One World Alliance - Myth?

[DX Wombat]

I have been prompted to post this by a comment made elsewhere by Bealine that BA and EI have a strong alliance. I have not flown with EI but do fly to Australia two or thre times a year using both BA and QF flights. I have QF Frequent Flyer membership. There appears to be a distinct lack of communication between both BA and QF. On at least two occasions pre-allocated seats have been changed by BA and QF have not been allowed to reverse the change by BA, this has meant that I have had to try to change them back again once I reached Singapore - not always successfully.
I have also not had my upgraded ticket (I had used some FF points for it) recognised by a member of BA check in staff who tried to send me back to the Economy check-in and only agreed that I might be right when I asked if a certain BA CS manager was in that day and she looked more carefully at the seat allocation. I had even offered to show her my booking on the QF website.
This current trip has also produced yet another discrepancy. I have recently acquired Silver membership and one of the benefits is that I can have 10 kgs extra cargo baggage. I arrived at check-in and put my jacket into my big bag bringing my total to 30.4kgs.(split into more than one bag) Not bad, I thought but I was frowned upon by the check-in person. "I'll let you have that this time" I was told. What?!! It's only 400 grammes over the limit! "You are only allowed 20kgs" I explained that I was allowed 30 kgs and again offered to show the person the limits on the website. This was all discussed in a pleasant, civilised manner. It transpired that BA still only allow their Ruby members 20 kgs and that the check-in staff are not informed of the other partners' limits.
I am aware that there are peple who are only too willing to try and get more that they are allowed but I am not one of them. I didn't have my Silver FF paperwork with me but will make sure that I carry it in future.
Don't misunderstand me, I like BA and QF and will continue to fly with them, but the "One World" part seems to me to mean one world for each individual airline and rarely shall useful information be shared amonst the partners.
How do other alliances compare? I would be very interested to know.

[rsoman]

Spme of your problems should be getting over soon, atleast on the reservations side. Both BA and Qantas have now moved over to the same vendor, Amadeus and while BA is more or less fully integrated , for Qantas, process is still going on and should be complete soon. This means that things like Frequent Flyer Data, Adsvacen Seat Reservations etc will be integrated from the same database.
Infact this is one of the major problems with alliances. In the initial days of KLM/Northwest alliances the integration (KLM and NW use two different reservation systems) was far from perfect and there used to be frequent cases when bookings for one airline used to get cancelled by "messages" generated from the other airline system with passengers getting stranded at peak times on heavily over booked flights. Things have now apparently got much better.

Regards

[bealine]

Whoever was the first to say "99% of the world's problems are caused by a lack of communication" deserves an accolade. It's 99% true about One-World too!

Unfortunately, the alignment of Frequent Flyer membership into Ruby, Sapphire and Emeald tiers was designed to eliminate exactly such a difficulty as the one you describe. I can only assume that either Q.A.N.T.A.S has "gone it alone" by offering something the other partners don't (in which case it doesn't apply across One-World) or the information hasn't been cascaded to those who matter - those employees interfacing with the customer!

rsosman is quite right - we await the all-singing, all-dancing features of Amadeus with bated breath. We're told this will even tell us your complete travel history when we check you in! The chance to have time for a bit of idle chit-chat would be nice!!!

(Cynically, he remembers Amadeus was the same disaster area which caused the BA worldwide computer systems crash last summer!)

All I can suggest DX Wombat, is in the meantime, find a little space in your carry on for your Frequent Flyer benefits leaflet so your back, and our backs, are fully covered!

('Cos we get it in the neck if we don't charge the Excess baggage amounts we're supposed to!)

;)

[Globaliser]

I don't think that these problems are unique to the BA/QF relationship or to oneworld. People complain about this sort of thing in every supposedly-seamless airline alliance.

I've occasionally had similar problems with BA/QF, but they have been very infrequent compared to the number of flights I've taken, and they are relatively small problems compared to the real benefits of the alliance. Chief amongst those for me are the flexibility of "Valid BA/QF" even on the cheapest fares, lounge access across both airlines' networks worldwide (through QF Club), earning QF status (and hence business class check in privileges - and eventually lounge access) on all BA flights, etc. etc.

You can minimise the risks of miscommunication by only booking the code of the operating airline. I know that now reduces your FF miles earn (no status bonus) if you book the BA code rather than the QF code on BA, but I regard that as a small price - and status earning is the same.

