Virgin Blue crying hard done by again

[peanut pusher]

Good to see virgin blue is keeping their story telling across the Tasman today. Not happy to get tax breaks, government funding (State & Federal) & subsidised flying routes. They don't want Air NZ to survive. The perverted bearded ****** is at it again with his we are so poor, I'am just a poor pommy billionare please give us a break. I'am waiting for the red carpet ride to finish and watch the prices rise.

[peanut pusher]

Dr Phil read the SMH or AFR today and see what Mr. Hunter from virgin blue had to say about QF/ANZ alliance. The quote reflected that Air NZ should be left to fend for itself. The Air NZ chairman has already said that they have no future without Qantas, it's no secret they are going down fast in all markets except pacific regional. The restructure of the domestic product was an example of dratic cost cutting. There is alot of airlines in the world hanging on by a thread at this very moment !!!!

[go_dj]

Peanut Pusher

Well all you Kiwis have got to do is give Mr Huttner what he
is looking for and I'm sure the ACCC and the Kiwi eqivalent
will approve the QF/ANZ deal quick smart.

[AViON calling!!]

Still on DJ,

I was shocked to learn the other day (sorry if I'm behind the 8 ball), that Virgin Blue was given subsidies from the Austrailan Government to commence flying routes within Australia at the very same time Ansett Australia was in a dire but still saveable situation.

Is this true or someone having a dig at me?

If it is true then I am aghast at what the government were thinking. Sure enough, both companies are 100% foreign owned with the exception of Ansett International which was still 51% Australian owned, but hey, a company that could be rescued and sold without the drastic layoff of 16,000 staff compared to a company that is brand new with staff numbers in the very low 1000's, to me just doesn't add up.

I know this is probably a little outdated, but since we are on the subject of DJ and their ways I thought it was relevent.

It's just a question and dont mean to offend anyone, but am very interested if anyone could shed some light. Thanks.

[Alpha Charlie Bravo]

Ah, the unseen hand and the hidden agenda! If the powers that be are telling you one thing it generally means they are doing the exact opposite. Ansett was grounded at Xmas and Easter by CASA, the two highest revenue generating periods of the year. Coincidence? Almost 18 months on and DJ have taken tenancy in all major Ansett terminals. Coincidence? Our beloved coalition government was never going to break the union stranglehold on the Australian aviation industry whilst the two established titans maintained the balance of power. They needed a non unionised destabilising third party. Enter DJ. What happened to Ansett is virtually a textbook copy of what happened to the waterside workers under the same coalition government, the major beneficiary of which was Chris Corrigan's Patrick Corp and guess who now owns 50% of DJ. Coincidence? There's no such thing!

[airborne1]

Peanut Pusher. This is the second time within the month that you have openly deflamed virgin.

ANZ was wholly to blame for the demise of ansett and when assistance was needed they bailed out and left ansett a great australian airline as a rotting carcass. They bled Ansett dry. Management at ANZ has been to blame for their problems. Sorry but I went thru that demise with ansett and where was air new zealand. Now they are in trouble again and are seeking someone to help bail them out. It isnt about ANZ surviving in this stance it is about Qantas getting more of a share of the market which is unfair against the competition and fair trading practises. Most australians in any company want to see fairness..this breaches that. Virgin are merely protecting their rights and their business as most companies in this situation would be. As for virgin using the media...yes it may get tiring but that seems to be their way of handling things. What about qantas with media campaigns using john travolta (sorry had to correct your previous thread because you suggested this was virgin's media circus)

I take offense to your line of verbal abuse on here against an airline I work for. This is twice now in the month and your previous comments were just as uneducated as these ones are.

[peanut pusher]

I've been flying for 14 years and know a few things about the industry. Can you tell me why Qantas had over 90% of your crew (our estimation) apply in this last round of recruitments, if your company is such a great place to work ?
I'am just sick of the yapping non stop from a company who openly discriminate in many area's. Next time you have 5 minutes between cleaning the toilets and seats work out how many males you have to female f/a's and then work out how many people work for you guys who are over the age of 35.
Get your facts striaght, infact read the creditors reports. Ansett were going bad 3 years before the take over by ANZ back to the times of Murdoch.
Have you seen a media campaign from Qantas openly attacking virgin in the petty childish ways virgin attack Qantas.
Be careful who you call uneducated, maybe it's the peroxide eating through your hair to your brain.
To quote Geoff Dixon on the ABC four corners program " Ah Virgin Blue, they were complaining when they arrived and they will be complaining when they are leaving"

[go_dj]

Peanut

As an VB F/A for the past 2 yrs, and knowing personally over
60% of my workmates, your statement of 90% of our lot
applying to QF is absolute crap, of the lot I know only 4
applied, try and stick to reality.

