CASA crackdown

[axiom]

I am going to the Alice Sprigs surfboat championships shortly and am perplexed by the CASA threats to my liberties in flying there from redneck country, NSW.

I received today a further message from our regulator subsequent to a threat on the 12th November 2002, about how they are going to ramp and persecute all and sundry around Ceduna and Leigh Creek on the day of the solar eclipse. Goodness gracious me !

The message, which I did not open said, "aviation safety arrangements for the viewing of next weeks solar eclipse in outback South Australia are being upgraded ! ? ! ???????

The original email, which is now quiet honestly being intrusive and "glunking" up my hard drive, mentioned things like;

"the CASA will carry out special safety checks as well as monitoring operations in the area"

"Two CASA inspectors will be based in Ceduna, checking pilot activities and inspecting some aircraft"

As my trip to YBAS will also include a reunion of nudist dentist assistants and old Readers Digest readers academics, I am seriously contemplating staying at home in bed for the duration of the 4th December extravaganza.

If the "event" is being upgraded by CASA one can only imagine that they will double the bureacratic involvement and, "curse the drought, our overtime comes first", One shudders at the quota levied on these individuals for a success strike.

If anyone gets ramped, please email me; these threats taken in their true and contemptuous meaning and being carried through, smack of a serious breach of civil liberties.

Before you carry on,,, Did you know that CASA applied for an exemption of the sex and disability discrimination (5 years), (something about pregnant females or limbless and decapitated pilot applicants), but who cares ?

The thgought just struck me, If CASA are upgrading the event, this thread may go from a debate to a mass debate.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[nasa]

If you have nothing to hide, why then do you want to hide :confused: :confused: :confused:

Oh and a question for all and sundry "What are Civil Liberties"

[axiom]

Civil liberties are what CASA are trying to circumvent with their application for exemption from the sex and equal opportunities and,,, I have nothing to hide, but object to some jumped up bureacrat acting like "Colonel Klink", and demanding my participation in his excuse to justify his job. ( Is he still around?), perhaps you are he, Do you have nothing to hide??

I bet I could find something to prosecute you on if (heaven forbid), I was a CASA ramp expert.

Like I said, if you go, see, and get ramped, email me. I would like to see what they get you on and how long it takes.

And yes, I have been privy to their petty antics and it was disturbing, counter productive, time wasting, and intrusive, not to mention, "rude".

Have a good day mate. (nasa) Rings a bell.

[the wizard of auz]

If you do get ramped, just say nothing, lock up your aircraft and walk away from it. What are they going to do to you then?.........after they prove beyond all resonable doubt that it was actually you in the aircraft to start with. they can't physically restrain you and if you say nothing it puts the onus on them straight up............biggest thing is say nothing.

[compressor stall]

Have a photo copy of CAR 302 (?).

It states what items are to be produced for inspection.

They are (for domestic flight):

MR
Licence and med
Flight Manual
Pax/Freight manifests

And that's it! No you do not have to produce maps. No you do not have to produce weather. etc.

CS

[Torres]

Axiom. The vexatious, aggressive, uncouth, abusive Col. Klink!

I was, with monotonous regularity, the subject of his abuse and attempts at deprivation of all rights and liberties.

He was one of the old school - probably reform school - good guy for a beer or three on a hot day but he has now sadly retired to raise Llamas in Tibet - or some such thing!

I had a soft spot for the old ba$tard and CASA in his part of Australia is worse for his passing.

[OpsNormal]

Before you get too worked-up about civil liberties being invaded....... ;)

At least they have taken the time to say out loud what their intentions are in as much as being there. If they are gonna drag airworthiness inspectors out with them to the show, then some fun and games might ensue therein.

Stallie is spot-on, licence, medical, MR and flight manual are the main required items. They might ask to see your CURRENT charts, and your logbook within seven days too. Unfortunately they have a job to do, whilst at the same time you have yours. If you don't know your rights, then learn them. They are not legally allowed to interfere with private property, ie "Can I have a look inside"? , answer, "Yep, through the window".

