Licence and Approvals Suspension Procedure

[Bill Pike]

AOPA has been successful in its efforts to have some procedural fairness put into the procedure for the suspension or cancellation of licenses or privileges. In the future operators cannot be told, after 30 years of safe operation and a clean slate as far as any charges was concerned, that their Certificate will not be renewed "in the morning", as happened to Yanda Airlines, leaving the operator to face a hearing in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, (a body whose members are given fixed terms by the Government and reappointed at Government discretion, another bone of contention) some time in the future, whilst going bankrupt. Now an automatic stay will be granted unless CASA claims an immediate threat to public safety, a big call. This has been achieved solely by the lobbying efforts of AOPA, much maligned in this site. Bill Hamilton, "the old walrus," Chris McKeown "the Canberra based barrister" and myself and AOPA generally (ineffective, sidelined, etc et al) using examples such as the above, convinced the Minister in face to face meetings that CASA cannot remain "accuser, judge, jury and executioner." We had no direct support of which I am aware from any other professional body. (AOPA also dragged AIPA to the Senate hearings re protections for cockpit voice recorder. Without us their objections would have remained unheard in the ATSB files. ) The very existence of this process will pressure CASA officers to be very careful in their accusations and actions, Federal Magistrates will require convincing, they will not tolerate poor or anecdotal evidence. Every pilot, professional or private or student, every AOC or Certificate of Approval Holder, is now beholden to AOPA.
F.W. (Bill) Pike
President
AOPA

[Creampuff]

I’m not sure which image is uppermost in my mind.

Neville Chamberlain declaring ‘peace in our time’, or Benito Mussolini declaring himself savior of all civilisation.

Would your eminence condescend to answering a question from a groveling supplicant?

Does your eminence comprehend the distinction between the Minister and the Parliament, and comprehend which makes and unmakes the law?

[Bill Pike]

Good Nom de Plume Creampuff, what sort of coward makes insulting remarks hiding behind anonymity? Not exactly the stuff of the ANZAC legend son..

[ulm]

Hey come on Creampuff, give the guy a chance. His tone might be a little over the top and Napoleonic (quite like yours actually), but look at the message.

And as for making 'law', well what I think we are looking at here is regulatory procedure. Made by CASA under the direction of the minister. So unless it changes the act or a reg it doen't need to go anywhere near the parliament or Senate.

Do you understand the procedures Creampuff???? ;)

You think cringing violets are gonna volunteer to do this stuff, Pike is a bit like a zoomie (except he wasn't) arrogant as hell, annoys the sh!ite outa ya, but seems to get the job done :D

Chuck

[CoodaShooda]

Ulm
Far be it for me to stand in support of Creampuff, but I fear he understands the procedures only too well.

Tom has obviously put in a lot of hard work to achieve what, on the surface, appear to be significant concessions - and I hope those concessions prevail in the detail.

But the sketchy reports released to date suggest CASA will now become more powerful and less accountable.

[ulm]

CS

I can only see what has been reported as a regulatory direction. Yeah CASA can ignore the Minister, as they have in the past. But pretty soon even his tiny little brain will get the sh!ts and he will start sacking people.

He has the power to sack Toller, the Board and to order the removal of any SES position.

So, if they keep up thier nonsense they will eventually pay.

All I am saying is, give Pike a chance. He works his guts out for GA, free, as do a number of others. In my humble opinion he does OK, to make AOPA work again we just need rid of the boys from Bankstown and the fool from the deep north :)

Chuck

[CoodaShooda]

ulm
Its not so much a matter of CASA ignoring the Minister...more the professional bureaucrats having the opportunity to manipulate and control him. (Much harder when there's a Board involved.)

As far as AOPA goes, I feel we are in agreement. A clever industry would use ALL of the resources available to it in furthering its aims.

[Creampuff]

Bill: So you say it; so it is done.

I confess that I’m just a girly, acne-stippled, wheelchair-bound coward.

My opinion is, accordingly, wrong.

For those like CS and Ulm reckless enough to risk Il Duce’s wrath by daring even to consider a dissenting opinion, the following is the wording of the printed statement that Neville Chamberlain waved as he stepped off the plane on 30 September, 1938 after the Munich Conference had ended the day before:We, the German Führer and Chancellor, and the British Prime Minister, have had a further meeting today and are agreed in recognizing that the question of Anglo-German relations is of the first importance for our two countries and for Europe.

We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again.
We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and we are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference, and thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe.Chamberlain read the above statement in front of 10 Downing Street and said:My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time...
Go home and get a nice quiet sleep.Ulm: I have nothing but unalloyed respect for people like the two Captains Bill and Chris McKeown, who go to an enormous amount of effort to promote the interests of apathetic freeloaders. But a brave, able-bodied, clean-skinned, wise old bloke once counseled me to: celebrate results, not effort.