Also, BA stations that check in for QF (notably LHR T4) should have a crib card at the check in desks which sets out unequivocally and accurately what privileges the various QF tiers should have. In any event, my own experience of BA check in agents (business class desks) for excess baggage has been great. On one occasion, I turned up with about 55 kgs (20 kg allowance on ticket). The agent said she'd have to charge me. I said that I should have an extra baggage allowance. She tried to phone a supervisor but couldn't get through, so shrugged her shoulders and just checked all the bags. An extreme example of the typical BA attitude, which keeps my money flowing towards them and QF. (At SYD, the QF agents don't even seem to read the total weights but that's another story.)

For lounge access, BA lounges have a similar crib card at the desk, in case there is any doubt. It's worth asking to see it if you run into trouble.

It's also worth printing out and carrying the oneworld Ruby/QF Silver privileges pages off the websites - should be just a couple of pages.

bealine: Unfortunately, the alignment of Frequent Flyer membership into Ruby, Sapphire and Emeald tiers was designed to eliminate exactly such a difficulty as the one you describe. I can only assume that either Q.A.N.T.A.S has "gone it alone" by offering something the other partners don't (in which case it doesn't apply across One-World) or the information hasn't been cascaded to those who matter - those employees interfacing with the customer! It's true that it actually sounds less like oneworld problems, and more like problems when being checked in by BA agents for a QF flight on a QF aircraft, or for a QF code on a BA aircraft. Classic handling/codesharing problems.

But there are some BA stations which can't get the oneworld stuff right, either. My biggest oneworld problem has been that many BA check in agents in the US just will not accept that oneworld Ruby has business class check in privileges. And of course if you start off your check in process with an argument about whether you should be at that desk or not, it rather queers the pitch for any other sort of discussion. (At least on the last occasion I ultimately had the last laugh, from the pleasure of demonstrating to the agent her own incompetence in failing to pull my flight coupon.)

[rsoman]

Bealine
Amadeus cutover by BA was not such a disaster considering the fact that it was a global simultAenous cutover and not a phased one. From what I understand things went much worse with US Air when they cutover to Sabre!.
And yes, Amadeus is indeed quite friendly to the users having interacted quite a lot with its users as well as some of its competitors.
www.checkmytrip.com is useful for the passengers (if they have an amadeus pnr).

[bealine]

Thanks for your support, Globaliser - your money flowing through our tills is mightily appreciated even if it doesn't always appear so!

As a humble check-in agent, I was under the impression that the "One-World Ruby" tier was equivalent to our BA Executive Club "Blue" card which does not have Business Class priveliges. Now, I'm not one, as you know, to belittle our customers by giving them the big "e" when there's no queue. However, during the peak of summer when Gatwick was just a big mess, I may have been guilty of it.

Would you happen to know of a web address where I can update myself (and my LGW colleagues) with the One-World member benefits???

(As you can guess, our management are doing an outstanding job at keeping us well-informed!!!)

;)

rsosman - Sorry - Flippancy always was my weakness - I somehow can't resist it!

You're right though, from what we've heard, Son of Amadeus will indeed be a very powerful tool for the airlines and the customers alike!

The link to checkmytrip could be very useful - we'll have to be careful what we write into people's bookings now - eh?

:D ;) :D

[goback]

The oneworld site address is www.oneworldalliance.com
Click on 'benefits' and then on the respective airline.
I think the problem is that BA doesn't have a 'Ruby' level. Rather it starts with the BA silver which is OW sapphire. So comparing to Qantas silver, which is OW ruby, causes the difficulties. I have found no problems myself using Qantas Silver/OW Ruby with AA as they too have a OW Ruby card (which is Gold in their scheme of things!). So really it is a problem with BA being a bit different.


OW // BA // QF // AA

No Status // Blue // Bronze // Ordinary card

Ruby // No Card // Silver // Gold

Sapphire // Silver // Gold // Platinum

Emerald // Gold // Platinum // Exec Platinum



Perhaps OW might convince the member airlines to commit to a plan to rationalise all these different levels to some more identifiable standard than a little blob of colour in the corner of the card.

I hope this helps.

[edited to try to fix table]

[bealine]

Thanks, go back..........that makes things a little clearer.

