Air Asia [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Usman

24th Dec 2002, 03:43

Air Asia is a good place for Malaysian pilots looking for a longer job career than being in MAS.

After next election 2004 I'm sure there will be a big revamp (retrenchment) in MAS as it is guzzling too much of tax payers account, even though BN wins. They are not retrenching now for fear of losing the votes.

Petronas RM3 billion profit is down to RM1.3 billion simply to subsidise MAS. Petrol price is being upped twice in 6 months to cover loses in MAS.

The BN govt is chasing after errant tax payers and EPF is after employer who had not settled their workers account. This had not happened before shows that the BN is getting short of cash.

The national purse is fast shrinking and BN needs money badly after taking care of all the loses in govt aided multi-corporation all these years. The government cannot afford any drastic action to resize airline for the time being until 2004 when they hope to win the election.

That is why I say Air Asia is a better bet for long term employment than in MAS.

Hachiouji-shi

24th Dec 2002, 09:39

Employees of Air Asia got their 3 months bonus recently and are projecting a 6 months bonus next year. Also the sixth aircraft is coming in a few days time. Analysis shows that it is progressing well and in deed, it's a place where one would have to work hard, and the harder you work the more you get. Now we're talking about meritocracy!

turbspeed

27th Dec 2002, 18:43

Dear Usman-san, That conspiracy theory of yours was very much entertaining and we in MAS felt kinda shacky a bit, the least to say. Be it for your self assurance or just a plain speculation, again we're extending our gratitude to such a remark. It was briefly mentioned by our MD a couple of months back but it was never materialised for somewhat we heard was greatly opposed by the cabinet. However, such speculation will deter the working environment in MAS and I must say it should be stopped. All of us here appreciate a sincere remark but not to the extent details which repercussion will just cause a havoc against the ruling party. MAS has seen the worst of its golden years and most of us have worked equally hard in bringing the airline back up to its status where it was before and such a speculation will just put our efforts to nowhere.

Thank You.

turbspeed

28th Dec 2002, 04:41

Usman-san, Your conspiracy theory is quite breathtaking I must say. But as a fellow pilot friend to you, I suggest that those kind of speculation should be stopped or maybe kept within your circle of peers in AirAsia. Rumours or remarks like that will only spark some ill feelings towards the ruling party and the consequences of doing so will just deter the working environment in MAS. Most of us here have been working long and hard enough to ensure MAS of a spot back in the golden years. We don't need another speculation to ruin ALL our efforts again. The MD did briefly mention about downsizing the airline, meaning retrenchment, but it was targetted at different side of the airline operation. The frontliners, aircrew are still at a shortage. MAS have just leased 5 more A330 and signed up for 5 A380, to be delivered by year 2007. There were even plans to revamp the whole B737 fleet into A320 or the B737NGs for regional ops but it was put on hold for the time being. AirAsia is doing well in serving the Malaysians in air travelling but to state whether should one be happy to fly for them or not, lies in the hands of the individuals themselves.

Happy and safe flying to ALL.

Usman

30th Dec 2002, 03:54

My friend, MAS staff I'm sure had worked their guts out to re-energise the ailing airline. It's just some irresponsible greedy individuals who had screwed up the airline. The big rats had flown away while the gullible looks on not understanding the underlying factors.

From losing RM2million a day after 1997 to losing almost RM6mil a day after 911 it was a big surprise to see the airline being bailed out by DanaHarta. But money does not grow from trees it got to come from somewhere. It was difficult to comprehend from such an astronomical loss to suddenly being in the black again. Even United one of the biggest airline running on parallel loss had to go chapter 11.

jetsetter

31st Dec 2002, 22:31

dear ppruners....just would like to gather some info....I wonder how much will be a Malaysia Airlines B737 co pilot salary.....how much total they take every month....i heard mas IS the lowest paying airlines in the world!!! Can somebody clarify this...it will be better if we compare with Air Asia...

Thank you.

kwaiyai

1st Jan 2003, 12:22

I doubt it jetsetter, I was offered less money than AirAsia pay by a company in another country plus I had to pay for my own Typerating. I dont know what MAS get
Regards :cool:

SuperRanger

6th Jan 2003, 08:29

If you ask my personal opinion, nothing like sticking to the NATIONAL airline. I bet my last dollar, the day MAS closes shop is the day the country closes shop. I'm not bother where the $$$ comes from as long as i gets my pay check.

Ask those who flew for Pelangi, Seaga, and what have you. for these businessmen, the day the airlines doesn't make $$$. Off you go, no qualms. No social responsibilities.

So, guys, think carefully!

mirifly

28th Jan 2003, 08:38

Just to inform you hopefuls that Air Asia will only take Malaysians, it is impossible for 'foreigners' to get work permits.

Don`t know how they will manage in the long term but thats the
score for the moment so save your stamps!!

PILOST

29th Jan 2003, 03:56

I personally think it's a bit premature to discount expats in Air Asia.Presently even MAS has a few expats running around.

