ931 8:30am 9:15am Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
DJ939 5:55pm 6:40pm Y Y Y Y Y Y Y


18th Dec 2002, 22:27
Yes, it's great news.

The Riddler
18th Dec 2002, 22:45
.“Up until now, the travel policy of most Commonwealth departments has been to basically write Qantas an open cheque. Clearly taxpayers expect the Federal Government to take advantage of the same sort of cost savings that true competition is bringing to the private sector.
It’s really up to the Government now to decide if they truly support competition, and if they do, we will certainly add more flights to Canberra”, Brett Godfrey promised.

Why does DJ continue to use "for the good of the Aust. public" as an excuse to further its network and hence profits.

Mr Godfrey, Qantas already has competition on this route in the form of REX. The CBR - SYD shuttle has been traditionally (Kendell) one of their strongest routes. REX offers more flights than just 2 with a level of service at least matching if not exceeding DJ.

Rubber Chicken
18th Dec 2002, 23:08
Lets see now, 34 seat Turbo prop or a 180 seat jet. Not to hard to figure out. Given the option I am sure most people would choose the 34 seat Turpo prop. NOT!

19th Dec 2002, 01:04
Could i have fries with my Mc Rubber Chicken burger ? :D

19th Dec 2002, 06:35
If I read the schedule correct, 51 mins flight time for the 73. That equates to a ground speed of about 150 kts. The jet must be taking a really circuietous route. Hell I've done it in 50 mins flat in a Duchess.

Is it true that the SAAB would get more direct tracking than a Jet??

Frequency counts here, 13 + each way rather that 2.

Hugh Jarse
19th Dec 2002, 07:49
“Up until now, the travel policy of most Commonwealth departments has been to basically write Qantas an open cheque. Clearly taxpayers expect the Federal Government to take advantage of the same sort of cost savings that true competition is bringing to the private sector".

What a load of codswallop.

It’s really up to the Government now to decide if they truly support competition, and if they do, we will certainly add more flights to Canberra”, Brett Godfrey promised.

Obviously, somebody hasn't been around the aviation industry long enough to realise that the Government travel contract was won by a process called competitive tendering, not by open cheque writing.

When the contract goes to tender, the Government will choose the most competitive tender, regardless of what the d!ckhead spin doctors feed the media.

Some of us have been around enough to see the too-ing and fro-ing between AN and QF in the past with contracts.

The fact of the matter is that if DJ wants to get the government contract they will have to submit a competitive and successful tender when the time comes. They won't win the contract by belly aching to the media with the worn out "underdog" whine...................

Sperm Bank
19th Dec 2002, 09:08
I agree Jarse. I work for the guy and it sometimes makes you cringe at the comments he comes out with. The marketing department obviously think there is merit in that type of approach.

Ozgrade. We do SYD to MEL in 55 mins so not too sure why it is going to take us only 4 mins less to do SYD- CBR. The times quoted are usually chock to chock, not flight time.

20th Dec 2002, 00:18
Both QF and in the past AN have shown a timetable schedule of 50 min. I guess it allows for any potential ATC delays. Actual flying time can be half that on occasions.

Hugh Jarse
20th Dec 2002, 04:32
55 mins is a more realistic figure YSCB-YSSY, allowing for Sydney ATC and getting "Maestroed". :mad:

Takeoff RWY 35 at YSCB, hold at wherever, overfly for 16L/34R could realistically take 55 mins block time.

At least on-time performance will be good (and achievable by the crews) ;)

20th Dec 2002, 05:05
My last SYD-CBR in a DH3 was 37 minutes in the air and CBR-SYD in a DH3 was 39 minutes, both sceduled at 55 minutes. As mentioned, the greater scheduled times just there to cover any delays that might be incured.

Rubber Chicken
I'm obviously NOT "most people" because I WOULD choose the 34 seat Turbo prop (wether it be a DH8 or SF3) over the Boeing 737 on the SYD-CBR route and day even if it did cost more, cause they are alot more fun to fly on :D but thats just me :).

frank Borman
21st Dec 2002, 02:47
Pa31p, alot of people would agree with you.

You get a Saab 340B or a Dash 300, have 20-30kts tailwind which is common on CBR-SYD, then you get a RIVET 8 into Sydney, which can happen these days and you have an equally short flight. Even going via Bindook I've seen flight times of 35 minutes on some days.

