Flight Crew is Dangerous Job

[Unwell_Raptor]

Today's Sun says that flight deck crew have the third most dangerous job!

See:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2002550288,00.html

[Spitoon]

Obviously the risks of food poisoning and dehydration are more serious than I thought. :)

More seriously though, is that average salary correct? And what exactly is a flight deck officer?

Just goes to show you can do pretty much anything with statistics I guess.

[petelovell]

flight deck officers are people that work on aircraft carrier flight decks

[nick24]

Why is Robbie Williams dressed up as a fireman, as illustrated on the graphic?

[Konkordski]

The Sun obviously doesn't have any war correspondents :rolleyes:

[Superpilut]

Well, if we're not aircraft flight deck officers, can we then be compared better with number 10, Lorry drivers?:D :D

[A and C]

The biggest risk in my day is the drive on the M25 to gatwick week days I can cope with but the weekends now that is real high quality risk !.

[McGinty]

I am currently undertaking research into the occupational health and safety of pilots and flight attendants, and so the data reported in the Sun is of some interest to me.

There are two things that seem wrong with the data. First, the salary seems rather low. And second, one would expect that for each flight deck officer killed there may be one or two flight attendants killed as well in the same crash, thus making their job as effectively risky as that of the flight deck officer.

I suspect that the authors of the original study have actually taken the deaths of "on-board air crew" and have assumed that they are all flight deck crew as opposed to pilots and cabin crew. The lowish salary may come from adding cabin crew and flight deck crew salaries together and averaging them.

I have recently been looking for definitive data on injury rates (not death rates) for on-board airline employees and have only just found one source of data from Canada.

A report at this site

http://info.load-otea.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/~oshweb/oicccurrent/Adobe_e/oicc9397.pdf

states that "The Air Transport industry as a whole showed a disabling injury rate frequency rate....which is amongst the highest rates by industrial sector." This comment relates to combined on-board and off-board injuries, and in fact the rate for on-board is lower than for off-board injuries. But the on-board rate is still high compared to other sectors.

I have summarised the statistics as follows: if you are an on-board airline employee (pilot or flight attendant) you will have an injury rate that is two and a half times greater than that of the average worker.

[mikecr2]

I took a statistical analysis class in college and remember a few interesting things about the risks of flying:

-You are far more likely to die from eating peanut butter than from an airplane.

-5 times as many people drown in their own bathtubs every year than die in an airplane.

-If you took a week vacation to anywhere in the world on any airline, the safest time of your entire trip (statistically) would be the time you spend sitting on the airplane.

-Yet some people spend this time worrying the whole time about dying, and then happily jump into their car and speed down the highway with all the drunks, teenagers, and race car wannabes thinking their safe when instant death is zipping in the opposite direction just 2 feet away.

-People who take the bus or rent a car to travel because they think it is somehow safer do not have a firm grasp on reality.

-I would rather take my chances in the clouds with a bunch of professionals any day.

-Life is a risk, live it!

[Fat Dog]

McGinty

As previously mentioned, these flight deck officers are military aircraft carrier workers. One of the most dangerous places on earth to work. Hence it's placing and the very low salary due to working for the military :)

[Unwell_Raptor]

"As previously mentioned, these flight deck officers are military aircraft carrier workers. One of the most dangerous places on earth to work."

Tricky one this.

i) It says aircraft flight deck, not ship's flight deck

ii) The UK only has a coouple of mini-carriers without catapults, and to get the death rate up that far there would have to be a holocaust!

The stats do look a bit suspect - I might even look up the original research.

PS The Times has lifted the graphic from The Sun today.

[GS-Alpha]

I seem to remember reading something like this in the papers a while ago. On that occasion the statistics were based on the likelyhood to be killed if involved in an accident at work. It wasn't necessarily a reflection of how likely you were to have an accident in the first place?

[A Very Civil Pilot]

fish - click on the poster on the Sun article, (reproduced below)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2002550296,00.jpg

[EDDNHopper]

The most dangerous thing in life is living. Living always, always has a fatal end.

;)

(Sorry, had to say that...)

[MaximumPete]

Retirement looks a safe bet!

[Jump Complete]

The graphic says 'deaths per 100000 worker years.'
Perhaps they've taken either:
Deaths of airline pilots (or 'Aircraft Flight Deck Officers'!)
since airline flying began (and was more dangerous than it is now)
or
deaths of all pilots everywhere since the Wright brothers.
ie: Samual Codys flying circus and comtempories,
Royal Flying Corps Sopwith Camel pilots,etc
Battle of Britain Pilots and Bomber Command aircrew
etc etc
Averaging out the good saftey record of now with the appaling record of some of the above might produce a result like that!:confused:

Just an idea!

