ATPL course

[londonlad]

I need a little advice. I work a 55-60 hr week in the City (London) and really want to do my ATPL written exams. I have an FAA Comm/Mul/Inst, but now want to convert to a JAA Frozen licence. How viable would it be to concentrate on the first phase (first set) of ATPL exams while working a 55-60 hr week by distant learning? Being very realistic. I'm no book worm and lead a ver balanced and normal (if there is such a thing!) life, so being as realistic as possible I want to know if it can be done. Or alternatively should I quit work and study full time on a residentital course at London Guildhall University? I'm so confused as I have a well paid job and I want to take the best possible route to make sure I can study and pass these exams. I really need some experienced advice from people who've "been there, done that". Thanks a lot in advance.

[mjkukin2]

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG BUT FROM WHAT I READ "YOU MAKE A LOT OF MONEY" AND YOUR NAME "GANGSTA" MAKES ME THINK YOU ARE WORKING FOR THE MAFIA....TUT TUT I HOPE IT SREALLY NOT LIKE THAT

MY view not that i have worked or anything or in your position but if you are making real good money and asspire to be a pilot then why dont you just go for it.. i mean you never know if you dont try

[Busta Level]

Gangsta,

Probably the best way is to (try!) and save enough money to do the conversion + living expenses, leave the job and do the studying full-time. I'm sure it can be done part-time, but it would require a great amount of dedication and subsequent loss of free drinking time! I know that, personally, I would not have been able to cope with my full-time job and do the studying. Not a matter of lack of braincells, just lack of time!

Does your company offer 'sabbaticals' or unpaid leave? That would be the ideal solution as you could take time off to do the flying, but still have a source of income whilst you hunt for the elusive flying job!

Good luck, whatever you decide to do. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[londonlad]

Hey, Pie In The Sky-I totally agree. A bit of background is: I've just turned 23, I KNOW I want to become a JAA pilot. I have to do these exams before I can even go any further. I have a job with a city investment bank as a traders assistant and the money is really good. I say that again not out of arrogance, but just so that you can understand how hard this decision is for me. So I really am counting on some advice from some experienced guys out there who have lived a little more than me to point me in the right direction. I need to know if the residential would suit me more and if jacking in my job will be in my best interest or whether to do the distant learning (bearing in mind I work a 55-60hr wk). I'm sure I'm not the only one in this position and many more are (or have been) and they'd know where I stand. I'm prepared for the cut in money-that's not what my long term problem is. The problem is in the short term. Should I quit or can I hang in here and do the distant learning (relaistically). I appreciate your post PITS. I hope a few more views would clear my confused head. Thanks though.

[Quidditch Captain]

The on-target weekly study hours for the Oxford distance learning package is 15. This is done during 18 modules for phase 1, then 19 for phase 2, scheduled at 1 week per module.
Plus there are 2 lots of 2 weeks onsite brushup courses, plus as good as 2 weeks worth of exams.

This is quite a lot if you are doing 55-60 hours per week at work - you also need a fairly clear head for a lot of the material.

Having said that I did 70%+ of my phase 1 studying on the train to and from London each day, and managed to achieve good marks.

Good luck whichever way you choose to do it.

[George T]

Hi Gangsta
If it’s any help, I’m only a little bit older (I wish). I work some 50 to 60 hrs a week in my own business. Admittedly I take time off as and when I choose (again I wish). I’m doing distance learning with Bristol and don’t find it too much of a bind in time constraints. It will bit in on your social time but “No pain no Gain”

IMHO I don’t think it’s a good idea giving up a job to study no matter how well paid it is. There is no reason why you can’t do it as a distance-learning course especially if you have the FAA licences you say. You will be a little more geared up on what is required as it will not be new to you.

Just my opinion

George T

[Botteron]

Funny but I went through sometime similar. I initially trained as an electrical engineer with Master's degree. Money was relatively good there too.
I decided to switch and applied for the Swissair selection. I was accepted and trained at the Swissair Aviation School (www.swissair-as.ch). A very good school by the way. I hope it won't disappear the way SR will...

Until last Fall, I had good hopes to join SR and to make about as much money as I used to. Well, we all know the story.

I will finally be flying for a regional airline from next month. I'll make much less money than if it were SR (about 35% less).

My piece of advice would also be to put enough money aside for the study and pass the exams in a short period of time (written and skill tests). I suppose it will save you much trouble.

Good luck and don't give up!

[13579]

Before you do the ATPL's they can be a bit daunting, but they're not that bad. You can work, enjoy your life and study as much as you need, or can, at home. I did it, so anybody can. I started off on a full time course, but realised that the guy up front was just reading from the notes. So I just thought I was wasting my time there. I can read the notes myself at home. I suppose full time you do get good back-up, but a school like Bristol can answer any questions you have on the phone. I found them excellent. But the best option is buy the note from say Bristol, study at home and do the exercises. If you can't do it, then sign up for their full time course, which will cost you that much less because you've already bought the notes. Can't lose, they're the same notes full time or distance. One tip though. Don't plan to put in for the exams when you feel you've studied enough, it won't happen. Just go through the course, and exercises at home, even quite briefly, then put in for your exam. The pressure of the date focuses the studying, otherwise you end up putting it of and not getting around to doing it properly. Good luck, and go for it.