What I am implying is that before Air Asia can hire expats, they need to prove to the Gov't that they are no locals which can fill the vacant post/s.The big ad was a first step to meet their requirements.If the locals can fill up the jobs then good for everybody, if not Air Asia will have to look for 'cheap' expats or revise their ticket prices to pay for the extra wages.

Heard on the grapevine that the former will hold true.........as it is, it's a hirer's market now.

Safe Flying All.
:cool:
PILOST

miharbik c&t

29th Jan 2003, 05:49

How long will it take the Airasia to convince the "gov" to hire foreigners when there is rumor of 8 new aircraft arriving this year...that is alot of crew?

Just informed...."we want you, we need you but we cannot give you a work permit because you are not Malaysian"...my question is why go through all of the effort?

Airbus Lover

16th Feb 2003, 03:10

9M-AAG will be here soon and that is their 7th B733. According to an Air Asia engineer, they will be up to 15 planes end of this year. At a rate of almost one every month.

They sure will need MANY pilots and currently I do not think there are enough locals to fill the vacancies.

Good luck guys!

Rhumb Line

18th Feb 2003, 10:54

That is good news. I am an expat with a Frozen ATPL and have lived in SE Asia for most of my life. I poped my application in the post yesterday. Does anybody know how long until they reply, and what the selection process consists of ?

MEGAMAN

18th Feb 2003, 11:07

Dear Mr Rhumb line in the other way, I am an asian race and having nearly 10.000 hrs in heavy jets, do you think I got tha change to get a job in UK or somewhere in europe, send the address to apply, many thank's brother

Rhumb Line

19th Feb 2003, 08:53

With all due respect sir the airlines in the UK actively pursue an open door policy regarding recruiting non UK nationals in flightdecks. Ryanair alone have 40% no UK flight crews just for one example. We have an abundance of Antipodeans in the country who spend the majority of the time criticising the country but are all to happy to accept a jet job when one comes available. Yet I dont hear a word of complaint from myself or the hundreds of other new recruits coming from Oxford or Cabair. It is just the way things are.
I dont think I should be criticised for making an application on spec to Air Asia. I would not dream of taking a job that a Malaysian national has a right to, but yet if there are not enough locals to fill the posts then bring in the expats.

miharbik c&t

19th Feb 2003, 18:27

Well put Rhumb Line.

flyingchinaman

20th Feb 2003, 04:35

heard that AirAsia needs 200 guys within this 2 years~!
local guys top priority!

MAS too~! lack of crew~! 70 guys short

best time to get off ones ass and work for a license.

PILOST

21st Feb 2003, 06:47

Yes, the fat lady sang & was told that expats are being considered seriously or are being recruited now.

Was informed that 'discarded' MH's expat skippers are being pursued by Air Asia.Hope they handle them carefully as they are very 'hot potatoes'.

Ironically it's a pilots' market here in Malaysia especially with regards to the locals as both MAS & Air Asia are feverishly recruiting to cater for the proposed expansion programme for the 2 companies.

Good times are rolling in!

Safe Flying All!

:cool:
PILOST

Rhumb Line

21st Feb 2003, 13:40

That is really good news to hear. As I said I put my application in the other day, so I will keep you informed of any outcome.

Fair wx and always tail winds:cool:

flyingchinaman

23rd Feb 2003, 14:04

Hello all~!

Was wondering whether AirAsia/MAS has higher standard medical requirements then the CAT 1 Malaysian Medical?

Thanx a Mil.

7TIGA7

25th Feb 2003, 00:39

Been to their interview last week. Training to start in April. Happy Flying.

mktong

25th Feb 2003, 05:42

7tiga7
good to you.
please tell us more about the requirement .
are you joining MAS or Air Asia? what kind of license do u have? FAA , JAA or Malaysian? did u convert your license to the malaysian 1? do they accept a Malaysian with FAA tickets?
where should our resume send to? how was the interview.....processes? need your reply urgently......good luck to your training.

flyingchinaman

25th Feb 2003, 06:00

7Tiga7 Good for Ya~!

a few questions from the almost qualified hopefuls:

AirAsia or Mas?
How is the selection process?
when did you apply?
How long did it take?
What are your qualifications?
Did you get your ATPL Malaysian in MFA?
Medical requirements Higher that DCA Malaysian Cat 1?
How long are the training for 737?
How much $ when training?
How much after training?
Do you have a person to contact in HR?

aiya...~! many questi0ons lah....sorry eh?
if not comfortable in posting on the board, you can leave a message on my private message board.

Rhumb Line

25th Feb 2003, 09:31

7Tiga7 congratulations mate. If you could supply me with any of the above as well. Especially the hours and licences held.

Thanks

7TIGA7

26th Feb 2003, 03:53

Latest news: Mate of my is going to start training in March.

QNH1013

27th Feb 2003, 10:02

Air Asia do not require any extra or higher standards than the normal Malaysian Class One medical. You'll need that and a Malayisian CPL IR with Frozen or Unfrozen ATPL. Whaterver international licences you have you'll have to get the appropriate conversions to the Malaysian Licence.

jetsetter

27th Feb 2003, 13:47

By the way....how's the salary/pay/allowances in air asia...how much can a fresh second officer taking home per month.....

thak you ...

