Most idiotic business trip - ever

[Pax Vobiscum]

My brother's (Global 100) company have him booked as follows:

LHR - MEL QF10 dep Mon 22:15 arr Wed 06:20
Wed in client's office
Wed evening dinner with client (!)
Thu in client's office
MEL - LHR QF9 dep Thu 17:10 arr Fri 05:20

The family name is not Kent, so I don't expect too much rational thought will be possible during this brief sojourn in Godzone.

I've done more than my fair share of business miles, but I think this qualifies as the most ludicrous itinerary ever - unless you know different!

[Hartington]

I hope he's not travelling economy!

Worst I ever did was fly LHR/ABZ at 0700, go to clients office to deliver a piece of software and then get back on the plane at about noon.

Mind you, back when I was a Travel Agent (many, many years ago) I did a trip to Athens and back just for the fun of it (one hour on the ground), and a weekend in Rio but they were for the "fun" of it.

[t3953]

Its not always the airlines fault mate! Did he check with his travel provider/agent to see if he could get more time???In my experience companies often pull "quick turnarounds" (sorry, but that was such a juicy pun) on their business men just to get them home asap!!!
If he can get more time and there are no flights then Im sure if it wasnt an issue it would be ok for hom to go via perth or sydney!!!

[Wycombe]

PV - you're right, that is ridiculous. Doesn't matter what class he travels in, he'll be knackered.

Didn't your brother have any say in the itinerary? I see that he's due to arrive back in UK early on a Friday - surely he's not going to work that day aswell?!!? (I'd have been staying for at least part of the weekend if it was me).

[PaperTiger]

It's false economy, that old BA 'redeye' commercial notwithstanding. Presumably flying all that way his task must be important, important enough not to risk screwing it up through fatigue. Perhaps the itinerary was put together by some junior in the corporate travel department who has never flown further than Ibiza (if at all).

I'd get it changed or refuse to go. Have done so before.

[christep]

This is an easy itinerary. A few months ago a colleague of mine had to fly:

Mon lunchtime depart LIS-LHR-HKG-SYD arr Weds am
Weds all day work in SYD
Wes-Thurs (short) overnight SYD-HKG
Thurs work all day in HKG
Thurs-Fri overnight HKG-LHR-LIS arr back Fri lunchtime

In the good old days an itinerary like that was excuse enough to go First. Nowadays, he had to do it all in Economy, and there isn't a hotel room in the whole week.

[Pax Vobiscum]

I concede Christep, your itinerary is even more ludicrous than my bro's! I don't know your circumstances, but bear in mind that his company have several hundred experienced staff in Oz. I'm prepared to accept that he's the best person they've got for this mission, but after a journey like that, no-one can be expected to be firing on all cylinders.

t3593 - no the timing is all down to his company, and Wycombe - yes he will be working (from home) on Friday. Smaller organizations may have no choice but to send people off on this type of jaunt. If I have to do it, I insist on at least 24hrs to recover before starting work.

I didn't mention (but perhaps you may have guessed) that his company HQ is in the USA. My experience of working for US companies is that there is often a macho attitude that judges 'global' workers worth by how many air-miles they clock up. The last one I worked for wanted to promote me from a european role to a global one, managing teams in UK, US and Oz - I told them to stuff it!

[gofer]

For an American company - that is not at all a bad workout.

Imagine that he had to leave on Sat to work Mon-Tue and fly back for Wed to Fri in the office. You have to realise that American company's work on the principle that a) travel time is outside of working time and b) if you get business class you can walk off and work. In the ones I've worked for it was even in the contract.

I'm used to a) as that also goes for most of us working out in the Far east, with the distances we have - but if there was no horizontal bed (keep on punting BA) and no way to get an upgrade to 1st - then Oz non-stop is hard.

I regularly do a Europe to Far east or vice-versa overnight and then work all day - thats fine if you sleep 8-9 hours as I always do - but after about 10 that night, its time for bed.

:p

[t3953]

Yikes mate, thats really rough then if its his company doing this...

Surely he can sight them in Health and Safety grounds!!! ;)

[craigm]

This all depends on how secure the person is in their job but refer to

http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/work_time_regs/

which in summary says
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The basic rights and protections that the Regulations provide are:


a limit of an average of 48 hours a week which a worker can be required to work (though workers can choose to work more if they want to).
a limit of an average of 8 hours work in 24 which nightworkers can be required to work.
a right for night workers to receive free health assessments.
a right to 11 hours rest a day.
a right to a day off each week.
a right to an in-work rest break if the working day is longer than six hours.
a right to four weeks paid leave per year.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[PAXboy]

Craigm, Thanks for the list - if only it could be put into practise. :confused:

When these items are binding by law, then we can get somewhere. Just think how the flight crew would react, if you told them that their working day/week might look the same as millions of regular folks. :rolleyes:

[Pax Vobiscum]

Thanks craigm, it's not clear from the DTI page whether travel time is included (I suspect it's not). Many employment contracts (in multinationals) now include a clause agreeing to work anywhere in the world without any notice being required. In the final analysis it all comes down to how secure you are in your job (who can honestly state "very" in today's world?).

