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whogivesa????
17th Dec 2002, 03:29
Exactly when and where do QF and DJ draw the line on late running pax ?
Is "I didn't hear the boarding call" a good enough excuse ? or "They did not call the flight in the Qantas Club" valid reason to delay every one ELSE who can read a watch ?

Noticed that QF have dedicated check in desks in Sydney for Pax wh's "flights already been called"... surely if the flight has ALREADY been called... and you have NOT checked in, then you have missed it ?

In my (humble) opinion, ther is absolutely NO reason that you should delay a flight for anyone... I do not care WHO it is. If 99 other people can make it on time, why can't the last ones?

Guaranteed that the TRAIN will leave on time to Melbourne/Perth etc. everybody knows what time a train leaves.... why are people so DISRESPECTFUL when it comes to planes ?

Just a thought :)

Sheep Guts
17th Dec 2002, 03:41
Passenger delays are part of the parcel really. If they dont make it by final call. But if you are waiting for a late connection, because you are the last service to a particular destination, you sometimes have to wait. Especially if you want them to return if your the only carrier

Other delays that p#### me off:

1. Load Sheet, Manifest
2. Fuel
3. Customer Service
4. GPU
5. Luggage

May seem meaningless back in Australia, and hard to believe, but in my part of the World sadly a reality, constantly one of the above 5 on , 6 out 7 departures. With 12 sectors a day it get taxing I tell you.:D :D

Regards
SHEEP

MoFo
17th Dec 2002, 04:18
Unfortunately there are numerous reasons why people turn up late ranging from being plain bog stupid to the anus' who think they are more important than the rest of us. But you get these types anywhere. Just look at the line in your local supermarket for examples.

The problem lies where they have checked in baggage that has to be found and off loaded. This is pure bag lotto so the time needed can vary from 1 minute, to 20 minutes where Murphies Law kicks in and the bag is the last one pulled out of the hold.

Just another day, another d*ckhead.

Raingauge
17th Dec 2002, 09:23
I can't stand late passengers and have no hesitation in taking off without them if they can't be bothered to rock up on time.

As for the supermarket line, talk about a test of patience. I've been known to point out to people that they have more than 12 items in the 12 items or less isle, much to the embarasment to my better half. What can I say...dealing with other peoples incompetence takes its toll.:D

Eastwest Loco
17th Dec 2002, 10:42
In my years at DPO and WNY (now BWT) airports, we held for no-one, except medivacs amd family emergencies.

Over the years I left every alleged major businessman in the area behind and when they jumped up and down I simply asked them why 71 people should be delayed in their departure for one who couldn't make it on time.

Know what? It worked.

The worst problems were when 300lb West Coast miners rocked up late.

7 minutes prior to departure was the cutoff, and anyone after then would often be distressed to hear that stand-bys were in their seats. That allowed us to finalise the (manual) load and trim and get the girl away on schedule.

It is a little more difficult these days with slf off- bags off rules, but the morons who check in late only need to be hit with an upgrade penalty and a significant delay to make them realise they are no more important than any other passenger.

The main problem is the marketing [email protected] who continue to stroke these idiots and make them feel that they are better than mum and dad spending their hard earned on a long awaited holiday.

Such is the industry today's poor crews and trafficys have inherited.

Best all.

EWL

kuldalai
17th Dec 2002, 11:11
Heard of one habitual late comer business yuppie soaking up the delights of the Executive Club who always turned up at the last minute. So he was set up, they did not load his bag and held it at the gate. Paged him several times - no show. Pushed back and taxiing out he shows at the gate aghast - you can't depart without me my bag is on board. Oh no its not , we thought based on your past record you might miss the flight so we took the precaution of taking it off for you. Hasn't been late since.

willadvise
17th Dec 2002, 12:13
I would like to share a recent experience travelling MEL-SYD-MEL.

0830 Thurs departure MEL. I arrive at 0720 hoping to get the chance to grab a coffee and muffin before getting on. Join the "snake" type queue. It doesn't look so bad it is not quite out the door yet. No problems. Hmmm doesn't seem to be moving very fast. Gee only 6 checkin counters open with all these people here. I hope I don't miss my flight. The ticket says a 30 min check in time. Anyhow 40mins later "Will all passengers waiting to check in for QFXXX please proceed immediately to counters 15&16". I still about 10 people deep. I manage to get on.

