Barriers to Aviation Careers

[Skyway]

Hi Folks,

Just a short post to find out what barriers some of you have had to overcome or are still overcoming in your pursuit of an aviation career. Does not have to nescessarly be airline orientated, it could be personal, financial or anything you have had to put up with. I am currently writing a book on the industry and am very keen to here of a few real life, modern aviation facts.

Thanking you in advance.

[Luca_brasi]

Money :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

As a 19yo who also goes to uni, finances is always the problem for me. Got my PPL about 3 months ago and doing my CPL and IREX theory now but no cash for any more serious flying till about Jan.

However i do have a great job that pays really well and one where i can study at work as well though i am generally working about 28 - 35 hours a week.

Something i thought was a great idea at the time was to get my uni degree at the same time as doing my flying. I now realise that it is quite hard to do uni study, flying and flying theory as well as work and try and have some sort of social life. I am considering deferring next year (my final year at uni) but that only adds a year on and it simply means that it would be very hard to get a flying job while at uni so i may just get it over and done with.

However i am determined to do it. I love the flying and i have great instructors who are happy to help me in whatever areas i may need.

Money is still a problem though i strongly recommend having a budget and making sure you stick to it. Thru that i will have my CPL theory and IREX done in about 3 months, having another decent long trip, a holiday with my girlfriend, my MECIR by end of July and my CPL by this time next year. That budget took me about 3 weeks to work out but once this time next year comes around it will all be worth.

Another piece of advice was to be wary of using accounts and the like at flying schools. Initially i thought they were great if i was a few dollars short coz i went around instead of landing or something similar but all those few dollars add up. Currently im paying off quite a large account that just kept accumulating and from now on all my payments will be made in cash, because at least then i know that i can afford it and i wont be heading into debt. For some people it works, for others it can lead to trouble. Its just like a credit card and i also dont have one of those.

[goldeneagle]

Apart from the loan repayments on an instructor's "wage" from 2 to 28 hours per fortnight *smile*? Just the power hungry individuals who permeate flying schools; the personality type that belongs in a private boys school, and instructs just to have an opportunity to yell at and otherwise assert a dubious authority over a student. Don't get me wrong, it's all worth putting up with just to go for a fly

[Structural Failure]

In my opinion the biggest barrier to a career in aviation are relationships. They play with the mind and before you know it you are turning down flying to spend time with them. My ex-girlfriend was the worst thing that ever happened to my career.

Cheers

[RAM750]

I fully agree with ya structural failure, my flying training has been on the back burnner ever since I found myslef a gf!! Dont really know what to do about it. It almost seems like its a choice between someone u love and a flying career. But thats just aviation for ya :) Just hope its all worth it in the end.

[Dogimed]

Finances... definatly... go bankrupt after ever Nav exercise.

Girlfriend.. I must have the best, not only does she occasionally help me out financially.. she pushes me to study, enjoys going flying with me, and knows that I may or may not get the returns (employment wise) in the future for our invested money now.

[PILOTGAL]

Originally posted by Structural Failure:
In my opinion the biggest barrier to a career in aviation are relationships.

IMHO, I think you're picking the wrong types of girls, my friend.

My fiance is GoldenEagle, I met him the day I took my very first flying lesson. He's now an instructor (I'm STILL a student) and our combined love of flying is instrumental to our relationship. He proposed to me whilst I was flying a TravelAir r/hand seat at 4,000ft AGL 3/4 the way across Bass Strait, enroute to YMLT.

He's going to end up flying with the big boys one day, and I'll be there right next to him, wherever in the world that is, even if it means I have to give up my career.

If you're reading this babe, I love you *always*

[tyga78]

Pilotgal, thats beautiful. Theres so much love in the room, mine was airsickness, took a couple of years but I'm styling now;)

[Pseudonymn]

Structural Failure,

You are definately picking the wrong girls.
My Fiance is currently flying in the Territory while I am still in Sydney, and I fully support his move. I see it as an investment in our joint future, because if he is not happy and always wondering if he could have made it as a pilot, then that will surely affect the rest of our relationship.
Try picking a girl who is mature in more than just her physical appearance. It sometimes helps ;)

[Edited because I forgot my spelling lessons]

[*Lancer*]

PILOTGAL, that was definately worth becoming a member for, and the best first post I have ever read! :) :)

It would truly have been an unforgetable, and uncomfortable flight if you said no :D

Biggest barrier for me was eyesight getting into the RAAF. Of course, its all rumored to change now! Interesting how some things end up working out though...