Iso

27th Feb 2003, 23:35

Pilost,

Thanks for your informative, enlightening and non-prejudicial post. All operators should be aware that HOT POTATOES should NOT be allowed in the cockpit. They’ve demonstrated that they can compromise vital cultural intolerance attitudes. They CAN only be permitted in box office's, of which there are none here. Refer to your SUCKUP Vol.2-Chp.3-Para.1 (Standard Unanimous Cultural Kitsch Ubiquitous Proclamations manual).

Happy MCP’ing.
:rolleyes:

flyingchinaman

28th Feb 2003, 04:11

Anyone here know where I can purchase/borrow the text books/study materials for the UK ATPL 6 subjects? and also the C3 subjects, the airlaw1&2 ? Called MFA but they came back with "ah...we do not sell our text books until you register for the course...~!" is MFA the only one around that can host the ground schools? why are there no competition around?

QNH1013

28th Feb 2003, 07:09

I think you can go for ATPL courses privately outside MFA. I think an ex instructor runs some courses. Though I'm not sure of the actual contact I could find out. I have some ATPL study books and Malaysian Air Law material. You'll have to be here in KL to borrow it from me though.

As for questions about the training and salary for new Second Officers and First Officers, I'll post back about that soon when I get some figures. The training and salary structure has changed in recent months as the management and training departments grow and makes improvements.

Slasher

28th Feb 2003, 14:46

Iso

They’ve demonstrated that they can compromise vital cultural intolerance attitudes.

Can you translate that into English? Does that mean a cultural intolerance attitude (which surprisingley you consider to be "vital"!) is compromised by expats? How can something (I assume) that isnt acceptable to begin with be "compromised"? Does that mean the cultural intolerance attitude is therefore better than it once was? :confused:

PS and if M.A.S. is goin to have a pilot-shortage this year as stated in the Mas (sic) need pilot very soon thread then why is it p!ssing expats away?

freightdriver

2nd Mar 2003, 13:17

Rhumb Line...hope to see you on the next Air Asia training class...just put in my application last week and I am hoping they will call me next few days for class dates...

7Tiga7....Congrat mate! can you tell me what your qualification they hire you with(ATPL/CPL, hours, type ratings etc)

Just curious to know to see what my chances I have..bisa kirim lewat PM pun OK!

THanx and good luck to all applying to Air Asia...;)

Rhumb Line

2nd Mar 2003, 14:00

Hi there Freight Driver,
Just wondering what type ratings, licences and hours you have. Also does anybody have any idea what sim assesment or interview might consist of.

freightdriver

2nd Mar 2003, 22:06

Hey Rhumb Line...

Of course I am still wishing that they will call me soon, just sent my application via email last week....(It pays to be optimistic sometimes...)

I have just under 2000 total with about 500 on the 737-200. CPL and ATP frozen....

Iso

3rd Mar 2003, 05:56

Slasher,

I wuz sayin, it's vital to be intolerant (as some so pragmatically pursue it), and that's why they wuz kicked out. Translated:-"speaking one's mind is seen as an insult, where it was actually a constructive criticism."

Yes, MAS needs pilots, but do they NEED expats? That is what your question should be - perhaps it should have be more carefully worded! Now that wasn't in the other thread, was it?

Cultural intolerance has improved. Read it anyway you will, but it is obvious. Vital to some, not to others, but IT does appear to be SOP, an organisational pathogen with insidious charactistics.

Hope this clarifies. :p

PILOST

3rd Mar 2003, 07:45

Guys, I was very p.c. when I mentioned the word 'Hot Potato' in describing the said individuals. :D

Without being disrespectful to them, their contracts weren't renewed because of their performance , FULLSTOP.That is what I meant by 'Hot Potato'.

MAS still requires expats to man the 'feeder' fleet (F50 & B734) to stabilize the 'numbers', but I don't see MH going on a big recruitment drive to get expats unless it's for the RHS position as the Skippers post are slightly over established.MH requires a big number of co pilots in the coming few years in their planned expansion programme.Should there be any hiccups, the 'expats' will have a further few years added to their contract.

With the added competition from Air Asia & SQ to get more cadets/pilots from the local population, it is indeed good times for the small aviation community here.

Safe Flying All.
:cool:
PILOST

Blacksheep

3rd Mar 2003, 14:10

Malaysians I love you all. As a "Silver Hair" I'm neither an outsider nor a citizen, but I'm an Expat in any man's language. Aviation is aviation, let's leave the politics to voting day and keep the discussion to Air Asia please. Personally I'm in favour of competition, as long as its fair to ALL true Borneo folk...

On the more controversial "Expat" point challenged by Slasher, he's right on the button. By definition, Expats fill holes in the local fabric; when there's no holes to fill, we're history. Thats just the way it is and we Expats accept the inevitable gracefully. Please don't be xenophobic, we're only trying to help...

**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

flyingcrazy

5th Mar 2003, 10:49

Hi ALL...