;)

[Globaliser]

www.oneworld.com also works now. It's difficult making hyperlinks to the individual benefits pages, though, because it's done on a forms submit. Anyway, with the benefit of a bit of digging, try these.

Qantas oneworld benefits:-
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=1&uni_tier=55 (Platinum/Emerald)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=1&uni_tier=51 (Gold/Sapphire)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=1&uni_tier=56 (Silver/Ruby)

British Airways oneworld benefits:-
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=5&uni_tier=6 (Gold/Emerald)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=5&uni_tier=12 (Silver/Sapphire)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=5&uni_tier=59 (Blue/non-tier)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=5&uni_tier=-1 (terms and conditions page, FWIW)

American Airlines oneworld benefits:-
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=4&uni_tier=2 (Executive Platinum/Emerald)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=4&uni_tier=10 (Platinum/Sapphire)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=4&uni_tier=9 (Gold/Ruby)

I can do more of them for other carriers, if anyone wants.

[bealine]

Thanks Globaliser...........things are becoming a little clearer and I now understand why the One World "Ruby" flash doesn't appear on our Blue cards!

I will spread the word around LGW because not a lot of check-in agents are aware that "Ruby" gives these benefits!!! Obviously the strength of One-World, Star or any other Alliance is dependant on the individual airline employees recognising the benefits being marketed to the clientele and "practising what we preach!!!"

Thank you for enlightening us!!!

:D

[rsoman]

Bealine
An RC instead of an RM will ensure your comments remain with yourself and never reach your friendly pax (unless your equally friendly colleague inadvertently gives him the whole printout!).
Cheers!
RSO

[DistantRumble]

And kids

Aer Lingus Gold Circle is Ruby too !

(please don't forget about us - there's not that many ! )


Bea - keep up the good work

if we had more like you posting up to date info the world would be a better place. :p

[goback]

Bealine

I am certainly glad to help you in your job as I have seen how difficult it can be just in terms of dealing with difficult travellers. Your interest in your job is much appreciated as well.

Also I hope it will help fellow OW 'rubies' (!?!).

DistantRumble: I didn't mean to exclude other OW rubies in my pseudo-table, I was frustrated trying to put it together, so I gave up after AA. Sorry about that!

[Globaliser]

Ta da! In the interests of better service for DR and like company.

Aer Lingus oneworld benefits:-
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=89&uni_tier=74 (Elite/Emerald)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=89&uni_tier=76 (Prestige/Sapphire)
www.oneworld.com/satellite/tier.cfm?teamid=89&uni_tier=75 (Gold Circle/Ruby)

[bealine]

Going back to the origin of this post, I have visited the Queensland and Northern Territories Airline Services' web page concerning their Silver Card (Ruby "One World") and can't find any mention of the additional baggage allowance - obviously this is an airline benefit and not "One World". I would therefore assume that Q.A.N.T.A.S. haven't ensured British Airways front-line staff are aware of this factor on our codeshares (and the fact we check QF flights in at LHR).

Would you know if this 30 kg allowance is shown anywhere on your flight coupon or ticket? You see, as I've mentioned elsewhere, we get hammered by our management if we undercharge the Excess baggage and it is important that you receive the allowances you're entitled to.

Please, for the sake of your fellow QF Silver Card holders, if this extra allowance is not documented on your tickets, report this back to Q.A.N.T.A.S. at your next opportunity so that this oversight can be rectified!

"Trathnona", Distant Rumble, "Caed Mile Failte!"
(For the unitiated, that means "Good Evening", Distant Rumble, "A Hundred Thousand Welcomes!"

There, now that I've impressed you, I'll have to confess it's the only wee bit of Gaelic I know - but 'tis a start! (Bealine hangs head in shame for he had an Irish mother!) I'm practisin' for the day DR berls along to my desk for the EI 469 or whatever!

Seriously, though, thank you for your input regarding our One World card tiers! Me printer's being working overtime and I'll make sure that at LGW you're treated right!

It's even more important to us, 'cos Aer Lingus is handled by BA staff and we see the Gold Circle cards on a daily basis!

BTW - Anyone wanting to get a wee taster of Gaelic, perhaps for a weekend jaunt "across the water" or to keep Distant Rumble happy, could visit

http://www.travlang.com/languages/cgi-bin/langchoice.cgi?lang1=english&lang2=irish&page=main

You can listen to the pronunciations too!

