Groundsman Willy
17th Dec 2002, 08:29
I don't post often but here's a long one and worth a read.
Well I’ve done it at last, passed the CPL flight test – Friday the 13th of all days. Nine months it’s taken me since starting my CPL training; a year and three months since ab-initio. I could possibly have done it quicker but work, money, weather and maintaining some enjoyment in it dictated that it was a good and practical progress rate.
Total time was 263hrs but en-route I did 10hrs aerobatics (huge recommendation), 10hrs in a tail-dragger (good for ye olde rudder work), 15hrs mountain flying course (spectacular), a six day blast round New Zealand with two great friends, and a few route checks to allow me to go straight on line commercially.
I was totally naive when I started out and found it difficult to get unbiased advice so I thought I’d put my experience to PPRUNE for others in the same boat. Can I first ask others not to post any personal attacks regarding any particular instructor or establishment because all that happens is the whole thread gets deleted and does nobody any good – Thanks.
I started my training at one of the big Ardmore flying schools and bashed through all the theory courses non-stop. PPL, CPL, IFR theory and didn’t go near a plane for those first three or four months. It was hard but the best thing I could’ve done and have no regrets doing it that way. The flying school environment is definitely the easiest way to study, I’ve studied my ATPL’s at home and it sucks – concentration span of about three minutes at home. The classroom is frustrating at times due to young punks who appear to be there killing time and wasting money, but it's still better than self-study.
The schools will tell you that you can’t do your theory there unless you also do your flying as well, crap. Only a small percentage of those that do the theory course actually go on and do the flying, they can’t force you to do the flying there, and your ASL exam results are yours – end of story.
The complications arise depending on how you are funding it all. Student loans do tie you to the big flying schools but you can still change between stages ie. PPL to CPL, CPL to C’Cat. With self funding you can change at any time and train anywhere.
Picking somewhere to train is pretty easy if you are using a student loan – where is your easiest/cheapest/preferred place to live? Then pick the big school near there, end of story. They are all pretty much the same – young instructors, little experience, fly only in fair weather, give you the big sell about work opportunities and industry contacts, new planes, equipment and simulators and at the end of the day NONE OF IT MEANS JACK!!! All they want at the end of the day is your money and because they get your loan direct to them they have control of it.
If you are self-funding do your flying at some of the great wee clubs round New Zealand. You should be looking for them to have at least one or two full time B’Cat instructors and preferably a commercial operation of some sort at the same location. Don’t believe the theory that you should stay with the same instructor throughout, having flights with other instructors can put a whole new perspective on things and you can glean all sorts of knowledge, hints, and others experience from changing.
I started my flying and completed my PPL at the same school in Ardmore that I did my theory. They very nearly talked me into staying but I can say without ANY doubt or hesitation that moving to Queenstown and joining Wakatipu Aero Club was the best decision I have ever made in my life.
I had heard a wee bit about them and read an article in Aviation news but was still a bit unsure. I did a search on PPRUNE and came up with only good comments. I then phoned a couple of operators and talked to their Chief Pilots, again more praise.
Here’s Ardmore’s reasons not to go to WAC at ZQN and my experience for comparison:-
1. Old planes – So what, they go as well if not better than some of the flash new ones.
2. End up costing more – Not likely, I’m ready to work and will get work NOW, not in five months time when one of your thirty other instructors twiddling their thumbs, move on.
Hourly rate Ardmore $200/hr plus landing fee, plus airways, plus flight planning, charged from the time the ignition is switched on.
W.A.C $162/hr inlcuding landing fees, airways and flight planning, charged from completion of your run-ups. Do the sums!!
3. No night flying in ZQN – So what, when am I going to need it. What’s the problem with popping to Invercargill/Dunedin or anywhere else to do it.
4. No twin engine aircraft – Yes they do, Partenavia. Used for training and commercial ops so when you get rated in it you can also get work to keep current. That also goes for the C206 that they operate.
5. No IFR in ZQN– True but again, at what stage in your aviation career are you going to require this, certainly not at the beginning. Do a course whenever and wherever you like, when you need to.
6. The weather – Ha!! This one is laughable, I had three times more “no fly” days in Auckland than Queenstown, and even that aside at least they teach you to fly in marginal conditions, rain, snow, low cloud, real cross winds.
Do I need to go on? Yes. Okay then, strip landings, beach landings, Milford Sound, the mountains, turbulence, forced landings where there aren’t a thousand paddocks – there may only be one and it isn’t in sight yet, real people with experience, real contacts, real opportunities, a far nicer atmosphere. REAL and PRACTICAL SKILL, not just the requirement to pass a flight test.
When I started at Wakatipu Aero Club I had my PPL, some consolidation time and some aerobatics, I thought I was on my way to becoming a Pilot. After my very first flight I knew I had a bloody long way to go.
There are other aeroclubs with a similar approach to flying as WAC, this is just the one I have experience with, but to me, the mountain skills I have learned are unsurpassable.