Just want to inform you that MAS would might recruit FO. I met some 747 FO (Freighter) a few months ago, and they told me that they will leave MAS, because they got oferred command position in other company. So MAS would need FO's for their replacement. Hope this will help.

cheers;)
FC

flyingchinaman

6th Mar 2003, 03:44

QNH1013,

please check your Private Message.

:)

Up and Away Again

6th Mar 2003, 18:35

Anyone know if they need 737 type rated captains. UK licence?

The Rage

7th Mar 2003, 14:34

NEWS IN ......Air Asia to issue over 100 mil in bonds to triple its fleet, and at the moment they stand at 6, with one more next month. They have the money and planes but no crew. The private students in training school have all been roped in, they would definately require expats. but gentlemen this is where i believe it would be all on local terms, judging by the current markets its worth it. The pay aint too bad if u dont mind living like a local for a while, mind u things arn't cheap in malaysia, especially Kl, anymore. So good luck.

Usman

10th Mar 2003, 17:36

Some pilots from MAS are jumping ship to join Air Asia for a better future prospects and promotions and peace of mind. Plus they don't have to be harassed by the corrupted flight rostering in MAS among many others.

In the end MAS might have the planes but no pilots but if they want to MAS will have to pay much more for contract pilots.

As usual the screwed up National airline, MAS still had not changed very much in spite of being bailed out to the tune of over US2.5 billion of tax-payer's money. Only time will tell by the next election what will happen to this uncertain airline.

Usman

17th Mar 2003, 09:29

Looks like "Big Brother" MAS scared to make any comment here without consulting his bigger boss. Well that is the culture of MAS-the three monkeys: I hear nothing, I say nothing and I see nothing. No wonder they are now a company that is in a decay process.

PILOST

18th Mar 2003, 06:21

Sometimes Usman San, it's better to keep quiet.

This is indeed a rumour website, but your posting makes me wanna ROTFLOL.The truth is the exodus of pilots are the opposite of what you make it to be.Up to the point that there were a 'tacit & discreet' gentleman's agreement on the non pinching of pilots from AK to MH! :}

The pilots from MH who went across to AK were either above 60 years old (of course with 'special' dispensation from DCA Malaysia) or those who were the junior co-pilots (ex AK initially too! :eek: ) with no immediate prospect to be promoted to widebody as co pilots or as captains on the narrowbody due to their lowly junior seniority number.Have to qualify though that they went back to get their 4 bars immediately with AK & good on them too! :ok:

The recent exercise of recruiting co pilots for MH was attended by a substantial amount of AK pilots who are just waiting in the wings to bail to the National Carrier .Hence our silence.............. :D

Indeed, silence is "golden". :p

Safe Flying All!
:cool:
PILOST

Usman

19th Mar 2003, 05:38

Bullocks, go tell that to the marine about to attack Irag.

If it is true that there is a big axodus of pilots from AirAsia to MAS it would already be in the press by now knowing the way the national airline operates for cheap publicity.

Why would AirAsia pilots join at the bottom rung of MAS pilot seniority to operate Twin Otters, Fokkers and B737 for many years to come when they can be flying bigger planes in AirAsia. On top of it being a local airline going places and making bigger profit year by year. Who knows one day it will just buy over the crumbling MAS.

Just see when the prop monies from public fund dries out MAS will
just crumple.

Chill

19th Mar 2003, 09:23

Who said anything about an exodus? It was a recruitment drive.

And what does AK fly that's bigger than a 737? Must be those 74's somebody thought they had .... :suspect:

Some Tan Sri with notions of grandeur will probably come along and buy in before AK does - history repeats itself doesn't it :hmm:

Usman

20th Mar 2003, 01:33

Yes some "Tan Sri" will. Then siphon and squeeze it dry before letting the public pay for it again.

The Rage

20th Mar 2003, 14:16

Usman old chap, how about getting some off your facts straight, MAS is the premier airline in the country, the perks and salary at the end of the day is better. The guys who left had no choice, they were on contract ( no seniority number), they didnt want to leave , but our good old pal the general couldnt make up his mind wheater to keep them and hire them on permanent terms or to do away with them. The decision was left to the last minute, and the AAjob came along, so this guys took it. But given the chance they would be back in no time.

Usman

21st Mar 2003, 04:00

If MAS want to survive in the long term it better follow the advice of the Dep. PM to be lean and efficient just like AirAsia.

All this rot of being premier airline have got to go, that was the old days. The big fat pay and some of the perks have got to be trimmed across the board for MAS if it wants to survive.

flyingchinaman

21st Mar 2003, 12:05

QNH1013,

please check your hotmail/yahoo accounts.
:)

kwaiyai

22nd Mar 2003, 03:45

Usman, Iam interested to know where U get your info from? that is if you dont mind sharing that one:}

Usman

23rd Mar 2003, 09:41

From a network of local pilots and some ground staff in MAS.

kwaiyai

23rd Mar 2003, 10:42

Thanks for that, Just curious as just started training a new batch of MAS Cadets:cool:

rodondo4

23rd Mar 2003, 20:40

usman,

your arguement is also talked about in the 'The True About the Big 6 U.S. Airlines?' fourm....but with respect to the us carriers.

we'll maybe see more bailouts if the attack on iraq lasts longer than expected.