I expect that once the compensation claims for DVT start to roll in attitudes will change. Of course, by then the bozos responsible for this kind of lunacy will have taken their golden parachute and be busy fowling up their next company.

[PAXboy]

When I was in full time employment, I got some of my travelling on the company time, mainly to the US but European was all out of hours.

Having been freelance for the past 12 years, it is far worse! No client will pay travel time. Once a client has got to know you, you might be able to get a reduced rate for a long haul travel day but not usually.

When I was working in HKG in 94/95, the client would not pay for the travel time and would not pay for anything other than straight Y. This was the worst, it was so bad that I made a note of it:

Saturday early afternoon: LHR ~ SFO in VS 'Y'. 11 hours and eight time zones.

Sunday to recover, so my whole weekend used at no payment to me. Hotel cost is paid, though.

Monday, drive about 60 miles to a potential supplier, to be briefed on their product and ask searching questions. Drive back to SFO. That was my birthday!

Tuesday: SFO ~ HKG 10 hours and 100 time zones, as I went across the line. UA in 'Y', trapped in the centre block of four with jabbering folk all around.

Arrived late Wednesday, stagger to hotel.

Thursday morning into office, expecting quiet day as Friday is the big day of presentations from bidding companies, one of whom I have to select. The client greets me cheerfully and says that he has brought all the presentations forward to that day. ... .

I remembered practically nothing of the day but he was paying the bills and I was given no choice in the matter.

So, in four clock days I had gone two thirds of the way around the world in Y, losing a day and expected to work normally? Yep.

Fortunately, I was then in HKG for three weeks before I came home.
OK, that's my bid!! :D

[Pax Vobiscum]

My sympathies PAXboy! As PaperTiger observed - it's all a false economy - if we're worth our daily rate, we're worth a little extra to ensure we can perform somewhere near our best. But then (almost) all businesses seem to be run by/for the beancounters these days and are therefore expert in false economies - see BA towing mishap (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=74143) for a recent example.

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
Albert Einstein

[atb1943]

When we started to exhibit at trade fairs in 1977 we were expected to drive to shows in Paris, Farnborough, etc, clear the equipment we were hauling through customs if appropriate (8 hours wait in the shed at Dover for example), get to the show, clear the goods inbound (the shows' premises were customs bond areas), erect the stand, lay carpeting, decorate, set up displays (the cabinets were, once erected, not accessible, so the exhibits had to be A1), find our hotel, acclimatise, return early next day to be ready on time for the show's opening, man the stand all week, entertain clients, suppliers, bosses in the evenings, keep smiling, make intelligent conversation, intake all manner of strange food and drink (an often pleasant part of the exercise), ensure publicity in the show dailies, post pr at the press centre, arrange media events.......

Break down the stand afterwards, customs outbound, channel crossing, drive hundreds of kms, spend quality time with the family (ha ha), turn up at the office and handle the hundreds of enquiries collected during the week.

I tried to collect overtime once and was told, we thought you'd be happy to get away from your desk...!

One result was that we were able to at least bag more days to do it all in, to the detriment of the family of course.

Then management decided to attend Singapore and Dubai - aha! at last a logistical problem, maybe they'll start spending some money on stand builders etc....

Well, they paid for the stuff to be freighted over, the rest continued as before, but in entirely different climatic conditions, meaning you had to take twice as much clothing with you, because it spoiled so rapidly, and cleaner's bills were difficult to recoup. Delhi belly reared its ugly head. We were at least (in those early days) allowed to travel business, thus we got to know and enjoy great service on SQ and EK.

Eventually the company lashed out on power tools, a ready-made shell stand, a tailor-made container that got shipped everywhere, and then a stand designer, a stand builder, a team back at base to coordinate.......at last, the luxury of being able to attend only as stand personnel, and it all became more enjoyable and acceptable. However, travel was by then coach, and company policy changed unspokenly to allow only young, handsome (or pretty) reps to attend.

I am always happy, after some 7 years of non-attendance at local shows that punters still come looking for me, warms the cockles of me heartstrings, it does.

Third of Advent, three candles burning on the Adventskranz, family looking forward to a pleasant Sunday together.........sorry, got to take these parcels out to Lufthansa, otherwise a G-IV sits on the ground at Brum, and an ERJ in Sao Paolo....

God Bless!!