I hope this has been of interest and help in your decision making, as long as you go for it and KEEP POSITIVE. The thing about flying, at this stage anyway, “The highs are way higher than the lows” :D :D
Groundsman Willy (not on the ground as often)
Well I’ve done it at last, passed the CPL flight test – Friday the 13th of all days. Nine months it’s taken me since starting my CPL training; a year and three months since ab-initio. I could possibly have done it quicker but work, money, weather and maintaining some enjoyment in it dictated that it was a good and practical progress rate.
Total time was 263hrs but en-route I did 10hrs aerobatics (huge recommendation), 10hrs in a tail-dragger (good for ye olde rudder work), 15hrs mountain flying course (spectacular), a six day blast round New Zealand with two great friends, and a few route checks to allow me to go straight on line commercially.
I was totally naive when I started out and found it difficult to get unbiased advice so I thought I’d put my experience to PPRUNE for others in the same boat. Can I first ask others not to post any personal attacks regarding any particular instructor or establishment because all that happens is the whole thread gets deleted and does nobody any good – Thanks.
I started my training at one of the big Ardmore flying schools and bashed through all the theory courses non-stop. PPL, CPL, IFR theory and didn’t go near a plane for those first three or four months. It was hard but the best thing I could’ve done and have no regrets doing it that way. The flying school environment is definitely the easiest way to study, I’ve studied my ATPL’s at home and it sucks – concentration span of about three minutes at home. The classroom is frustrating at times due to young punks who appear to be there killing time and wasting money, but it's still better than self-study.
The schools will tell you that you can’t do your theory there unless you also do your flying as well, crap. Only a small percentage of those that do the theory course actually go on and do the flying, they can’t force you to do the flying there, and your ASL exam results are yours – end of story.
The complications arise depending on how you are funding it all. Student loans do tie you to the big flying schools but you can still change between stages ie. PPL to CPL, CPL to C’Cat. With self funding you can change at any time and train anywhere.
Picking somewhere to train is pretty easy if you are using a student loan – where is your easiest/cheapest/preferred place to live? Then pick the big school near there, end of story. They are all pretty much the same – young instructors, little experience, fly only in fair weather, give you the big sell about work opportunities and industry contacts, new planes, equipment and simulators and at the end of the day NONE OF IT MEANS JACK!!! All they want at the end of the day is your money and because they get your loan direct to them they have control of it.
If you are self-funding do your flying at some of the great wee clubs round New Zealand. You should be looking for them to have at least one or two full time B’Cat instructors and preferably a commercial operation of some sort at the same location. Don’t believe the theory that you should stay with the same instructor throughout, having flights with other instructors can put a whole new perspective on things and you can glean all sorts of knowledge, hints, and others experience from changing.
I started my flying and completed my PPL at the same school in Ardmore that I did my theory. They very nearly talked me into staying but I can say without ANY doubt or hesitation that moving to Queenstown and joining Wakatipu Aero Club was the best decision I have ever made in my life.
I had heard a wee bit about them and read an article in Aviation news but was still a bit unsure. I did a search on PPRUNE and came up with only good comments. I then phoned a couple of operators and talked to their Chief Pilots, again more praise.
Here’s Ardmore’s reasons not to go to WAC at ZQN and my experience for comparison:-
1. Old planes – So what, they go as well if not better than some of the flash new ones.
2. End up costing more – Not likely, I’m ready to work and will get work NOW, not in five months time when one of your thirty other instructors twiddling their thumbs, move on.
Hourly rate Ardmore $200/hr plus landing fee, plus airways, plus flight planning, charged from the time the ignition is switched on.
W.A.C $162/hr inlcuding landing fees, airways and flight planning, charged from completion of your run-ups. Do the sums!!
3. No night flying in ZQN – So what, when am I going to need it. What’s the problem with popping to Invercargill/Dunedin or anywhere else to do it.
4. No twin engine aircraft – Yes they do, Partenavia. Used for training and commercial ops so when you get rated in it you can also get work to keep current. That also goes for the C206 that they operate.
5. No IFR in ZQN– True but again, at what stage in your aviation career are you going to require this, certainly not at the beginning. Do a course whenever and wherever you like, when you need to.
6. The weather – Ha!! This one is laughable, I had three times more “no fly” days in Auckland than Queenstown, and even that aside at least they teach you to fly in marginal conditions, rain, snow, low cloud, real cross winds.
Do I need to go on? Yes. Okay then, strip landings, beach landings, Milford Sound, the mountains, turbulence, forced landings where there aren’t a thousand paddocks – there may only be one and it isn’t in sight yet, real people with experience, real contacts, real opportunities, a far nicer atmosphere. REAL and PRACTICAL SKILL, not just the requirement to pass a flight test.
When I started at Wakatipu Aero Club I had my PPL, some consolidation time and some aerobatics, I thought I was on my way to becoming a Pilot. After my very first flight I knew I had a bloody long way to go.
There are other aeroclubs with a similar approach to flying as WAC, this is just the one I have experience with, but to me, the mountain skills I have learned are unsurpassable.
I hope this has been of interest and help in your decision making, as long as you go for it and KEEP POSITIVE. The thing about flying, at this stage anyway, “The highs are way higher than the lows” :D :D
Groundsman Willy (not on the ground as often)