Kwaiwai,

ru working with MFA....I have sent an application to join the MAS cadets.

cheers

PILOST

24th Mar 2003, 00:16

From a network of local pilots and some ground staff in MAS

Well that's says it all doesn't it!:rolleyes:

Usman my dear friend, let's not bicker about such trivial matters.After all the stats proved that AK have their own niche market & MH has theirs.

What we should realise is that AK managed to get Silk Air's parent company SQ, worried, so much so that they will launch a low cost carrier to compete!Now that's one up for us as a nation!

Malaysia Boleh!;)

Safe Flying All!

PILOST

lesenterbang

24th Mar 2003, 01:35

Usman,

Are you related to George Bush Jr., Tony Blair or John Howard?

You are just hell-bent on MAS as much as Bush on Iraq. Don't care whether your fact is right or just full of bull****.

Chill

24th Mar 2003, 02:11

lesenterbang - could you be any less p.c.? Let's not get personal or you'll wake up Squidy. ;)

PILOST - Yeah, but SIA are masters (or suckers?) for playing one-upmanship across the Straits. They'll be crowing Mahjullah Singapura before you know it :p

__________
Chill Out!

Usman

24th Mar 2003, 14:59

Not quite lesenterbang 'wasakh'.

I'm a long lost cousin of Saddam in exile in Malaysia.

Midnight Mike

25th Mar 2003, 00:12

Where does Air Asis conduct its crew training?
Where do they do the ground school/simulator training
Do they have their own instructors or does another airline/company conduct the training for them?
If they train there own crews, are they looking for instructors?

Thanks

PILOST

25th Mar 2003, 07:37

MM, AK trains their pilots in house.Thay have their own instructor pilots.

However their sims & FMS training are done in MH premises.

Safe Flying All.

:cool:
PILOST

kwaiyai

25th Mar 2003, 10:30

Rodondo4,
Check ypur PM good luck :cool:

Usman

25th Mar 2003, 15:28

AK do their sim in a simulator building belonging to Boeing.

MAS had since lost most of its assets, sold off to pay its debts.

In fact it is a company with virtually nothing, no planes no engineering buildings no catering, no nothing, only pilots cabin crew and supporting staff.

The Rage

28th Mar 2003, 22:46

See old boy u have it wrong again, we were going to sell the sims to boeing, but it didn't go tru, it still belongs to MAS. your freinds in MAS are either retired or misinformed.

Usman

29th Mar 2003, 09:31

Rage: Go tell the marines in Irag about that.

LooseConnection

29th Mar 2003, 23:30

Usman and Co.

Interesting reading on this thread, Many years ago I used to work for an "outfit" on a Southern Hemisphere Island that an "ars.h...e" asset stripped as you are suggesting has happened to MAS leaving it with nothing but a name and slaves.

It went down the gurgler about 18mths ago leaving 16000 out of work plus all the contractors in the sh.....t!

Is this where MAS is headed or is the Govt. going to pick up the bill?
:= :=

Usman

30th Mar 2003, 11:56

At the moment the government is picking up all the tabs at taxpayers and public funds expense.

They (the govt.) don't want to rock the boat yet till election time this year or next.

MAS have to pull out from its steep dive and shows its viability. Otherwise after the government win for the next 5 years, the airline will be trimmed down. That mean heads will roll and MAS will land in the gutter.

So MAS can only hope there is no wide scale ressesion, viral attacks worldwide or distruptions due to terrorist attacks as an aftermath of the Iraq war.

Usman

3rd Apr 2003, 17:05

MAS : Say nothing (don't talk politics), See Nothing (even though the big boss is ripping the airline) and Hear Nothing as long as I'm getting paid from the Tax-payers and Public Trust Funds.

I wonder the pilots there had any concience.

The Rage

3rd Apr 2003, 22:56

usman old boy, why in the devil are u still refering to the old management (019). That idiot is long gone, the new management has done alot of good things.......like turning the company around, with my tax money. And i still have a job , unlike the old management who wanted to retrench workers. Why so negative about the OLD MAN, dont u think he has done a lot of good for the country, if Anwar was the PM, we probably still be in debt to IMF, dictating to their terms probably have no say in this war and most probably out of a job, cause MAS would have been one of those first co's to be trimmed. So why dont you keep your narrow minded, retired and out of date comments to yourself.

CubaLibre

4th Apr 2003, 18:51

As an Ex-MAS antipodean Expat.

I must say USMAN seems to be leaning very heavily to one side.

Me thinks its that Chip on his shoulder.

Usman

6th Apr 2003, 14:36

I wanna I wanna get my pay every month, I don't care if it's from the taxpayers. What a pathetic remark coming from a MAS employee.

These monies could have been better utilised to fund the squatters than to put them into your pockets.

I pay tax too and so are 10 over millions others. You think we like our monies to be squandered in a criminal manner after the OldMan's henchmen had siphoned the airline dry to cover for their loses in the 1997 economic downturn.