They have no business to withold the egress or the movement of your passengers to, from or within the aircraft. If your passengers are being delayed unduely, then ask the FOI if he would mind continuing this check at a later time during the day, and stick to that arrangement. If he says "No, this will only take a couple of minutes", suggest to him/her that the interference of a commercial operation is not within his scope of investigation, and you'd be more than happy to subject yourself to his ramp check at a later time when the pax are somewhere away from here.

Do not offer anything that you haven't been asked a direct question about, and refrain from smartar$e comments and the like. If you believe that you are being asked leading questions about your organisation or company, refuse to answer them without legal representation. Remember, he doesn't have to substantiate where he gets his info from, but you have to defend your position if it comes to a court of law.

Unfortunately, we have to endure these "little pleasures of life" from time to time. Just seek direction from your CP as to how the company wants you to handle it if you are ramped.

Have a great flight, and be safe.

[Not_Another_Pot]

What about private ops??

Are the requirements the same?

I thought that you had to have current maps etc!

Do I require a passenger manifest?

NAP

[axiom]

Yes mate; pass me a beer would you ! Forget the pot, I'm silly enough now.;)

[Pseudonymn]

Poor NAPpy,

You just can't win, can you?

;) :D ;) :)

[nasa]

You're right Torres......Nice guy to have a beer with :D :D

Got sprung by him in Tvl many years ago delivering an Islander to Cairns. Thing of it was, we didn't have a rego on the Aircraft.....Had a letter from one of the Col's compartriots in AF saying it was OK.....Should have seen the look on his face....I don't think the blades had finished spinning before he turned up along side the aircraft.....Produced the said document and he still wouldn't accept that we was kewl :D :D

Civil Liberties.....What are they ?????

Done a lot of things in my time axiom, but ringing bells is not one of them :p :p If my profile don;t tell you who I am, then e-mail me or ask Torres, both of us would be more than happy to tell you :cool: :cool:

[Not_Another_Pot]

/me slaps Pseudonymn with a large trout!!

NAP:D:D

[OpsNormal]

NAPpy, talk to yer on TAF ;)

[Not_Another_Pot]

No worries ute man;)

[Torres]

nasa. Knowing some of the Islanders of your acquaintence I'm surprised it was only lack of rego the Colonel got you for! :D :D

Yeah, Col Klink was a good guy. You could have a blazing row with him, get threatened with a double life sentence, then meet up with him in the pub after work for a beer. When coming to visit me - which was all too frequent - he used to throw his hat through the office door first!

If the Colonel gotcha, it was fair and square. None of the games some CASA staff play these days.

[kimwest]

A Couple of items to remember: If you are asked a question, answer that question, and that question only. Don't be tempted by silence to keep talking - that is where CASA gets most of the info.
Absolutely correct, a CASA FOI (or whatever) does NOT have the right to impede the conduct of a commercial operation.
You are quite within your rights to request (insist) that the ramp check be completed after the passengers have been escorted fro the aircraft.
Read up on refuelling procedures, distances from refuelling points, distances between aircraft etc...
A good rejoinder is, if you percieve that the FOI is being rude to you, ask them "Excuse me, but am I being rude to you?" The answer should be no. Then ask them " Can I ask you why are you being rude to me?".;)

[hadagutful]

CASA crackdown, what a joke!

I don't think they have the resources but I guess if 'they' are a bit bored with dreaming up new rules, a good old jolley out to the real world is a nice break.

Incidentally, the existing paper licence (supposedly ICAO standard) is a disgrace.
It is next to useless when it comes to security ID without a photo.
I actually refuse to carry mine as it is another piece of paper to get in the way and more importantly, I believe it is invalid because it states I'm a British citizen.

I'm actually an Australian.

Only a minor detail I suppose!!

[axiom]

I said on the airport security post that my licence says I am British, yet Australian born.