[jupiter2]

go_dj,
Of the 4 cabin crew that you know of that applied to Qantas.....
they were at my table.
The other 9 were at other tables.
And that was only at my interview session.

[peanut pusher]

Stick to Reality,
well maybe your work mates are not as honest as you thought.
I tell you this is a fact. Of the first two classes that started when the airline started operation, how many still work for Virgin ?, how many of them now work for Qantas ?. I know this answer, do you ?. Not saying Dr. Phil that VB shouldn't be around but nobody answered my questions about ratio of male flight attendants to female, or how many people over 35 yrs old work for Virgin. They have their market tied up but I'am just saying it's a poor organisation that attacks it's competitors in print and the cheap shot on John Travolta was everdent of that.
All the best to Virgin Blue but stop the tantrums, you good enough without them.

go_dj happy to give you some accurate stats out of the forum in a private message, state by state if you wish.

[FBD]

VB are just a mob of whinging poms!

Surely a QF/ANZ alliance is more beneficial to VB for their growth plans across the Tasman???

With VB only competing against 1 competitor instead of 2, this makes me think they have been handed everything on a platter...Qantas will pull out of the NZ domestic market and this allows VB to step right in.

I wish VB would just get over it. What is worse is that the majority of the uneducated public believe all the VB propaganda crap. I just hope Mr Fels is an educated man.

[izee]

we can all sit back and come up with why ansett went down.

we all know that VB was just one of the nails in the coffin too

we all know that the QLD goverment gave VB taxpayer funded incentives

How come i wasnt consulted if i wanted VB to come here. Im a tax payer and a staff member of another airline trying to stay alive

He comes here and kicks up a fuss in the light of the media and makes a name for himself. And he even cried his eyes out when ROK decided to help another airline and not his.

I think a lot of people who fly with VB find themselves all saying "next time i'll fly QF". Maybe its time to kill the childish antics in the cabin.

The best bit is i got a ticket to sydney from QF way cheaper than VB.

We should be supporting the next best thing to an Australian Airline after Ansett and looking to the red rat.
Go home virgin blue

[AViON calling!!]

The recruitment process at DJ is obviously aimed at the younger and fresher generation of Cabin Crew as this seems to be Virgin Blue's image.

What happens in years to come when the FA's begin to age and sag? What about the image then? What is the working life span of a DJ F/A?

This is not meant to come across as a dig at DJ, but thought it an interesting comment.

[airborne1]

Dr Phil yes I am a F/A!!

Peanut Pusher. I dont come on to this forum and deflame Qantas..and I honestly dont believe you should constantly be deflaming virgin...your bitterness is evident.

Peanut pusher...virgin and qantas are two different airlines they dont compete on the same level. They dont try to. Qantas is a full service airline...virgin isnt..and they dont claim to be...they came into the market as a low cost airline and exist that way.

I am sure when qantas and ansett first started out they too would have employed young and fresh flight attentants..actually in those days their were only women and of those women they werent even allowed to get married let alone have children. A few years on and Qantas is a huge australian player in the airline industry and most of those flight attendants aged with the airline...as will virgin.

The images change as the airline grows. Virgin is a young company still in its growing stages.

The travelling public have a choice...and it is their choice as to which airline they choose to fly. There is a market for both and the markets differ considerably.

I flew for ansett previously so I am lucky to have been able to see both sides of the coin...and both standards of service and operations.

I can honestly say both have their disadvantages and both have their advantages.

Please stop this bitterness towards virgin blue it really isnt necessary...I personally have better things to do with my time than run down a competitors airline...besides its not my style.

I support the airline I currently work for as I did with ansett at the time...I am a loyal employee - something most airlines wish for.

To Avion to answer your question...most F/A's age with the airline and the company finds a new image...happens progressively all the time.

Peanut Pusher...to further add.

Whether you have flown for 2 years or 14 years the job remains the same.

As for your knowledge within the industry I may have only been flying for 4 years now but I grew up around the industry my father was a pilot in australia pre dispute then worked o/s post dispute I keep tabs with what is going on. I have friends who work in all airlines across australia and family friends who work for airlines around the world. I know and understand this industry because it has always been a part of my life.

To further add...I have flown with some of the most bitter flight attendants who have been in the industry when it was maybe time for them to leave because they were always complaining and displaying they were over the job....

I have also flown with flight attendants who have had a seniority number of 3 and have found them to be the most beautiful of all F/as I have come across. It all comes down to personal attitude and remaining positive and loving the job you do!

As for my peroxide running into my brain....I am a brunette and have never had a desire to peroxide my hair...dont generalise. I am also 31 in case that makes a difference to you.