[Send Clowns]

Well it is possible, Gangsta, but hard work. These exams are not easy - I did them in 2000. However if you do decide to do distance learning you will have enough money to spare for some tuition in the areas you find difficult, so note my email address in my profile! I worked for SFT as a groundschool instructor before they went into administration. I now give private tuition, as can most of my former colleagues if you need help in areas where I am out of my depth.

However you do it, best of luck. It is worth it!!

[londonlad]

I really appercite the different replies I'm receiving from my question. It really points me in the right way and gives me a bit of an "I can do it" attitude. I'm still a little unsure as the hours I do are very heavy and by the time I get home I'm very tiered. Average time of getting home is 8pm. Then it's eat and then it's bed. I guess if I take small bites at a time (like concentrate on phase one only) and just dedicate my weekends to the cause I can do it. Any ideas of how long it'd take me to do this ONLY WEEKENDS? I'd obviously take a weeks holiday a week before the exam for a brush up course with a private tutor (like send clowns). Also, which school would provide me with the best notes. Someone said that it doesn't matter if you know your stuff, you need exam technique for these exams. To what an extent is this true? I'm not looking for bad short cuts, just a realistic idea of how long it'd take me doing weekends and how is the best way to go about it. Again, I thank you all for your responses.

[Jasondoig]

As the rest say, it is possible,
I'm an Aeronautical Engineer, doing long hours and studying for the ATPL's. It has been hard, and I am in no doubt it'll remain difficult. I also have other commitments outside work and to be honest I'm scheduled to do three hours a night study for five days a week. I'm lucky if I can do that, but my background helps and I feel I can get away with less but not much. I don't like the idea that I'm scrimping on my studies and want to give it my all, the heart is willing, but by the end of the working day my mind is far from compliant. Having fallen asleep dribbling into my text books. If I could find a job that clears my debts and enables me to live I'd move at the drop of a hat if it gives me a fresher mind for studies and the time to do it.
The key is motivation, I know it's obvious, but it comes easy at the beginning and it'll pull you through but 15+ weeks of no real rest or relaxation takes its toll, and you need to be able to find your motivation, mine jumped down a big hole over December, and the impact is frustration.
Dig deep and you can do it, but something is going to suffer. The means justifies the end!
If I had the cash I'd go full time.

Cheers. :)

[avrodamo]

Gangsta. I have a job where i work shifts, and i also do extra overtime to pay for the flying. The distance learning to a great part has made me a bit of a social outcast. I have a structured study timetable, but it leaves little spare time. It's no harder than i thought it was going to be, but keeping the motivation going sometimes can be difficult, especially when you get stuck on a section and can't see the wood for the trees!! Having said that if, like me your committed then you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, infact i'm almost quite looking forward to the exams.......did i really say that ????
Hope you come to the right decision <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Wor]

HI Gangsta <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Just to let you know that I am a little older than yourself but have done exactly what you are attempting to do Lived and worked in the city for 7 yrs then upd and left to join the Bae Boys in Spain in October. Was earning decent money etc etc if you wanna email me then maybe I can offer some advice........

[email protected]

Its fun revising for JAA exams Honest

[londonlad]

Something else I want to confess to. I've actually attempted the CAA exams twice before. I failed them both twice (just before the JARs came in). I was like 20 then. Bit silly. I know why I failed. Had just started seeing this sweedish bombshell and my evenings and nights were spent doing the wild thing rather than studying the way I should have been. Nothing comes easy and I now realise that. No pain no gain. I come to work every morning and walk onto the trading floor and want nothing more than to be walking into a cockpit. Since 16 I've been in debt because of my passion of flying. I just wanted to hold my horses a little to dive in-just until I graduated. Now that I have I was hopeing I could do a little more training and land a job in the USA (I have a green card). Thats not happening now. So I figure the time it takes me to get my JAA licences, hopefully the market should pick up and it'll open the european market to me too. Well-thats the plan anyway. Ok, for distant learning, who would recommend what groundschools and why? I've done Oxford and London Guildhall. Both failed me (or vice-versa should I say). But I want to give myself the best chance right now.

[Mister Gash]

I’ve an extremely demanding job along with a wife, two young kids and a big mortgage and I’m also about to take the plunge. I’m well aware of how difficult it’s going to be but I’m absolutely determined to work my a**e off to achieve my goal. If you want it badly enough, you’ll do it — end of story.

[londonlad]

Well hello all. Looks like my decision has been made a whole lot easier. I'm redundant as of Feb 6th. Can't believe the recent string of events. Oh well, blessing in disguise I hope.

[sam white]

hey GANGSTA.
only you can make the desision, I have given up all I know and jumped head first into a course at London Guildhall, I am still studying there now. I have friends that are on the distance learning course from here, apparantly the pass mark is better distance learning than residential, I can only put this down to the Minories pub across the road! With residential you will need all together 5 months out of work, although some people here still do some work for there old companies when they get time, Whereas with distance learning you may be done in just over a year(not to mention the fact that you will have no life apart from work and study for a year). A lot of people on this course with me used to work in the city and are in the same boat as you, We will all be here until april, so I would suggest it may be worth the walk down here to come and talk. As for the school here i cant fault it, we have a reasonable social as well. You said that you have done the exams (old) before, this will prove very useful as some of our guys have found. It is a big step to take but a the best one i have ever made (and i am still studying).
Sam White