Lancer

[RYAN TCAD]

Well, must say - finances were a huge hurdle. Took me nearly 5 years to get my CPL / CMIR / ATPL subjects and many odd jobs to save for that next lesson.

Because there were quite a few weeks in between each lesson,
becoming rusty was easy, and therefore very time consuming. :confused:

Getting jerked around by instructors all vying for hours into their newly acquired logbooks initially. :mad:

Realising that a fair majority of pilots that i've encountered along the way are egotistical D'heads that think their 'God's Gift'. - (It really is quite embarressing being around them at times) :o

Having to make the difficult choice (but the right one in hindsight) to end a relationship after 18 months because she was applying the pressure for marriage. If i ended up married, that meant i could not pursue my intended career (which afterall was my plan from 5yrs of age!) :(

Travelling around all over the countryside being misled by dubious operators in search of work and taking advantage of you and the current climate of GA. ie- too many pilots / not enough jobs etc etc. :eek:

Further realising that, because there are not so many jobs out there, alot of pilots (NOT ALL mind you, i have met a few great one's) are very shallow, selfish and self centred individuals, whom are very friendly to your face. (Beware of those one's kiddies!!!) :mad:

I'm sure i'll think of a few more, but it's late and i do have to FLY! :D

And that's the key - FLY - it's pretty much worth it all in the end. As long as you stick at it, don't be pulled down by the heap of negatives that one encounters along the way, learn from it all, and try to put back into it, the 'good' that hopefully you do have left in you after experiencing it all. (It is easy to become very cynical in this industry.) :rolleyes:

Important Note: - If you can 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you', then really - you can't go wrong in aviation, - and LIFE! :)

KARMA EXISTS !!! and hindsight IS a wonderfull thing! :p

Oh and BTW, 'PILOTGAL' - how old are you? - roughly?

[PILOTGAL]

RYAN TCAD, I'm in my 30's - roughly!:D

[Towering Q]

RYAN...not wrong about the 'egotisticle d*ckhead' bit. What is it about this industry that attracts so many? Funny how you can usually pick them from their radio manner.

Having said that, aviation also produces some of the most interesting, intelligent and motivated people around.

[Structural Failure]

Pseudonym,

Thats great of you to support your Fiance's move, but what would happen if he lost sight of the big picture and didn't want to go because he would miss you too much? It happens

You wrote:
" Try picking a girl who is mature in more than just her physical appearance. It sometimes helps "

Yeah, very true. I watched the movie "She's All That" yesterday. Does anyone know where I can get my own little Laney?

[RYAN TCAD]

Pilotgal - that's great. To know that ur kind are out there.

Towering Q - yep, right on the mark about hearing them on the radio. Its even more embarressing hearing them right in front of you in public - at the bar!

Structural failure - Yes those 'little Laney's do exist, i have one of them now, and have full support from both her and her folks 110%.

:) :) :)

[Aussiebert]

biggest hurdle: money!

Theres something about being 20 with 50 grand of debt that seems tricky

actually Ryan Tcad's remarks echo my sentiments (the early stuff, not the later stuyff, i'm not up to that yet!)

I disagree that the aviaition world is full of self centred individuals, its the same everywhere, just a bit less noticable. The vast majority of people i've flown with, both other students and instuctors, i wish nothing but the best for.

It's easy to get jaded and to be brought down by others who are jaded, but theres plenty of people out there whose support and enthusiasm makes up for any negativity.