1530 Sun Departure SYD. I arrive 1410. Hmm no "snake" queing system in Syd. You have to play checkin counter lottery. Of course the one I pick has about 50 people in it. About a 1/3 of which apparently had problems checking in, including one which took a 10 min phone call. 55 mins later "Will all passengers waiting to check in for QFXXX please proceed immediately to counters 15&16" Doors closed immediately after me with a disapproving look from the staff.
Why don't they have a snake in Sydney so we have an equal chance of being able to check in?
Why should I bother turning up 70-80min prior to departure time, queue for 40-50mins because the airline has failed to provide an adequate number of checkin staff when I know I can rock up 25mins prior. Wait for the priority checkin call and be on my way.
This doesn't seem to be a difficult problem for me. The airline know how many people will be turning up for checkin, why can't the roster an appropriate no. of staff?

This is not an isolated example for me, it seems to happen on about 50% of my flights. In future I am not going to bother turning up early and I will wait for the priority call.

Slasher
18th Dec 2002, 04:11
Youll find this is a worldwide problem not confined to just one country and one carrier. There are many reasons why pax are late and a lot has to do with cultural excuses so Ive found:

islamic States: 'sorry just had to get in my mid-afternoon prayers'

Aussies: 'Hey youve just got enough got time for another roadey mate!'

S.E. Asians.: 'Patience is a virtue. No need to rush.'

Poms: 'The M4 was packed!'

ad infinitem.

I agree to hell with late pax. If 149 manage to show up on time why give a rats about the late 150th? Unless its delays incurred by a late conecting flight then b*gger them.

Eastwest Loco
18th Dec 2002, 06:56
Agreed Slasher

The ones that do the right thing must take precedence.

I even managed to roll an F27 (why does one always us "an" with F27 and F28) with a Government Minister still to check in.

He had made the mistake of writing a letter to local management stating that he expected no diferent treatment than that afforded his constituents.

Bad move - the skipper was Fatty Hawkins and I enquired how good he was at quick turnarounds and when queried about why told him I intended to leave a Federal MP behind,as he was a habitual late check-in.

When assured the victim was a Lib, Fatty went into overdrive, and we rolled TN976 3 minutes early with a full fare strap-hanger in the 36th seat next to a Lib Senator (Brian Archer i think) who always had the common decency to check in on time.

Oooooooh - the paperwork that ensued!!! He never checked in late again though.

Maybe with check-in and go missing passengers, they could be penalised by charging them by the minute for the DOC of an idle aeroplane and crew, and the costs of failed downline connecting passengers re-accommodation.

That may make them think twice.

Best all

EWL

Sheep Guts
18th Dec 2002, 07:43
You can get away with that inOz, but here in the Caribbean where all our pax agenerally Yanks you cant stuff around as they will go somewhere else.... You have to grin a bare it so to speak.
U.S. citizens are well versed in the art of Aviation coverup, and know when its bullshit. They are the most travelled group of people on the planet....:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

gaunty
18th Dec 2002, 10:27
Leave em, every one else on board had managed to get there on time, the "dog ate my homework" routine is interesting, but if the flight is closed, it's closed except for the usual late connections within reason and exceptional circumstances.

Fascinating episode of "Airline" the other night about this very subject.

Young yuppy wannabe businessman, kept insisting that the cheap fare was not worth it compared to the cost of his time blah blah blah spent waiting for the next flight after having turned up late.
It wasn't his fault that British Rail had closed the Railway station in London that he thought he could connect with, it wasn't his fault blah, blah, blah For someone as highly paid as he said he was, he wasn't at all well organised. He sorta missed the point when the lady suggested that he was travelling with the wrong airline. If he and his business was that important then Easyjet wasn't for him, unless he got himself organised.

Then there was the French guy who was trying to pay for his airfare with a personal cheque without a recognised bank gaurantee card and simply refused to accept, with much shouting and banging of fists, that cash was the only other alternative. It was of course the airlines fault.

The old familiar "I'll never travel with you again" threat was met with sighs of relief from the Airline staff.
It was all so distressingly familiar with people trying to put responsibility for their own shortcomings on to other people.

In my current business the intial point of contact is an opportunity to assess whether we wish to continue the transaction as we are going to have to live with up close and personal with them for about 6-9 months. If they show signs of being serially unreasonable or have an exagerated notion of their importance in the scheme of things we politely cut it right there.
If it is not a two way street it's simply too hard, there are enough really nice and pleasant people to deal with out there to be bothered.