Bill seems to be confusing words for results.

That’s the mistake Neville Chamberlain made.

You think that:what … we are looking at here is regulatory procedure.You are mistaken.

In order to achieve the ‘peace for the aviation industry’ described in the statement waved around by the Minister and Bill, the law must be changed. Words twice: the the law law must must be be changed changed.

If the law didn’t have to change, and the Minister alone had the power to bring about what sounds like it will be the aviation equivalent of the second coming, why would he make you wait until July next year?

[CoodaShooda]

Creampuff

celebrate results, not effort

And therein lies the problem when responsibility rests solely with politicians and 'process bound' professional bureaucrats. :rolleyes:


PS Love your historical references. Wasn't it Churchill who opined that those who failed to learn from history were doomed to repeat it?

[Torres]

ulm: Do you understand the procedures Creampuff????

Creampuff made an art form of suspension of AOCs and financially ruining operators! :mad:

Bill, the procedural changes in suspensions of AOC's etc are to be applauded, however I fear the provision "unless CASA claims an immediate threat to public safety" will be exploited by CASA's white shoe brigade, just as they have always done in the AAT.

Until the alleged "..immediate threat to public safety" can be tested and verified by an independently competent auditor, CASA will continue to exploit this provision.

But the changes are a move in the right direction! :)

[Al E. Vator]

Why are AOPA people so aggro?

I've owned an aircraft for about 2 years now and toyed with joining AOPA but have been put off by the antics of their spokespeople. I simply find media statements by the Vice President embarassing, abrasive beyond belief and uneccesarily confrontationalist (this is reflected by most who work with him at the red rat, particularly co-pilots). He also uses the AOPA position as his own personal soapbox for unrelated subjects (union matters etc) where otherwise nobody else would give him the time of day.

The above post from Bill Pike is another example. Yes on the surface it appears as though some good has been done (well done there) but the tone reminds me of a drunken father yelling at his kids "I put friggin' food on ya table now don't I, so be grateful".

Yes the state of GA in Australia is a crying shame. To see Bankstown and Moorabbin nearly deserted saddens me beyond belief in a country when compared to 20 and 30 years ago. GA definitely needs a "champion" to look after it but I am far from convinced AOPA is that organisation. The US AOPA is a different story - politically savvy and a class act. Apparently relations between the US AOPA and our local branch are not cordial, again as a result of somebody within the local branch getting the yanks offside. Why operate like this?

Perhaps more could be achieved by AOPA if the individuals at the 'top' stopped yelling at people. From the above post by the President himself and evidence from other members of AOPA, it is painfully obvious that any dissenting views within what should be a democratically-based organisation are treated with disdain if not in-line with that of the pugnacious individuals at the top.

As an aside, how do the membership numbers of AOPA now compare to say those of 1995 or 1996?

Bill Pikes' post above is a nice illustration of why I haven't joined AOPA. I suggest I am far from alone.

[Dale Harris]

BEHOLDEN???? I think not my friend.......... I for one am beholden to no one.

[Tail_Wheel]

Conversely, Australia has the General Aviation Association and Regional Airlines Association which appear to be an anaemic, toothless social clubs, achieving little to shape the industries they profess to represent.......

Whilst I’m not an AOPA supporter, at least AOPA appears to be active and achieving some positive results.

[Wagit]

I agree that Bill’s comments are over the top so are a lot of politicians comments.

I believe that CASA should only suspend licences on immediate safety threat to the aviation community and general public. They should also have to prove the threat. But once the issue or threat is resolved then the suspension should be removed. Only courts and magistrates should have the power to suspend cancel or vary a licence or certificate.

But my fear for the future of General Aviation is not suspension or cancellation of licences or certificates, I believe that this will be better controlled in the future. But the introduction of Infringement notices !!!!!!! Look at CAR 296A

Not carrying your licence sir!!!!!!!!!! In the past a Non Compliance Notice or Request for Corrective Action. Now a fine of $100.

Don’t thank the minister or AOPA to quickly!!!!!!!!!! I can see another great revenue creating machine about to enter the government coffers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Next the introduction of speed cameras, because they improve safety.
:confused:

[cficare]

What can you say (with certainty) about AOPA?

......Cant' bat
......Can't bowl.

[RYAN TCAD]

Wouldn't it be great if the entire GA Industry was overhauled.

But then again, that would be opening up a rather large can of worms - and at the end of the day, where would you start, and most importantly, who would do it?