I only discovered pprune a few months ago, but have been very inspired by many people here, particularly one person who shall remain nameless, but sent me a message that reaffirmed my beleif most people are decent supportive people.

anyhow, thats enough out of me for now

[CoodaShooda]

Couple of basics not yet mentioned (I think)

attitude and commitment

[Pseudonymn]

Originally posted by Structural Failure

Thats great of you to support your Fiance's move, but what would happen if he lost sight of the big picture and didn't want to go because he would miss you too much? It happens

Then we consider the options together (and this has happened). I am not saying it is easy. It is Bl00dy hard! But, if you work hard at both the relationship and the flying then it can work.
I was already with my Fiance when he decided to pursue his aviation dream from scratch, so it was a mutual decision for him to continue after he gained his PPL. I am not a pilot, but I have my own interests, some of which he shares, others he just lets me go my merry way. :)

[RYAN TCAD]

True Aussiebert - the great guy's do exist in aviation. I understand your at the early stage at the moment, but i must point out, that you will start to run into those self centred, egotistical D'heads once you start looking for work in GA. It unfortunately seems to go with the territory.

When one thinks about it, it really can be put down to the state of the industry where there are too many pilots / not enough jobs etc.

This breeds competition. Who's the strongest / who will survive / who is the weekest etc. It starts to get very aggressive out there in GA. The one's who appear to dominate, (ie - the loud, egotistical macho one's) are the one's to look out for. BEWARE!!!

Anyway, sounds like you're on your way - and good luck.

:)

[Aussiebert]

thanks ryan!

I'm sure the job hunting experience will open my eyes a fair bit, but i look foward to it. I'm working my ass off at the moment to save up enough maney to go at it with gusto

[U2]

1. Yeh, there are a few ego charged pilots and operators in G.A. I think the years of financial hardship and frustration changes alot of pilots. I think that hardship brings out the worst in some people. While some individuals see hardship as being stuck in the mud, I try to see it as part of the learning curve. Having good stress releases and having a good philosophy to your work and life can go along way in G.A.

2. Nobody has mentioned "isolation"

Many flying jobs are in the bush. Flying itself can be rather lonely, then add isolation in the bush and it becomes even harder. If your a nurse in a bush clinic then atleast you have some people around you. If your a ringer on a outstation, well you have station people to be around. However, when your a pilot out bush, well....you fly.....do alot of paperwork and organising the future bookings and are often out at the airport away from town.

My thoughts..

U2

[Towering Q]

U2...have to agree with you on the isolation.

How many have been in the situation where you drop the pax off at a strip out in the middle of no-where, they get picked up in a 'cruiser and disappear to do their business and say they will be back soon?

Several hours pass and the temperature soars. No shade around so you remove a seat from a/c and sit under the wing. Finish reading the newspaper the pax bought along and start on the magazines in the seat pockets. Dam, I've already read this Bulletin.:(

The GA pilot must learn how to cope with sitting around anywhere, doing nothing, for many hours...and sometimes days. :eek:

I for one, have become very good at it.:D

[beer bong]

B!tches
Barrels
Beer

[Raingauge]

There is no way I'd be where I am today without my wonderful wife. As far a barriers go, I'd have to say CP's that have failed to get into the airlines, or whatever they were aiming for can be a bit of a pain in the butt. I know of one that seemed like he wanted to pass on his aviation failure to the guys he hired....this can be pretty off putting to a green 200hr pilot.

[quixote]

RAM750
Sounds like you might have the wrong woman if you're a self-starter looking for adventure and she's not. Better to find out now rather than later when it will be very expensive emotionally and financially if she's the wrong one. Compatible character of the right stuff is what it's all about when the going gets tough as it does with all of us at some time. The right woman will support, encourage, and improve you and you'll both enjoy many years together living and working around the world as my wife and I have - and we've still managed to have 5 children while doing it
and I'm still flying!
Cheers,
Don

[geisha girl]

Egotistical ******s abound in aviation, don't tell me it's exactly the same as other professions. I have done other things besides flying so I know. If there were jobs for a high percentage of pilots maybe things would be different, less competitive maybe. It aint going to change in the near future.

[Sheep Guts]

Barriers in aviation, yes there are many. Money wasnt so bad for me, I was a Tradesman for 9 years before flying for a living.

As for picking the wallys from the wonders its a bit hard to judge them on their boistressness(spelling). But I have met the occasional "Egotistical #####" as Geish Girl says, and more of them do seem to pop up in aviation, but I think the correct term for these individuals is "An*l Retentive Chuck Yeager wannabes"hehehe :D :D

Anyway back to the subject at hand.
1. If your adverse to travel, this may also be a barrier to your own Career progression.