I am told by my "brudders" that I am European, (I think we were fighting the Europeans when first settlement took place in Aust),

As a farmer I am a landholder, but I paid money for freehold land and my bank reckons I am the owner when it comes to not making payments.

I have a water licence which gives me about 75% less than my allocation because some green ideologist thinks the water is better being flushed down the Snowy River in to the ocean and our Deputy Prime Minister, (AKA the Minister for things flying and Regional Australia), was locked out of a critical debate with State Premiers and JH.

BUT we got tighter gun control laws.

I suppopse that now we have no starving stock to feed we don't have to shoot them and, the "winging" farmers don't need guns..... So we'll give the farm aid to a gun buyback of pistols.

Great, I can just see all the criminals lining up to hand in their automatics for the rich rewards offered by the Gov't.

Am I the only person out of synch with this world????

Bring back the gladiators, it keeps the pissants busy and they will forget about being shafted by all and sundry. (sorry footy.),

Finally, airport security is a hugh joke, but then again, who cares??

[Wagit]

So CASA is out to get all!!!!!!!!!

How many at the eclipse sighting got ramped and lost their licence because of the ramp check? and Why?

How many even got ramped?

Next there will be reds under my bed!!!!!!!!

:) :) :)

[axiom]

They missed me, mate, because I didn't go;

Why 2 warnings if they didn't mean business and,

We'll never know unless someone tells us and I guess this is "commercial and in confidence" to anyone seeking an FOI.

As far as "reds under the bed" go, I saw blokes like you when I marched past the Sydney Town Hall in uniform.

We are overgoverned, overtaxed, over regulated, and it makes me cringe when I see and hear people defending the bureacrats who are defending the undefensible.

This lot cost me inxs 100K and still refuse to admit liability or fault in a situation that could and has the corollory to jeopardise human life.

Forget the gun debate if you like, what's the difference?

people's lives are still at stake because nobody will change things because of a perceived threat to their bloody jobs.

1) Read the Phealan papers,

2) If you think this is crap, join the "Cathay Club".

[Ultralights]

wonder how casa would have taken to my AUF rego and licence, ( i do hold a commercial CASA licence as well) but my aircraft is AUF registered. hmmmm wonder if they are familiar with the AUF operations manual.

[Wagit]

axiom

I agree: "We are over governed, overtaxed, over regulated"

Now what are you going to do about it??????????????

I suppose we could whinge and wine to our local member or even bitch and belly ache on a forum like this.

Maybe we can write articles like Paul Phelan does. Great journalism!!!!!!!!!!! (Remember he has to sell the article to his editor and it must be entertaining or it don't get printed)

I would be interested in how you would change the aviation industry so as to prevent accidents, death rates in aircraft, insurance premiums from rising etc etc…..

Don’t get me wrong axiom I don’t believe our aviation regulators have got it right. They spend to much time believing if it is illegal it is unsafe.

Making a law doesn’t increase safety!!!!!!!!! It is a bit like people wanting our courts and legal system to hand out justice, they normally don’t get any justice they just get the law. Just as there is no justice in our legal system is there any safety??????????????

[axiom]

Kind words wagit;

For a start I would offer someone in the middle eschelon CASA a bribe (I can afford about $100) to "whistleblow" on the "old boy's, (Klink included), and even on to the new boys who would not be allowed to give voice to their concerns. (want to chip in ?).

There is a culture of sorts that is not quiet what AOPA and the like have been deliberating for years upon.

Firstly, there is what's called in military circles, a code of advocacy supervision whereby the new inductee is given over to an old seasoned wag and "learned the ropes".

These blokes are not given a chance to see what due process is all about and are in effect "brainwashed".......yeh! yeh! reds under the bed..

Until the whole rotten gang is publically humiliated and forced out into the open, they will stand behind the weakest Minister for things flying ever and blame the "system" and the system will have more inquiries.

This lot cover for their mates to the extent of criminal negligence and use piblic safety as the reason for their existence.

Secondly, the whole show is run and orchestrated by a bunch of bureacrats and lawyers who don't give a whit about safety and they need a serious matter (read that as a major crash), to bring about a stage for their incompetence. Heaven help us if it happens!