[PickyPerkins]

I feel that there is a line missing from the Sun table.

The line should be for “General population, risk of dying in a road accident”

I don’t know the numbers for the UK, but for the USA it would read about 16 per 100,000, and therefore appear immediately below “Dockers and Stevedores“ and immediately above “Lorry drivers”. (About 40,000 deaths per year of drivers [including truck drivers], passengers, and pedestrians, in a population of 249M.)

The point I want to make is that ALL the people on the list run the road risk in ADDITION to their work risk.

So, for instance, if the road risks are about the same for the UK as for the USA, then “Painters and Decorators” are about three times more likely to die on the road during their off work time as they are at work.

The article says the study was “carried out ……. for the International Transport Federation“. It seems to have been well worth doing. It underlines how dangerous the roads are in comparison to many (most?) work environments.

BTW, based on the last two years, the chances in the USA of dying on the roads are about 26 times higher than of dying in a terrorist attack, in the air or on the ground. (80,000 deaths on the road vs. 3,000 in terrorist attacks)



http://home.infi.net/~blueblue/_uimages/pi.gif

[McGinty]

Note that the data quoted by the Sun comes from 1979 to 1983, so it is very much out of date.

But also note that the Sun's data refers just to FATAL accidents.

The INJURY data (e.g getting hurt but not dying) that I cited from the Canadian Government Occupational Health and Safety statistics indicates that on-board workers suffer a much higher injury rate than the average worker.

So the injury data does confirm that air crew do work in a dangerous environment.

The interesting question though is who is actually getting injured while in the air? Are the pilots and the flight attendants getting injured at the same rate because of crashes, turbulence etc?

Or is it predominantly the flight attendants who suffer most of the injuries?

The Canadian data shows an injury rate of around 17.5 injuries per 100 on-board airline workers per year. By comparison, the average Canadian worker injury rate is 6.4 injuries per 100 workers per year.

[Hotel Charlie]

Hi all!

Someone referred to Airline travel beeing the safest form of travelling. Yes and thank God it is! But as a proffesional pilot flying 600-1000 hr a year you are a lot more exposed than the general public. So yes, in the long run it may catch up with You! When you have been in the business for a while you will have friends or at least know people that will die from this. I unfortunatly have a couple myself! Ask your accountant how many of his colleagues have died because of their job (leaving out heartattacks)?
I once saw something about pilots beeing more likely to die in a plane accident than a car accident. Then again we are excellent drivers! ;)
Keep it safe Y´all

[Bigears]

Unwell_Raptor, the research dates from, at least, 1983 (bottom rhs of Sun graphic). Didn't we have a 'proper' carrier or two then?

I'm very sceptical of the wages quoted- window cleaners (eg) won't declare their total earnings- just pocket most as its cash and pay tax on the smallest amount they can get away with.
Well thats what I would do :rolleyes:

[Pax Vobiscum]

Life assurance offices (whose job it is to know about these things) don't normally charge an extra premium for civil aircrew. Military aircrew will pay an extra premium of around 70p per annum for each £1,000 sum assured - equivalent to 70 deaths per 100,000 worker years.

If you want a seriously dangerous profession, become a publican!

PV

An actuary is someone who wanted to be an accountant, but didn't have the personality for it.

[Hap Hazard]

:D Dont get too excited folks, after all you are commenting on an article by the SUN, that gospel of truth, that treats their readers as brain dead morons!

[S76Heavy]

How about offshore helideck crew? A few have been killed by helicopter blades, and there aren't that many around, so statistically that's a high risk profession.
I certainly think it is..

[Deadleg]

The "Sun" would'nt really care who had the most dangerous job, just so long as she had big tits!

[clearair]

I reckon there are a lot of hidden dangers in flying such as radiation effects, DVT etc.


But why stop doing a job u love because of health scares!?!

[Strobin' Purple]

Lies, damned lie and statistics!
They must've included military stats to come up with aircrew being 3rd riskiest.
As previously stated, the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis is drive a car. It's not quite the automotive lottery that the US has though Picky, a mere 3000 fatalities out of 58m. So that means that Brits are better drivers than Yanks by a factor of 3!....only joking honest! :)

[Ace Rimmer]

Big Ears
Nope, the last 'proper' carrier Ark Royal (not to be confused with the current Ark which is Invincable class) went to the breakers in about 1978 I think. There was an excellent fly on the wall documentary about its last deployment At the end of the last episode they took the "holy terror Fleet Chief PO" to the breakers to look at the ship some months later when there was virtually sod all left of the the thing...moved him to tears as I recall.

[Bigears]

Ace Rimmer, I stand corrected, thanks- I must be getting old :rolleyes:
Unwell_Raptor, apologies to you :)