As for some of virgin cabin crew applying to qantas the rumour was that the positions were for long haul and some F/A's at virgin have long had a desire to be long haul F/A's - I dont see the problem in going for that and I dont see where it is a slag at virgin. merely a progression from domestic to long haul.

I might also add here ...you failed to mention the other airline candidates that applied...I personally know of sunstate, eastern, impulse, alliance etc F/A not to mention ex ansett that also applied. Keep your posts balanced not one sided.

Lastly to quote you!

Have you seen a media campaign from Qantas openly attacking virgin in the petty childish ways virgin attack Qantas.

To quote Geoff Dixon on the ABC four corners program " Ah Virgin Blue, they were complaining when they arrived and they will be complaining when they are leaving"

I rest my case with your quote peanut pusher.

Lastly to add...I have never met you - but I do wish you would stop personally attacking virgin blue....some people enjoy their jobs....and get tired of this constant bull****!

I love the aviation industry and the people in it...whether they work for virgin...ex ansett...qantas...etc..they all have my respect as I know the job they do...

lets just leave it at that

No harm intended peanut pusher...as I said i dont know you...but I do wish you would let this anger towards virgin go.

Airborne1

[Xenia]

Dear fellow PPRuNers from the other side of our wonderful world ... There's a lot of bitterness around this topic!
I think is about the time somebody takes a chill pill! http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/flylicker.gif... Arggg .... you know what I am (very) famous at ... http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/whip.gif

[cloud nine]

Must say, I totally agree with Airbourne.

Some people have made this site into a "slagging" off session against VB. It's very petty and has become a tad old and boring.

Move on, get with the times and focus on something that others will find interesting.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Its a waste of time and energy to keep making negative issues about VB.

If VB really is upsetting certain pruners so much, than a good suggestion is, write to Branson/Virgin and voice your opions to someone that cares, as it seems that most pruners are over the childish complaining!

And no I do not work for VB!:)

[Floaty]

wwwooooaaahh... c'mon! Peanut Pusher is a super nice person! I guarantee! Let that one go! We all get pissed with Branson every now and then... he deserves it a bit! :D :D :D

[nickmelb]

Um firstly lets all stop attacking each other! and dont dig into Peanut Pusher either! everyone is entitled to their own opinion we live in a free country after all...but lets not be nasty to one another!

anyways found this article that may be of interest to u guys...I'm not saying anything else!

Nick
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can’t afford security slug: Virgin Blue

Airfares will rise if airlines are forced to foot the bill for an upgrade of Australia’s airport security services, according to domestic carrier Virgin Blue.

The government has called on the aviation industry to bear the brunt of the $180 million upgrade under which all baggage on domestic and international flights will be screened.

Virgin Blue told AAP it would be forced to raise fares to cover the cost, while local rival Qantas said it had yet to make a decision.

“If the government is expecting the industry, aka Qantas and Virgin, to put in the first $180 million over the first two years … we can’t afford to do that,” Virgin Blue ceo Brett Godfrey told the news service.

“It’s going to be detrimental to our business, its going to be detrimental to the industry.

“Unfortunately it will have to be the consumer who foots the bill and ultimately suffers as well.”

Godfrey said national security was the responsibility of the government and not an aviation issue.

“Bali didn’t involve airports and it didn’t involve aeroplanes,” he said.

"The World Trade Centre, as awful as it was, didn’t just involve aeroplanes.

"We are going to have to start looking at taxes on tell buildings, start looking at shopping centre charges, taxes to go to the football.’’

Deputy prime minister John Anderson said the upgrade was expected to add little more than "the price of an ice-cream’’ to air fares.

13 December 2002


:p :p

[skypryncess]

Airbourne1

''In those days there were only women and of those they were not allowed to get married let alone have children''

Firsty this was a time when women did not work after marriage in any industry.

If you do some research I think that you will find that Qantas employed its first female FA in 1948. All previous cabin crew in the airlines history were men.

[peanut pusher]

I seem to stir up my sisters and brother at VB everytime I ask a question. It's never been an attack on a VB f/a or any other person other than my questions leveled at why certain people in Virgin always go with a type of angle. (is that better ?). Then someone attacks me and says I'am uneducated for asking a very simple question or making a point. Then I respond with some silly comment about peroxide and it goes down from there. I don't hate VB, just want them to get abit of class and uphold what running an airline should be. I just can't understand their style. Sometimes the whinging and we are so harshly treated starts to run thin. I always thought they wanted to run with the big boys?, 50% of the domestic market is what the man says when he gets a chance, or Qantas were on your tail, you'd better watch yourself. So Qantas respond to that and it starts getting silly again. Thats why I ask the questions or make the statements.

Nothing personal, just TRYING to get inside the inner circle.