Come to think of it rather than bail out MAS to the tune RM10 billions it would be better just to put that money in fixed deposit and at 5% earn RM500mil a year, rather than just gaining a miserable RM5mil by MAS last year.

No Royal Commission was carried out for obvious reason, to protect the butts of the financial 'invaders'. To top it all they got away with RM1.6billion when the oldman government body bought their shares at RM8 when the market value then was just RM3 . Least we all forget it was all in the press.

I'll tell you of an analogy if you like to hear. There is an old man with 13 daughters. He had provided (education, provisions, developments, etc) for them for 20 years . Then one day he took the law into his own hands and secretly raped them one by one in the middle of the night. The trouble is this episode had been leaked to the public by a few of his daughters. So you tell me is he a good old man, after all he had done for his daughters.

-------------

Nerds with no backbone don't deserve to survive in this new challenging world.

PILOST

8th Apr 2003, 11:17

As the title suggest, we are all taxpayers too, where our income is taxed at source.

Did we bitch when the gov't rescued Renong, Perwaja, Proton etc. etc when the 97 meltdown occured?No!

We just grinned & bare it, coz we know that there are families out there who will go starving!We don't have a dole system & we are definitely not a welfare state (where even the western countries are reviewing it).We in MH expect the same standards be applied to us by the Gov't too!Failing which they will fail their duties to the voters, rightly or wrongly.

Again Usman, the topic refers to Air Asia , so let's stick to that shall we?

Usman my ill informed friend, let me quote you :

At the moment the government is picking up all the tabs at taxpayers and public funds expense

.AK do their sim in a simulator building belonging to Boeing.MAS had since lost most of its assets, sold off to pay its debts.

In fact it is a company with virtually nothing, no planes no engineering buildings no catering, no nothing, only pilots cabin crew and supporting staff.

Which is which Usman?So you had effectively contradicted yourself by this statement.If you had been reading the english dailies lately, you will notice that MH is owned by & large effectively by the Gov't.That means the sim, a/c, catering & the what not's associated with MH.

Recently in the Star newspaper, you will notice that they had interviewed The CEO of AK, Mr Freddie Fernandez who says that MAS yes MAS Catering has the best spread of food among the Airlines that he flew. :D He was also quoted as saying that MH & AK have different markets & are targetting different segments of the Malaysian public.He also takes pleasure that SQ is worried about the strength of AK in it's future foray in the Asean market when AFTA kicks in.... :p Good on you Freddie! :ok:

At the end of the day Usman, MH was formed by the Gov't, owned by the Gov't & when it was corporatised, the Gov't had a 'RM1 golden share' which made it less appealing for the foreign capital to buy into MH's shares.Rightfully when the experiment with the idiot 'Mr 019' :mad: failed, the Gov't stepped in to save MH.Granted I felt that paying the idiot the same price he bought from the gov't was questionable, the intention to save the national airline was not.Lets not forget that MH is a political tool to unite the nation & making Malaysia accessible to the outside world.Hence national stake was at interest.

Again Usman, your forays into this forum makes you look like a village idiot.Or maybe just like the old malay saying "Seperti anjing menyalak bukit" :} .If you don't understand that then you are just a foreigner trying to irritate us Malaysians......

Safe Flying All!

:cool:

PILOST.

rodondo4

8th Apr 2003, 18:06

Well said Pilost....

another thing to add....MAS is not just there to make money, it is also one of the biggest employers in the country, without it 20,000+ jobs will be lost over night imagime what will happen to the country!!! Yes 019 was questionable but losing MAS would have been unthinkable.

Usman

10th Apr 2003, 06:32

Well gentlemen as you can see this is the way Malay muslim do business. Its national pride first, money lost do not matter. To death we defend our national pride. Sounds familiar. See what happened to Saddam. In a real economic war the Malays will look like they'll be wiped out. And no wonder the local Malays until today after 45 years of independance could only hold less than 15% of the economy depending on the Chinese and their tax money to build up the country.

On paper MAS had been renamed NewCo but the locals still address it as MAS, even the subsidaries that does not belong to the national airline anymore.

The loss in Renong and Perwaja follows a similar pattern to MAS.
The monies were just been gutted out by some individuals.

Its the Saddam syndrome, lets fight to the death even though we know we can never win.

The Rage

10th Apr 2003, 14:30

I suppose the rescue of the American carriers are coming from Iraq?..... maybe thats why they started the war. Any country would have done the same, even SQ at the end of the day, what about swissair?... pride does play a part, but its the jobs, the people u have to feed, the economy that has to run and at the end of the day the votes that u would get by saving these jobs.

PILOST

10th Apr 2003, 16:09

Usman, I find it distasteful & racist of you to make a comment on this forum on race, religion, local & international politics.

Again Usman, you have been proven as a 'Global Village Idiot' by your contradictory statements.Making statements that blame a democratically elected government & it's policies are hurting your image.... :}

Usman, let me remind you the topic here is Air Asia .I would like to remind Usman that most flag carriers who are or was in financial trouble will always be rescued by the government.Look at Air France, Swiss & recently the airlines in America.So a bailout isn't race,creed or religion biased.It is an inherent human trait & it will happen again.