2. Money obviuosly, you keep spending it, more ratings, renewalls etc.

3. Relationships, generally spuradic, unless you meet the right person.

4.A general willingness or lack there of ,to get down and do some bloody hard work, some employees look for this before you get a job.

5.General tenacity to stick at it, not give up and go back to Mum amd Dad helps as well.:( ( I have seen many Prospective Charter Pilots get to Darwin, no ones hiring so they go home after a couple of days. Dont do it guys stay close, get a job , and movement will eventually occurr).

6. Above all youve gotta have fun at this game, otherwise your p##sing into the wind so to speak. So if your not happy this can be a barrier aswell.

Aviation is a way life, life is the experience..........enjoy..;)

Regards
Sheep

[DeltaT]

>barriers some of you have had to overcome or are still overcoming in your pursuit of an aviation career.

I have been thinking on writing a book myself it so happens
In a forum like this where do I start, and any one of the barriers is a chapter in itself in my life experience so far in my pursuit.
Or what I could also deem ‘struggles’ to get to somewhere I now feel I never will
The aviation industry is like no other, and seems to be outside the realms of normal Employment ethics and law

It has got to the point for me, where I am considering a life away from flying now. I am hoping for a happier life and a career where -I- am appreciated.
I openly admit that aviation has now made me bitter towards it.
Well I could go on for a fair bit, so will bring that to a stop.

Generic Barriers:

-Experience: you never have enough experience for what they want

-Money: It costs! I am soon to go bankrupt in UK, a tough lesson.

-Relationships: I have given up 3 women now in the course of my aviation pursuit that I would not have otherwise if it weren’t for flying (in the individual case of course!)
I am sick of this and other sacrifices

-Sept 11: Not so much this end of the globe downunder, but in Europe its totally changed the market

-Employers: See experience. You will always find that they have employed someone in the past or later in the future below the minimum criteria, but for you it is set in rock.

-Supply and Demand: If the goddam schools would stop saying there is/or will be a pilot shortage, there wouldn’t be so many pilots perhaps, and the pay and employment conditions for us all would improve. Also, see if you can find a school that is open and honest to its students as to how hard it is to find a pilot job?!

-Licences: If you are an experienced airline pilot and get recruited/contracted to work overseas, your licence is rubber stamped and accepted, otherwise you have to totally requalify. Protectionism (?) of their industry it may be.
One day it will all be harmonised I think, the big 2 are already evident FAA and JAA

In a nutshell, I have trained in NZ, instructed where I did 6 weeks with no pay initially and with 10hrs a month it drove me to go to the UK. Took out a loan, requalified, while holding down a job at the same time for parts of it. I had a flying company go bust on me owing me £5500 in wages. Instructing in UK for while things were ok, then Sept 11 having killed the market there, instructing not paying enough through the winter and my secondary job of IT with no prospects, and therefore unable to pay back my loan, I am now back in NZ.
In the past month I have driven some 4000km by car, knocking on every aviation company door I can find here, even the ones I knew I would not be at their normal intake level.
And yes I have tried the Auz and NZ military, prior to leaving NZ. That in itself involved getting myself medically cleared of childhood asthma in order to proceed with the application.

There were opportunities for me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
This isn’t a moan or a winge.
But the original post asked for barriers.
Some I went over, some I smashed through, others I went around, and some slowed me down.
But there is only so much a person can take.
Think of it as an obstacle course. When you are on one that never ends, you kinda wanna stop when you run out of breath.
It all depends on what course you end up on.

[Sheep Guts]

Delta you sound very sombre Mate, my condolences. I would say that if you still have it in you, head to Northern Australia and have a look if you havent been. All that shivering in the dark in the UK seems to have affected you , it would, to me aswell.

You must know now that under the Trans Tasman Agreement your NZ licence is useable, you may have to get another job and hang for awhile. Remember to get a Dangerous Goods Certificate and get a set of Aussie Docs.

Just trying to offer some positive advice;)

[Empty field myopia]

AIRLINES!!!


Terrorist a distant second ;)