Ryanair runway excursion

[guinnessty]

A Ryanair 737-200 apparently ran off the runway at Charleroi, Belgium earlier today

[BANGHER]

Where's the journos on this one then?

A Ryanair 737 being flown by the co-pilot with only 1hrs training on a PA28 skidded off the runway.. angry pax were heard screeming as they spilt their coffee at £1.50 a cup!

"Your'e fired, and no you don't get your £20K training cost back"

The Captain said as he pulled himself off the Hostee!

Don't lets get out of hand... :D :D :confused:

[Departures Beckham]

I couldn't find anything on news sites, but flight FR045 from CRL to DUB was canx due tech*. Could be related or could be a coincidence.

*SOURCE: Flight Information at ryanair.com

[Stratocaster]

I also heard that. The airport was closed for a few hours yesterday (until early afternoon).

What's the sked of the CRL-DUB you mentioned, Departures Beckham ?

[Departures Beckham]

Strato: STD of 13:10 - STA of 13:40

All times are local

[airbourne]

Well done to the Ryanair hacks that kept that one out of the papers! Look at the fuss that was caused when the Euroceltic F27 went off the runway at SXL. Looks like MOL has another one of his grubby little hands up the jacksy of Fleet Street!

[Stratocaster]

1310 LOC ? So that's 1210 UTC, right ?

Mmmh... I'm not absolutely sure but I think I heard about it before that. Considering their reputation of making very short turn-arounds, it wouldn't have made a big difference (timewise) if it had happened on the preceding inbound landing...
Disregard, it must be my Alzheimer ! :D

So, did it happen on takeoff or landing ? Any detail ?

[Land ASAP]

Many (Not All) of the directors of our beloved media companies have large holdings in Ryanair. MOL is a wise man in handing out options like candy at a birthday party a few years back when the 'competition' was a bit more arrogant in the press office.

It'll haunt them but who'll report that?

[MarkD]

airbourne

offcourse excursions are regularly reported here and don't make the papers. Comparison to SXL?? Did the 73 end up with its nose in the drink? Not from what I've heard.

[Aviation Trainer too]

Land ASAP,

Don't forget they are probably sh*gging their hosties too and thus no reporting. They also have share holdings in the Sun and as they advertise on one of FR their aircraft they will not report, actually when walking the dog last night I saw all the directors of our beloved Media Companies in the woods doing some strange voodoo ritual. Could not hear what they where saying as the there was a gathering of the "pilots who talks b*llocks" society had a field day as well...

Other than that I think it is just an incident like it can happen to all of us! The less the press write about it and talk about like: AIRPORT SHOCK HORROR AS PLANE MAKES A WRONG TURN. The next time it could be you...

[airbourne]

Mark,

Rarely have i seen a report here of an a/c off the runway that hasnt been reported in the news. Remember the time the EI MD-11 went off the runway at Shannon. No need to report it, but RTE sent a news crew down!! There should be the same rule for everyone. Ryanair are not exempt from these things. Maybe what Land ASAP says is true!

[JW411]

airbourne:

I understood that the MD-11 which went off the runway at SNN was owned and operated by World Airways Inc and was in fact on wet lease to Aer Lingus for the summer. It certainly had an N registration on it when I saw it!

[JW411]

What I hear is this; the aircraft had completed its landing run at Charleroi and was making a 180º turn on the runway in order to backtrack. Whoever was driving it either misjudged the turn (or perhaps had a nosewheel steering failure) with the result that the outside mainwheels came off the hard surface, plopped gracefully into the soft grass and bogged in.

Whilst this could possibly not be seen as an upward career move it is merely an embarrassment and certainly not a life-threatening near-disaster.

Such taxiing incidents are surprisingly common. In fact, I seem to recall a cahp in Britannia doing something very similar with a 767 at LGW not long ago.

[airbourne]

JW,

Yes, that EI a/c was from World airlines. Its the MD11 that they lease each summer. But whats the point? That a/c just ran off the runway, like the Ryanair jet. Im not spliting hairs with you but reporting points should be applied at all standards.

[escortmk2]

I was on this flight and it wasn't a mis-judgement on a 180.
The a/c was going too fast and couldn't take the turn at the end of the runway.

[JW411]

escortmk2:

So are you telling us that the aircraft went straight off the end of the runway without making a turn? If that is indeed the case then I am happy to apologise but that is not what my spy in Charleroi told me. (He does not work for Ryanair by the way)!

[escortmk2]

They tried to take the turn and slid off. I'm no expert but speed was a factor.

[Land ASAP]

Runway Excursions -

Does Ryanair have trend analysis FDR? No.