And thirdly, the aviation sector in Australia (read this as a minority group), need cohesiveness from the blowtorch mob to the ultralights. Something we don't have at the moment and being exploited by our "saviours" to no end.

Finally, if I could afford it, I would have the lot who f***ked with my retirement at the bench to account for their actions.

As a sub sequence, I would press all who have been shafted to get behind their strongest member of parliament and embarass them until the do something. Be pragmatic enough to go to the opposition or beyond to get some sort of a result, and, get the matter into the Senate whenever there is a strong and forceful enough inquiry into aviation.

One other thing; Sack the present Director of aviation safety/ AKA new CEO and start afresh with someone who learnt to fly in Australia and has Australia as a place of aviation priority, not Europe.



Remember, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Axiom;

Brother, you were making a lot of sence right up to when you proposed a full revolution with the de-throning of Mr T.

You have identified the biggest-est problem CASA has which is the area offices and the front-line Gestapo FOI's.

My guess is that with the board gone, you might actually see some action now that a few guys up top can operate without having to run to the board first. The board was a cushy club made up of political appointees who didn't want to rock the boat.

When the day comes that I can get an AOC change through in just three weeks instead of three months or longer - is the day that some reform has really happened.

[Bevan666]

Well the CASA crackdown and the expected air movements at Ceduna did not eventuate. When I arrived in Ceduna at 4pm on Wednesday, there was ~20 aircraft on the ground. No sign of any CASA inspectors either.

Seems to me if anyone hears from CASA that they will be ramping people somewhere, thats one place they wont be.

Did anyone get ramped at Leigh Creek?

Bevan..

[Desert Flower]

No, no-one got ramped at Leigh Creek. The "powers that be" did not visit there, nor the strip at nearby Lyndhurst. Over 3 days (Wed. Thurs & Fri) a total of 48 aircraft passed through Leigh Creek. :)

[Skyway]

Why are so many people worried about ramp checks. I have had a number of them to date and everyone has been a rewarding experience. The only hardball was the maintenance experts, they say nothing and check your plane. The guys checking your licence ect, are great, they have been there done it before and know what it is like. Every time I have passed with flying colours and received letters to that effect.

I'd like to think that they might pull up operators, not Pilots, who continually run risks in running the show,, after all how many Pilots out there don't want to be home for dinner and sweets.

If you really have a gripe with the way CASA does things, then play the game, they list all NPRM and they are there for comment, get involved.



P.S. When I started flying 6 years ago there where a lot more Private Pilots, they are slowly becoming a dime a dozen or reverting to ultra light. Let us all promote flying as a safe fun adventure that it is. We can do this by starting to be the best we can and through positive media coverage.

[axiom]

Skyway me old mate !

I feel warm and fuzzy already !!

When I got my licence in 1965 I had # 29***

Now (2002), I am 04****

Same digits, same bods, STATIC mate.

How many NPRM's have you commented on and did you really understand them all ?

Have you seen the bunfight going on over Proposed part 11 ?

Why did it take my flying club nearly 12 months to get an aircraft added to their AOC ?

"Play the game, be involved"

"Play the game, be invalidated"

Sorry mate, been there done that, seen too much to become a convert now. Didn't see the "Colonel" in action did you?

"WHO" CALLED ME PARANOID ?

[Skyway]

Axiom,

My post was not to stir you up. If thats what it did, I sincerly apologise.

I merely suggest that the ramp check officials are no more than the Police of the sky, they enforce rules and regs made by others.
This, in my opinion is a nescessary thing.

Yes you are right there are so many NPRM and have been many in the past, each one passing, yet comments or relplies made by individuals may not be in favour of.

My concern is that the Attitudes towards rules and regs is turning away hundreds of potential wannabees, just stand around the club bar and hear the talk. To the new bloke listening in, everything starts to sound to hard and eventually turns to kite surfing or wake boarding for enjoyment.