Coming the other way from SYD-CBR. 737 takes off, goes via the gong, Saab340/Dash gets direct CORDO, then DCT CBR, lands on RWY 30 at CBR while 737 gets vectored due to noise abatement south of Queanbeyan for runway 35. This does happen, trust me, a jet between SYD and CBR has no time advantage most times.

Look, what VB does will not harm REX. If VB want to get as big as they are saying, then they will need regional feed from REX etc. The doomsdayers will predict a REX failure over this, but realise REX does more than one run. REX is getting a very good name in CBR, they have stitched up contracts, they have alot of return business, sure alot of flights are not full as they were in the days of KD doing the shuttle for AN, but it is the load over the whole network that is important, and it is improving regardless of what you hear.

Finally, the staff at REX will ensure it will succeed. You don't go through what they have gone through and not come out of it more determined to make a future for yourself in a new airline. Give them a fair go, there is room in this country for a second big regional airline, the company has and is still forged on the philosophies and the hard work of the Kendell/Hazelton families, the staff don't forget that in their every day duties, and thats what will make REX succeed.

21st Dec 2002, 04:11
Sikkum Rex.......and draw blood from the Virgin!

The Riddler
21st Dec 2002, 07:57
In the good old days a KD CRJ recorded CBR-SYD, wheels to wheels, in 26mins. :cool:

How's it Hanging
21st Dec 2002, 07:58
More important on the Sydney Canberra run which most of you seem to overlook is why do Qantas run so many Dash 8's to Canberra.
The reason is that a 737 needs to be 120% full to break even on the route. Even with Virgin's lower costs you would not make money even if you were full every sector, and with the fares being advertised they are obviously just doing something with the aircraft between other flights.
Qantas only put the jets on a few times a day to fulfil the need to have some business class seats on the route. Ansett were the same, so Virgin will probably never expand much to Canberra from Sydney unless they have some spare money to lose.

PS. I think 30 minutes, 22 seconds is the quickest I have seen CB-SY in a DHC8-200, with a landing on 34L!

21st Dec 2002, 11:03
Rubber Chook,

a small number of people may choose a 737 over a SAAB or Dash but mark my lambs, off gate to on gate times over such a short sector as this will be near enough even. It will all boil down to price, schedule and service (in that order) for the uncontracted man on the street.:D

21st Dec 2002, 23:38
Yes, Virgin doing the route is more about having a complete network and getting government business than making massive profits. They are now at a critical mass that they can afford to do such things methinks. And of course CBR-SYD opens up numerous connecting flight possibilities.

Re: Rex, I think it will make it tough, but the quality of their service will ensure they keep the majority of their customers. Currently they offer by far the best service on SYD-CBR. Hopefully they will someday come to some arrangement with Virgin. By now they must realise that hanging out for Singapore Airlines is more and more simply a pipe dream.

MIss Behaviour
22nd Dec 2002, 04:27
So does this mean we'll see a new DJ advert with little Johnny Howard ditching the Falcon for a 737.

More importantly will the flight time be sufficient for the hosties to
paint his face. Pity Cheryl's not still around the traps, that would be a sight to behold.

Wonder how the pollies will go putting their hands in their own pockets for the DJ grub en-route. They might have to start putting doggy bags in the Parliamentary dining room! ;) ;)

22nd Dec 2002, 08:50
Sorry to upset you Missy B. but John Howard already has 737's at his disposal. :D

27th Dec 2002, 09:22
The formula is simple folks. No business class = no politicians and public servants. As an ex industry employee I can still hear the whinges from some of the top taxpayer funded pax , when AN removed hot lunches from their SYD-CBR flights.

The pollies may talk up the virgin entry , but none of them will fly them.

28th Dec 2002, 04:39
How is DJ going on the MEL - CBR route?

28th Dec 2002, 05:04
Rumour, DJ commences a weekly service Syd-Ppp 8April 2003,then increasing to 3 a week if supported.

28th Dec 2002, 05:24
Where abouts is Ppp?

28th Dec 2002, 05:35
Ppp...Proserpine (Whitsunday)

29th Dec 2002, 05:30
I'd love to see the tantrums thrown when a pollie misses his 8.30am flight out of Canberra, only to be told that the next VB flight is in 8 1/2 hours.