Thanks floaty, nick, avion,i zee, FBD & skyprincess(and you are a princess) money's in the mail

[cabinboy]

Just to make one thing clear here, the only people at war between DJ and QF are the marketing departments and as such should be left as so. It's quite funny watching DJ bag QF - as we all know QF will never respond. It will continue to happen so get used to it !

The bickering on this forum between staff must stop as it will solve nothing and only ruin the spirit of this forum. As a QF employee I have many DJ friends and only last week attended a DJ f/a party where I got along famously with the other DJ f/a staff. They respected my airline and I respected theirs - no big deal - at the end of the day we work to live, not live to work - it's just a job !

Do we see this bickering amongst the staff of telstra and optus ? Myer and David Jones ? Woolworths and Coles ? NO !

[SydGirl]

Frankly, I find this whole debate quite yawnable. However, I shall add in my 2 cents worth anyway!

DJ has this whole hip, young, fresh and "keeping the air fair" thing going on. That's all good and well, imho. If peeps want to get a cheap ticket then the perception is to go with VB. Sometimes QF is cheaper, sometimes it's not. The public are very fickle creatures.

QF is going the whole corporate professional image in order to capture the business high-yield end of the market. Hence the reason they still have a meal service and cater to those pax travelling in J/C. They also have the added benefit of "seamless connections" (may I add, I use that term loosely, as pax connecting on an international flight when they arrive in T2 do not exactly get the pleasure of the whole seamless experience).

My question here is what exactly is the problem here? So what if VB F/A's apply to QF? Why does anyone really give a hoot?

Yes, I tire of the Branson whining about everything costing too much - but his whole aim is to "keep the air fair" and keep prices down (of course, the amount of profit he will make has absolutely nothing to do with it!!). This tactic seems to be working well for him so far - and as the saying goes - when you're on a good thing, stick to it.

May I also add that I take offence to the comment made in an early post that AirNZ were the sole reason that AN went down. I detest AirNZ as much as the next guy, but there were plenty of other peeps who had their hand in the till well before AirNZ got there. I find it personally ironic that I worked for the airline that got dumped by them, and am now working for the airline that is going to save them.

A small win is sometimes very satisfying.
Enough of my rambles. Merry Christmas all.

SG
:)

[djembe56]

So what's the problem with Virgin Blue cabin crew applying to Qantas for jobs? I don't think it's an indication of DJ staff being disatisfied but simply a reflection of the fact that people work for DJ because jobs are available. I can't imagine there would be too many cabin crew, or pilots for that matter, who, if they really had a choice, would chose DJ over QF? Why would they?

[Big Hairy Potatoes]

Just read this whole thread and it is fairly obvious that we are all very loyal and wholeheartily defend our employers.

I agree that sometimes Branson's media stunts can wear a little thin, but he's a media tart (sorry should reword that), he's a billionaire media tart who uses the media to his advantage. He is always accessable to the media and answers all questions asked of him,no matter how stupid they are.I've been at a media conference with him present and the man is gifted at playing the media. He has made the media a friend, not an enemy(who would want the media as an enemy in this country,our tall poppy syndrome would tear you apart).
As somebody said earlier,if it's not broke don't fix it,it works for him and must keep the old advertising budget down. Remember VB is a low cost,yes low cost airline not discount,it tries to keep it's costs down and then pass these onto the public.Not raise costs, then slug the punter with higher fares.

At this point VB has 25% of the market(gunning for more) and has just been named with the 3rd most respected CEO behind Sony and Harvey Norman in regard to consumer confidence(or something along those lines),they are expanding rapidly and becoming more respected all the time.

People who work for VB are normally new to the airline industry and when an advertisement comes up for Qantas they see dollars in their eyes and all rush off and apply. I would no doubt say that this happened at Ansett as well before Virgin. Good luck to them, but with the industry world wide the way it is, eventually Qantas will have to lower their costs to stay viable. It's already started -: starting up Australian, trying to buy Air NZ,freezing wages and so forth.

Let's look at the big picture guys.

WE"VE ALL GOT A GREAT LIFE FLYING AROUND THE COUNTRY AND WE'VE BOTH GOT STRONG STABLE COMPANIES THAT ARE'NT GOING BROKE OR FILING FOR BANKRUPTCY.

Be happy & stop slagging off at each other.

Sorry about the rambling. Just finished a 4 day trip and have had a couple of night caps.

[Wirraway]

One Ball

Virgin Blue is now 50% owned by Patrick an Aussie company,
50% of profits remain here.

Wirraway

[cino2go]

I have a question for the great VB Marketing team.

Why can you never get the cheapest published airfare on VB.

Seems when ever you compare prices with Qantas, Qantas is always cheaper.

Seems like bait advertising to me!