Malaysia Airlines was formed by the government of Malaysia just like Singapore Airlines.However MH has a 'moral' & legal obligation since it's inception is to provide the nation a tool for the nation's integration policies & transportation needs even if it means making a loss as the benefits outweights the loss.

On the economic front, I guess our government did the right thing by refusing IMF recommendation & avoided an 'Indonesia' like implosion.So we did win the economic battle :p .

At the end of the day Usman, how you disect, dice or researched the ownership of MAS, the bottomline will be the Government of Malaysia.Newco is a hyphothethical name given by our MD during his restructuring recommendations.Again Usman, you are twisting the truth & spreading lies.There is no Newco.......there's only Malaysia Airlines & the Government arm (under the MoF) that is the majority owner of Malaysia Airlines...........

Game's over Usman.you may now crawl back under your coconut shell.

Safe Flying All

:cool:
PILOST

Åji Knøw Møe Tøe

11th Apr 2003, 03:25

Hello there.
Since we're on the subject of Air Asia, can any one tell me how's
Peter Tålålå doing?
Cheers!:D

Usman

11th Apr 2003, 23:34

At the end of the day if MAS still prove to be a rotten apple causing great burden to Malaysia resources (where at this time it is already being streached thin) then it would be prudent to let it be taken over by other more innovative company like Air Asia for the survival of some of its (MAS) staff and equiptments.

Åji Knøw Møe Tøe

12th Apr 2003, 14:02

Topic is Air Asia.
Please, enough of the other airline.
Anyway, the mørøn that sits on the Chair at ÅÅ
happens to be connected to a bigger Mørøn who happens
to be the Master Architect of all the ILLS in the ...:sad:

QNH1013

13th Apr 2003, 01:37

Åji Knøw Møe Tøe,
Can you please be a bit more specific in what you are trying to say. Do you have a fact or point to make? And which chair in Air Asia are you talking about?

sirsushi

13th Apr 2003, 01:58

Look gentlemen, let's not get emotional here.

Pilost has a point, but then again, so does Usman.

But really, Usman, can you for one moment just stay calm and think logically, what'll happen if MAS falls? What will happen to the people on MAS payroll? People like yourself with families to support...

Think about it

Åji Knøw Møe Tøe

13th Apr 2003, 02:02

Certainly QNH.
The MAN who sits on the CHAIR.

Tata.:)

Colosseo

13th Apr 2003, 02:43

" Well gentle men as you can see this is the way.......do business"
My sincere condolences goes out to the Man who transmitted
this post.
" To death we defend our national pride "
My goodness, it's one heluva mighty noble attitude.
GOOD LUCK MAN.:ok:

Usman

13th Apr 2003, 11:20

PILOST: "that most flag carriers who are or was in financial trouble will always be rescued by the government.Look at Air France, Swiss & recently the airlines in America."

These foreign airlines were rescued on a bonafied case. In MAS it is an ethical and moral issue, the guilt the govt. felt after doing what they did to japerdise the livelihood of 25000 people and the looming election. The least the govt. could do was not to pay them the RM1.6 billion at more than twice the share value after all the damages they had inflicted to MAS and use that monies instead to help the airline recover.

PILOST: "MH has a 'moral' & legal obligation since it's inception is to provide the nation a tool for the nation's integration policies & transportation needs even if it means making a loss as the benefits outweighs the loss."

Not entirely. In the 70's there was no loss as the local profitable routes always covers the less profitable. This was an agreement with Sabah and Sarawak to service their hinterlands. But for the last 15 years the profit turns to loss for the domestic routes for some obvious reasons.

And along come Air Asia to prove them otherwise even at less than half the fare.

The loss at the international level is an entirely another matter.

Usman

13th Apr 2003, 12:27

PILOST: "Usman my ill informed friend, let me quote you :

Quote1:

At the moment the government is picking up all the tabs at taxpayers and public funds expense

Quote2:

AK do their sim in a simulator building belonging to Boeing. MAS had since lost most of its assets, sold off to pay its debts.
In fact it is a company with virtually nothing, no planes no engineering buildings no catering, no nothing, only pilots cabin crew and supporting staff.

Which is which Usman?So you had effectively contradicted yourself by this statement."

On Quote1: This is for the RM12 billion owed by MAS. Well somebody had to pay for the fuel, eggs, spare parts etc etc used by MAS before the govt took over all the loss accounts.

On Qoute2: MAS was given a clean slate with no debts to start over a new life as an empty shell.

So what is the contradiction here. It looks like you are the one who is cloudy over the issues.

Pilost I guess you are flying too much (to get the RM12,000 overtime pay) to know what was going on then. So your lack of information to the real facts is glaring here and confusing the readers or was that your intention. I guess you must had joined Malaysian Airline in the 80's to not being aware of its history in the 60's and 70's when it was called Malayan Airways and Malaysia Singapore Airline (MSA).

Usman

16th Apr 2003, 19:12

As usual PILOST and cronies will disappear from this thread when they had bull..s-itted enough.