Being a fly on the wall certainly has it's merits.


3rd Jan 2003, 01:38
They'll only miss it once:p

3rd Jan 2003, 02:08
Hi guys,
As a regualr cabin crew forum contributor I have been very interested in the comments on the predicted success of this sector for DJ.

Here here ...to all those who have payed Rex compliments for their persistence and loyalty to regional air services for Australia!. yes the attitudes of it's staff (and frequency of flights)are what will get them the brownie points with business travellers at the end of the day. Lets face it (I flew this route many many times as cabin crew in the 'good old days' and our clientele were regulars) who loved to see a familar smiling genuine human being (f/a's and tech crew) greet them on the tarmac or the top of the a/c stairs with a can-do and warm, friendly approach. Not to mention the green tag hand luggage service for which KD was renowned for .
It's up to individual at the end of the day, but i know in the rush rush life of the average business traveller I would like to be treated with some personalised service and made to feel valued as a customer ,rather hearded on to a 737 where i wolud have to pay for a cup of coffee or tea or something to eat in ex amount of minutes.
Rex has kept if not imporved the standard of it's catering on this sector and yes it's delivered with a an attitude that as a passenger you will remember favourably. The turmoil most of
these employees have been through has ensured a work ethic like no other- that is they appreciate their jobs in Austrlian avaition at this incredibly vulnerable time in the industry, and will make this company suceed no matter what. Any one who went thru the KD/hazelton administration period will appreciate what I am saying !
If an airline can win the hearts of corporate flyers and other clientele I belive that Rex will ccome out on top! Virgin may still have a long way to go
If convenience and time is a factor (as discussed)well there's not that much difference.

Hugh Jarse
3rd Jan 2003, 08:08
I agree wholeheartedly with your philosophy on the work ethics of certain Companies staff. That's the way we should all approach our jobs.

Many of us used to be that way, but in an environment where it seems employers feel justified in screwing their employees over industrial issues tends to direct the employees' attention into other areas. And that shows at the "rock face"...

But I digress. The sad reality of the SY-CB, or any Government contract is that regardless of the level of SERVICE the client receives, who gets the contract will always come down to the most competitive tender.

And that could be anyone........

frank Borman
7th Jan 2003, 01:22
Apacau, REX aren't hanging out for Singapore Airlines. I can tell you very confidently that aint the case as Singapore will not be starting here in Australia.

Singapore have never been interested in starting here. I have it on very good advice that the press rumblings about SQ flying here in Australia are merely grumblings started by vested interests to get SQ to declare their hand early either way.

The federal government for all their crowing in the press of open skies etc will make it very hard for a third entrant, particularly SQ. AND even more so because Geoff Dixon and co have a direct whinge line to John Howard. Don't beleive me? well make some informed calls to Parliament House( Anderson's office, Dept of Prime Minister and Cabinet even) and you will find out just how cushy the board of QF are with the Howard government.

8th Jan 2003, 05:55
A 737 will nedd a 200% load factor to make money on $49. Unless the crew are getting paid peanuts.

15th Jan 2003, 06:15
..............and I have it on very good authority that Rex ARE hanging out for SIA and wil be finalising an interline agreement with them as early as Feb 2003...interesting hey!;)

15th Jan 2003, 09:30
Everyone must realise by now that SIA are never going to fly domestically in Australia. Sydney Airport know that. Thats why they capitulated big time to Virgin who ended up with a better deal than they originally asked for.
Rex work with Virgin now and will be even closer very soon, especially when Virgin Atlantic comes in June, or sooner.

frank Borman
19th Jan 2003, 22:55
Thats all good, but my authority is from Singapore, and I can tell you that in Singapore, we have a different idea to whats being said in Australia. If REX are hanging out for SQ, they'll be hanging out a very very long time.

SQ are more interested in establishing more links to and from Australia and other countries, particularly South Africa. They simply cannot justify a new operation in another country as much as the press and others wish to speculate on.

The cold hard facts are they will not be starting here in their own right, any airline that is hanging out for them does so at their own fate.

I keep saying, there are a number of hurdles facing SQ starting here, without going in to all of them, lets say the bigger one is the federal government and the lack of respect and trust SQ have for them after bowing to QF and stifling the SQ/AirNZ/AN alliance.