I believe we need to all take notice of whats going on and voice our opinions, the people who need to will eventually listen. If you dont believe that then where all %$#$%$!

As to understanding NPRM, no I dont understand a lot of them, but I ring and bug the $%#$ out of them to find out. I had a CFI once who could not interpret an AIP ammendment, He was one of the best CFI's I have come across, could rattle off any reg or rule, so I learnt from the start that the writing was all in Law jargon. In fact a very good friend of mine who was studying his 4th year Law helped me with some of the theory and even he had trouble, goes to show.

Again, no stress Axiom, I am just early into my career and wish to see the industry move into a positive future rather than the other way around.

[axiom]

STRUTH !

Police of the sky !

These guys promulgate the rules, administer the rules, prosecute the rules and punish you according to the rules which they made up.

Read carefully a quote from an email loop I am involved in;

"The regulations are made by Parliament so CASA cannot be sued for simply complying with the regulation, provided the regulation allows CASA no discretionary scope"

(they make the laws for Parliament to rubber stamp).

"As soon as you add an element of discretionary scope to a regulation it opens the door to liability for the Authority"

(They make the rules so that everything is illegal, thus no discretionary powers are involved and therefor no liability).

"(CASA), is now fairly paraniod about being sued and is almost totally directed towards self protection instead of progress. As a consequence it is now being seen as a substantial obstruction to trade."

Should I go on ?

We are in the throes of meaningful change in so far as Ted Anson, Chairman of the CASA Board (and still there until 30th June 2003) is concerned.

John Anderson has announced a consultative Industry liasion body be set up to promulgate the laws for Parliament, (so CASA does not),

CASa should be doing what it's mandate allows it, to administer the laws, and, no, to date nothing has been said about who will prosecute the laws. But god help us if CASA continue to be the "Police of the sky".

Read the Australian Constitution chapters 1, 2 and 3 and with particular emphasis on chapter 3, the separation of the powers.

See then why a mob of bureacrats cannot be allowed to be judge, jury and executioner at whim, but still maintain they are acting without discretionary powers, and are therefor untouchable.

I have mates within CASA and a lot more outside, but even those within can see the writing on the wall. These guys don't know what due process is all about because they have'nt been taught.

They have even less knowledge about the rule of law and many abuse the trust that blokes like you have in them.

Have faith brother, you'll need it in any aviation career you undertake.

I admire your innocence !



:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Chimbu chuckles]

Skyways i hate to say it but man are you in for a shock:D

Chuck.

[axiom]

Nice of you to email me skyways, but I guess the heat is too hot on the kitchen for you to reply to mine.

If you have something, let me know, or at least post a reply saying you adhere to CASA rules and I'll know SNAFU !

I'll understand as will all.

[Screw Jac]

Let em look through the window...great sentiments!

Give em nothing its hard the first ramp I copped took two hours!
4 pax, two hours fuel in a PA31.....you work it out! Must have been overweight!!

Anyways the next time, big charter group two aircraft, about to board and this ...... is crawling all over the plane.

No introduction to myself or the passengers. It caused concern to myself the other pilot and the passengers.

Had he come over and said something along the lines "Folks we're from the friendly CASA, conducting a random check, we're sure all is well, but we just want to be sure....."


I simply presented all the info as alluded to above, told the lil fella he was impeding a commercial operation and Id be back at x hours. Handed over my mobile number and said I had to go, unless there was something important stopping me. There was nothing.

They have a job to do so do I..

BUT UNTIL THEY SHOW RESPECT TO WHOM THEY REGULATE, WHY SHOULD WE GIVE THEM THE TIME OF DAY?
I had nothing to hide, complied with the extent that I'm required that's all!

.......Don't give em anything you dont have to. Its always been the case that most people in talking volunteer everything needed for a successful prosecution within 10 minutes.... Get a lawyer, say nothing and refer all matters to the Chief Pilot.

As Homer Simpson said "Keep your darn fool mouth shut and dont make it worse"

And so i advise:D