FougaMagister

17th Apr 2003, 06:30

Hey guys - let's stop the slanging match! I'm sure there is a proper forum for that. The topic (way back) was Air Asia.

I'd appreciate some explanation from you guys; a couple of months ago there was a mention on the Air Asia website that expats were welcome to apply (for the FO positions), which I did (again) with all the relevant data. To my surprise, and even after some extra prompting on my part, still no answer.

Do you reckon they did this to get many expat applications which they could then use to show the authorities that they can use some foreign FOs when there aren't enough locals? Or was it just a mistake? Indeed, this reference to expats being welcome has now been removed from the website... Odd!

Keep the blue side up!

QNH1013

17th Apr 2003, 14:33

Hi, what I know is that the plan is to not take in Expats as far as possible till the end of the year. Things may change due to recruitment demands and so this policy may change. As with most countries, nationals are a priority. This is also due to work permit issues which Air Asia can't deal with for expats. If I hear any updated info, I'll post it here. I do agree that it is polite that everyone should at least get an e-mail reply eventually from an airline. I do not know why you have not heard anything.

FougaMagister

17th Apr 2003, 15:43

Hi QNH 1013 - thanx for that. T'was my mistake, I forgot to mention that Air Asia HR did send me a polite (albeit short) e-mail acknowledging receipt of my application and mentioning they would transmit it to the respective dept. - flt. ops and Captain Chin I suppose. But that was on 14th Feb...

Too bad for the expat situation - it's not every day that we find an airline which is actively advertising for pilot applicants and increasing their fleet by 100% this year and 50% next...

I would have thought they would be interested by someone who, while not type-rated, has spent 20 hrs. on a 737-400 sim as part of Multi-Crew Cooperation/Line-Oriented Flight Training.

Tough!

Keep the blue side up.

PILOST

17th Apr 2003, 16:58

Unlike you Usman, we do have a life rather than just sitting in front of the computer.Let's dissect your arguments shall we? ;)

These foreign airlines were rescued on a bonafied case. In MAS it is an ethical and moral issue, the guilt the govt. felt after doing what they did to japerdise the livelihood of 25000 people and the looming election. The least the govt. could do was not to pay them the RM1.6 billion at more than twice the share value after all the damages they had inflicted to MAS and use that monies instead to help the airline recover

Bonafide case Usman? So it's okay if the shareholders of the airline (which some happens to be majority owned by their state governments) to bail out their enterprises, with some of them time & time again, but not Malaysia with Malaysia Airlines?What a sham!Double standards! .:*

However,I do agree with you on why they had to pay that idiot (Mr 019) a whopping Rm1.6 Billion when the money could have been used to shaft his posterior to kingdom come! :mad:

PILOST: "MH has a 'moral' & legal obligation since it's inception is to provide the nation a tool for the nation's integration policies & transportation needs even if it means making a loss as the benefits outweighs the loss

Not entirely. In the 70's there was no loss as the local profitable routes always covers the less profitable. This was an agreement with Sabah and Sarawak to service their hinterlands. But for the last 15 years the profit turns to loss for the domestic routes for some obvious reasons.

And along come Air Asia to prove them otherwise even at less than half the fare.

The loss at the international level is an entirely another matter.

Usman my young & naive proverbial 'frog under the coconut shell', any MAS employee worth their salt will know the 5 corporate charter of MAS when it was formed.Let me list you the 2 most important ones:

1:To provide the nation with a mode of transportation at minimal cost to the public, which shall promote the integration of the nation especially between East & West Malaysia, & to the world.

2.To provide Malaysians with jobs.

You will now appreciate that effectively, even when MAS was corporatised, the Govt had a RM1 'Golden Share' which was to safeguard the policies set by the Govt when MAS was formed from the breakup of MSA (yes I do remember those days :O )

As for the argument of cost, let's not kid ourself here Usman, Air Asia is a low cost carrier .AK works on a different cost set up.MH is a full blown airline, complete with meals on wheels (part of the ticket price), golden lounges etc. etc. & the perks that the public expect from it.AK's ticket prices are advertised from a low of Rmxxx but the public now fully understands that marketing strategies permit AK to charge a full fare (which sometimes cost as much as MH!) :eek: Again Usman, you're pulling wool under our eyes here!At the end of the day AK's market strategies are based on the Low Cost Operators similiar to Easyjet,Virgin Blue & Southwest.Comparing AK & MH on cost will be like comparing apples & oranges.

Oh yeah, for those of you who are still on the topic.Please refer to my earlier postings.AK is well & truly a force to be reckoned with in the region.It certainly riled some feathers in SQ's top management :ok: For those of you who harbour a thought to be with AK, perseverance is the key.At the moment MH & AK are desperately trying to fill their pilot requirements.Both companies are currently tied to an obligation to hire locals first (rightfully).However when push come to shove, I do believe both airlines will employ expats.When? I wouldn't know.However candidates should be aware that AK might not be able to offer a decent 'market salary' as this will effect their cost.As the saying goes "Caveat Emptor!"

Safe Flying All!

:cool:

PILOST.