[Globaliser]

The extra baggage allowance will not be on the ticket, because that (in my experience) always produces the contracted baggage allowance under the relevant tariff. The computers that produce the ticket are unlikely to know what benefits accrue to the individual pax under an airline's concessionary schemes, and the benefit is dependent on your status at the time of travel rather than the time of ticketing, anyway.

All the QF non-oneworld privileges are on this chart - http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/statusPrivileges - which shows not only the extra baggage allowance but also priority handling entitlements. These are for QF pax on QF flights (so really only directly relevant to LHR T4 check in, as far as London's concerned) - and the oneworld benefits are on the pages previously linked to and also at the bottom of this one - http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/privileges - on the QF site.

Hope all this helps. Thank you for disseminating the information amongst your colleagues, too. We genuinely all benefit from this. If you have the opportunity, though, it might be worth drawing management's attention to this as there seems to be a blockage in information flow/training which ought (as it seems to a complete outsider) be relatively simply to sort out.

[t3953]

Hey everyone,

Being a former customer service agent with EI there do seem to be a lot of discrepancies in the alliance

THings such as an extra 10kgs for QF Club members is strictly only on QF services. If it was a Oneworld entitlment it would be published as so therefore the other airlines are not entitled to uphold it even on codeshare flights unless the pax is traveling on a QF titled ticket(although I would have...arent I nice)!!! Its as though because QF brings in one special offer it can hardly expect a totally different airline to honour it just because they are in an agreement elsewhere! However, dont be so hard on the checkin agent for not knowing this straight away because beleive it or not, they do have to know a lot about procedures for other airlines and it can be confusing sometimes!

I hope that example helps out and I hope that EI and a few other airlines join QF/BA/IB in Amadues! It could really smooth things out for the alliance.

Mind you, it seems that the One World Alliance seems to be turning more towards the economic advantages of the airlines (engineering cooperation, Aircraft purchasing, station integration) than benefits for the customers!

But maybe thats another topic!

All the Best!!! :cool:

[DX Wombat]

Thanks for all the information so far, it looks very useful.
Bealine and Globaliser - the ticket was indeed where the problem lay. I had hoped that my Silver card etc would have reached me before I last left Oz but that was not to be. QF assured me that I WAS entitled to all the relevant priviledges as it would show up on the computer at check-in. Fine when you are leaving Oz but, as you have seen, not when trying to leave the UK via Manchester where BA is the handling agent. Part of the problem was that my ticket was issued before I gained silver status and that is likely to be repeated when I next leave the UK as I already have that ticket too. This time however, I will have my paperwork with me as I was able to collect it when I arrived here a week or so ago. I have no quibblewith the person at check-in, she was doing her job and, as I said, we discussed the problem in a pleasant, civilised manner and resolved it amicably. Both QF and BA will be receiving a suitably worded letter from me in due course suggesting that it might help if each member of the OW Alliance knew what the other members allowances were.
Bealine, when I get back to the UK I will scan a copy of the various priviledges and email it to you - I'll warn you first so you won't think you are getting a virus-ridden email. The various items are laid out quite neatly and it is easy to see what is what. It might be an idea if all the participating airlines provided each other with a copy which could be made into a quick-reference sheet for check-in personnel. It would hardly be a weighty tome a one sheet per member airline. :D

[Globaliser]

DX Wombat: I had hoped that my Silver card etc would have reached me before I last left Oz but that was not to be. QF assured me that I WAS entitled to all the relevant priviledges as it would show up on the computer at check-in. Fine when you are leaving Oz but, as you have seen, not when trying to leave the UK via Manchester where BA is the handling agent. Part of the problem was that my ticket was issued before I gained silver status and that is likely to be repeated when I next leave the UK as I already have that ticket too. What you were told by QF before you left was right. The BA/QF computer links are normally good enough to communicate the proper status without you having the correct card.

I've just had an experience of this working for me in October/November. I flew LHR-MIA-LHR, and qualified for QF Gold on the outbound flight. Obviously I did not have my card by the time I flew the return flight a week later. But on checking in, the boarding pass had "Sapphire" printed on it - no problems. (I also got both a through-check bag tag and boarding passes for the EK flights I was interlining to at LHR, despite the fact that they were on a completely separate booking and ticket - thank you BA for a lot of avoided hassle!)