Oh and in case Chuckles is lurking around somewhere, there are some exceptions:D:rolleyes: They would have been quite within their rights to keep going, I didn't ask them to shut down the RH engine.:p

Flight Detent
18th Dec 2002, 18:18
Hi all,
I used to fly for Kuwait Airways, departing from the UK, Qattar or Dubai for Kuwait, we would regularly have to wait for some of the more 'exulted' locals, who would just keep shopping as they saw fit, always well past the advertised departure time, knowing full well that the expat crew would not depart without them, it they wanted to keep their job!
This is normal fair for these types of airlines!

Cheers

50 Cal
18th Dec 2002, 21:10
Nice thread EWL, your dead right about management licking the heals of these business persons...screw em I say!! What they don't remember is that these people will jump onto another carrier without a blink of an eye, only thinking of their self interest and a dollar they might save.
I don't believe there's much loyalty left any more in this world of ours so if they are not there on time and fail to check in like everybody else...goodbye, hoo=roo, caio baby-we're out of here. Start her up ,lets go. The worst offender in my milk runs up and down the east coast would just about always be businessmen and a certain Country Party [ex] polly with a large cowboy hat who is always running late and expects to board when he is ready. I am proud to have flown with crews who leave him behind, although I do feel sorry for the ground staff copping an earful as we taxi past!!! You guys don't get paid enough.

huntsman
19th Dec 2002, 01:15
Question for all,
Why is a delayed flight (air traffic) considered an allowable excuse when most other excuses eg, car traffic, etc. are not?
Is it a guilt/service thing?

Fris B. Fairing
19th Dec 2002, 04:47
EWL

It's "an" F-27 or "an" F-28 because the other alternative is too hard to say. Besides, the letter "F" is pronounced as if it begins with a vowel so therein lies the justification. Same reason we don't say "a RAAF aircraft" but rather "an RAAF aircraft" (I do anyway). But then your question was rhetorical anyway wasn't it? Note that some like to use F-27 or F-28 with an hyphen!

On the subject of late pax, there is always "The Old Check-in Late with the Excess Baggage Trick". Rarely worked in my experience though! Further on the subject of late pax, it wasn't your good self who coined the "Sorry ocker the Fokker's chocker" line was it? Such a classic line deserves to be enshrined in aviation folklore with appropriate attribution.

Cheers

Eastwest Loco
19th Dec 2002, 11:54
Sheeps Guts - If you lose a passenger in the Caribbean who checks in late, you have gained the trust and respect of the passengers that did check in on time. A positive marketing move - and the drop kick will be back as soon as he is left behind by another carrier. Clients like that have absolutely NO loyalty or allegience.

Coral - unfortunately, even if you can track a bag to what can it is in onboard a heavy, chances are that it will be the first loaded, and as such every can between the loading door and the can in question will need to be offloaded before the offending bag is found - major time loss.

Flight detent - Have had a passenger offloaded ex DXB in J class - a son of a sheik decided he wanted to take his parrot to London - so naturally the [email protected] bumped an infidel.

Huntsman - the factors that delay flights whether it be mechanical, weather conditions, ATC, strikes or whatever are exclusive from external forces. A passenger must allow for all contingencies to get themselves to the airport in reasonable time. Factors outside the airport or operational area cannot be an excuse. An airline cant be blamed for your late arrival because a truck jacknifed on the Tullamarine freeway. Qantas or Virgin have no control over this. Nor do the Internationals.

Fris B - I have used "sorry Ocker - the fokker's chocka" many times, but cannot claim copyright - I do believe it originated in the TN Queensland outports.

Best all

EWL

MIss Behaviour
22nd Dec 2002, 03:50
In May 2001 the now President of East Timor was late for an RPT service DIL/DRW on a Friday evening. The Metro crew had finalised the paperwork & were ready to depart when (out of sight of checkin but not out of ear shot) they heard the "this plane will not leave without me'' demand. They looked at each other & said "it just did" before departing without further delay.

Obviously not having learned his lesson, the same scenario happens again the next day when he was rebooked on the Bras. for the same sector. The pax was nowhere near the airport at the ETD so the flight duly departed which meant that he missed attending the opening ceremony of the Arafura Games.

The media's version of events differed slightly with the NT News accusing the ''mean spirited" Captain of leaving a folorn XG behind on the tarmac as he watched the plane take off without him.....

Turns out that the anonymous article was written by none other than the ex Channel 10/9/7/2 & now SBS 'perfumed steamroller'.

Definitely a case of why let the facts get in the way of a good story. :( :(