Has the CAA given them another exemption for trend analysis FDR's installation, that is mandatory for all other established UK operators? Yes.

If the crew in question were at the correct speed over the threshold with serviceable brakes, would the incident have occurred? No.

If Ryanair had trend analysis FDR's would the crew have gone around knowing that if they had tried to land the FDR would have 'shopped them' to their safety department for excess speed during landing? Yes

Do runway excursions pose a threat to passengers? Yes, particularly at airfields with less charitable Stop ends such as Funchal and Luton.

Do the media overcook their reportage of other operators who they have a vested interest in casting slurs upon? Yes. The concorde rudder story was hardly dangerous compared to this.

[Topcover]

Just curious Land ASAP but why would the CAA be involved with an FDR exemption ? All Ryanair's aircraft are Irish registered with an Irish AOC.

[despegue]

The FR aircraft did NOT I say again did NOT do an overrun, but took the turn a bit to wide when manoeuvring for backtrack. Small mistake, no harm done though...
These things happen almost every day.
God it makes me angry to see such crap on the forum by would-be pilots. It is also very childish to put the name of the commander on this forum.
FR's AOC and regs. are Irish, a JAA country.
Britain can stand on their head, but FR only needs to comply Irish and JAA law, NOT the CAA one.
I am involved in Safety, and I must say that the FR safety management and culture is far better than some British ones...
example: FR is by my knowledge the only airline who puts on the seats next to the emergency exits other coloured headrest covers. Well done FR.
I do not work for FR, nor do I plan to in the near future, but as a commercial pilot, I do feel obliged to put some things straight here and uphold our profesionalism.
Goodnight,
Despegue

[BEagle]

Well said!

Much mud-slinging is done in RyanAir's direction - for no real reason other than jealousy at their success. That is thoroughly unworthy of our profession......

[maxalt]

Whose name? I didn't see it.
Censored?

Anyhow, coupla points.

If it was a misjudged 180 then its the inevitable result of all the high speed taxiing FR are known for.
Maybe they'll learn from this one.
Nobody got hurt.

Please stop taxiing like lunatics, FR chaps and chapesses? You should know by now that the Piano Keys are always ice rinks in the wet.

MOL will still be rolling around in money after you've flushed your licence and career down the toilet trying to keep him happy with his ridiculous turnaround times. Stuff him!

The best driver I ever knew lost his job over a stupid incident like this one. Wise up.

[BEagle]

Ridiculous turn round times? Or just efficient?

I flew back from Germany with FR recently; the inbound flight taxied at a totally normal pace onto chocks, the first passenger was out 104 seconds later and the first of the 107 outbound pax boarded 4 minutes after that. Bags off, bags on, pax brief given and we pushed back 20 minutes and 44 seconds after the ac had chocked in. But at no time was there any feeling of being rushed or hurried along.

I suspect that someone has looked carefully at all aspects of the operation, has identified where time was being wasted and has merely developed a slick operation. Compare that to those airlines where, after parking, there is an interminable wait for a jet way to be lowered. Then someone in a yellow coat with a squawking walkie-talkie turns up, wades slowly through the general declarations before permitting the SLF to disembark. Then there's a faff with the outbound flight because some business class punter has turned up late at the gate.....

No - I'm impressed with FR's style. "This is us. That's what you pay. You will need the booking number and acceptable photo ID. The gate closes at this time. Be there beforehand or you won't fly." Simple enough and clear enough. In flight the ac is kept tidy by the efforts of the cabin crew, so those no need for any cleaners to muck out the ac (have you seen the state that LH business class people leave the ac in, for example?). I don't particularly mind not having a specific seat number on a short trip - and again, it saves turn round time if the passengers just get in, find a seat and sit down.

Would I go back to paying around £50 extra for a Lufthansakaesebroetchen and a 'free' drink served at top-of-drop once the 'Someone else paid for my ticket' Class have been fawned over? Err, I don't think so...........

[jumpseater]

maxalt quote:
If it was a misjudged 180 then its the inevitable result of all the high speed taxiing FR are known for.

So the Britannia 767 that went into the mud at Luton a good few years ago (doing a 180), was the inevitable result of all the low speed taxying BAL are known for?

escort is obviously no expert, first they didnt make the turn at the end of the runway, because speed was a factor, yet it appears that the aircraft was making a 180 on a runway with a parallel taxiway, so a little clarification is needed


Land quote:
If the crew in question were at the correct speed over the threshold with serviceable brakes, would the incident have occurred? No.
Hmm.... please provide evidence that a: the aircraft was at an incorrect speed over the threshold, and b: the brakes were unservisable

This was a minor incident of which many similar have occurred previously see BAL above, and will occur again, it can happen to any operator for a whole variety of reasons, wonder if maxalt or Land will be so quick to comment in a similar vein if BA/Virgin or anyone else get stuck in the mud tomorrow? Perhaps they'd like to borrow my signature :p

[kriskross]

despegue,
With reference to different coloured headrest covers by emergency exits - so do easyJet. You may find it is to indicate where able bodied passengers MUST sit.