I find that it is always worth a call to BA res to check that the QF number is properly in the BA booking computer, and that your PNR has been automatically annotated with the correct oneworld status, as should happen as soon as the FF number goes in.

[Scottie Dog]

An interesting thread, but one that seems only to look at the Alliances from the prospective of the traveller trying to get the most for themselves, and of course there is nothing wrong in that itself.

As an individual working in corporate travel, I never cease to be amazed by the problems that are caused by these so called alliances to the traveller. Consider all of the code sharing that is undertaken by airlines. You book on British Airways and the flight may be operated by anyone of a number of other airlines.

From the point of view of the travel agent, the biggest problems can arise where a ticket on departure has to be arranged. Do they use the same CRS system? I well remember colleagues of mine in the past who have made reservations for passengers on British Midland code shares from Scandinavia where the flight was operated by SAS. The BD system did not have an Amadeus locator and when the travellers tried to collect the ticket from SAS in Scandinavia they had no record of the TOD details. I must admit that I would always try to make the reservation through and on the flight of the operating carrier, rather than on the code sharing airline, however this does not always give the cheapest fare and so has to be ignored on occasions. A classic case is when Sabre use to quote a lower fare from Teesside to Heathrow on Lufthansa than on British Midland. I seem to recall that this also happen from Heathrow to Paris with the same airlines.

The other problem to watch out for is whether the airlines even use the same terminal at an airport. British Airways code share with Swiss between Heathrow and Basel, but British Airways do not have a ticket desk in Terminal 2 which is where the flight departs from as it is operated by Swiss. If a ticket on departure is arranged through British Airways, then British Airways will not guarantee to take the ticket to Terminal 2 and so the passenger has to collect from Terminal 1 before proceeding through the link corridor to the departure terminal to check in.

In this latter situation I would strongly recommend that the use of a carrier for the sake of getting Miles be forgotten and that you following the instinct of a good travel agent who has not only experience but also an interest in the job, assuming that you are using one, and ensure that you are booked through the airline that you are travelling with.

Kind regards

Scottie Dog

NB. This was written off line other the weekend and the comments made might have been superseded by any other postings since 22nd November.

[thadocta]

Seriously, having read all of the above, I am somewhat perturbed.

I am a Qantas Gold FF, and as some of you may know, Qantas revamped their FF program (all of which I agree with) and part of it was renaming their tiers from: White, Blue, Silver Gold TO Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum.

One of the points that Qantas made whan they made the changes was to bring them into alignment with their fellow OneWorldmembers.

Why can't OneOwlrd juct stipulate a standard policy - (using Qantas membership levels as an example) "There are four membership levels - Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum. Your program can have whatever benefits you like, and you can decide what it takes to get to that level, but once a member gets to that level, they are entitled to certain facilities, stipulated by OneWorld. Those facilities will be extended to other members of the same level of other OneWorld members.

I suppose what I am saying here is that everyone with a top tier membership of a OneWorld airline should enter a lounge with a card of the same colour (rather than a card of various colours with a small blob of colour at the bottom which the reception desk tries to find).

Am I making sense here?

Dave

[Globaliser]

thadocta: Why can't OneOwlrd juct stipulate a standard policy - (using Qantas membership levels as an example) "There are four membership levels - Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum. Your program can have whatever benefits you like, and you can decide what it takes to get to that level, but once a member gets to that level, they are entitled to certain facilities, stipulated by OneWorld. Those facilities will be extended to other members of the same level of other OneWorld members.

I suppose what I am saying here is that everyone with a top tier membership of a OneWorld airline should enter a lounge with a card of the same colour (rather than a card of various colours with a small blob of colour at the bottom which the reception desk tries to find).Isn't the only substantive difference between that and the current system that it's the colour blob which is the common feature across the oneworld members? The only other thing which causes real difficulty, as far as I can see, is that BA refuses to have a ruby tier membership. The actual marketing names of the tiers for individual airlines may be influenced by local conditions in the airline's "home" market, and for most pax it's likely to be those conditions which are more important for the marketing gurus than the wider ramifications worldwide for the smaller proportion of members who are genuine FFs.