[escortmk2]

Thank you Sick,

My initial thought after touchdown was that the runway must be very long given the speed we were going at.
There was no real feeling of slowing down until we approached the end of the runway when there was very heavy braking.

[maxalt]

BEagle are you a pilot or SLF?

If you were a pilot (I suspect not) you'd know that flight STDs are usually works of fiction created by marketing bods in an office somewhere. In the real world of aviation nothing runs on time all the time.

While FR do a great job of shaving time off turnarounds (congratulations) the requirement is that the 'saved' time is used for an extra rotation. Thus when things go unavoidably off the rails (e.g. ATC delays or WX) the operation starts to go badly awry very quickly. There is no 'fat' in the system to compensate for delay.

The result is that crews are put under enormous pressure to keep the show on the road by whatever means possible. You can pretend to yourself that this isn't the fact, or that FR don't taxi faster than anyone else, but I have friends in FR who say they feel pressured into rushing around more than they are comfortable with. It's that kind of operation, like it or not.

Your crack at me is silly because I already told you a good friend of mine lost his job through a fast taxiing incident. Who's in denial here?

The point I'm making is...I'm gonna be damned sure it will never happen to me because of high speed taxiing.

Brake failure is one thing.

Rushing is another.

[BEagle]

maxalt - both.

I apologise if you thought that I was 'having a crack at you' - because there was no such intention. All I wanted to say was that on the flight I was referring to, all went very well. No rushing, fast taxiing or anything to raise the eyebrows over.

I reckon that some company chap has looked very carefully at all aspects of air transport operations and, having identified where time can be saved, has done so.

Good luck to the low-costs - and to UK regional airports!!

[batty]

It is very difficult to see the end of the runway from the terminal in Charleroi and to to be able to see exactly what had happened to the aircraft at the far end of the runway when you are a passenger lining up at the other end is very impressive indeed!!

I am very glad that passengers are becoming such experts at flying aircraft, next time I have a tricky landing to accomplish I will call down the cabin and ask of tips of all the experts.

I AM A PILOT I dont know what happened and so will not comment as to why the real experts on the flight had this small incident.

PS I was watching a medical program about a heart transplant the other week and I real dont think the surgeon did a very good job with his stiching at the end, could have done far better myself.


As for ''had the crew been at the correct speed and with servicable brakes the accident wouldnt have happened''. Well I think we can bin the accident investigation since we have an expert who obviously knows what he is talking about right here on the forum, dont quote about things you know nothing about.:mad:

[Silver Tongued Cavalier]

Sick, escortmk2, and maxalt are the only ones on this thread talking sense. Between them, you'll get the reason behind this A/C sliding off into the mud.

Nicely kept out of the media though! ;)

Do Ryannair have Ops Monitoring/Trend Analysis on their 800's? Oh hang on, on second thoughts, maybe it's better they didn't!!!!! Might lose them some precious seconds!!!

Slow down Guys/Gals!!!! It's just not worth it!!!!!!

[Crosswind Limits]

What's the LDA available at Charleroi?

[batty]

Reciprocal, ie the other end. If you were on the threshold of 25 they were on 07 or vica versa. I understand your meaning the reciprocal of the runway they landed on. I too wondered as to the logic of taking off towards an obstacle.

I am a pilot with probably much more experience of Charleroi than you my friend. As a fellow pilot I am surprised that you would speculate without knowing the facts of the matter.

This is an unfortunate incident that happens to all airlines, but as usual because its Ryanair people have to take a pop and scaremonger. When the results are know discuss it but until then leave the investigation to the investigators and just report the facts without the speculation.

[jacko2]

The aircraft landed deep and fast. the captain took control and tried to stop but couldn't ,then tried to turn off at the end and the aircraft ended up ten metres into the grass with the nosewheel 90 degrees off. FACT

[AtlPax]

. . . and a go-around wasn't considered? Would've made things easier (and safer) me thinks (IMHO). :(

[smoke me 2 kippers]

I understand that the britannia at LGW went off the runway onto a section of grass that had been "SPRAYED WITH TARMAC" as a temporary measure for expediting passage of maintenance vehicles. More details available on the AAIB site.
Guess he could be excused a little for that one!!