Choosing a course

[Groundbased]

Hi,

I've been looking at the various courses that are available in Flight ops and Despatch, and have seen the thread on the Glasgow ICAO course.

I've also got details on other courses that lead to City and Guilds/NVQ qualifications and I am wondering which to choose. As I understand it there is no licence required to despatch in the UK (yet), so is there a preference when it comes to trying to get a job time?

THanks for any info

[TAM PAX]

The most sought after qualification would be an FAA Dispatchers course. Once you have this the world is your oyster !!! Only trouble is you have 2 spend 4-6 weeks in the US :D

Plus it costs a fair amount 2. If you invest in this you will earn the amount you spend out in a couple of years. The most admired FAA school is www.sheffield.com

Also have a look at www.aviationjobsearch.com under operations vacancies and SV Airlines have a job ad for a FAA qualified dispatcher and the starting salary isover £27000. Much better than the 16K i used 2 get at LGW.

I enquired about the ICAO course at GLA and am waiting untill the certifacte you receive on completion of the course is actually endorsed by ICAO.

[Uncle Cracker]

TP

Ref your last comment.
I would suggest at the moment this would be very sound advice for anyone thinking of starting the GLA course.

[TAM PAX]

Yeah they offer a variety of C & G courses www.avtech2000.co.uk

[no sig]

TIM PAX

Read back over this past 6 months or so where a great deal has been discussed regarding the ICAO FOO course.

The GLA course is in response to the upcoming changes to CAP360 and JAROPS1 regarding the training standards for Flight Operations Officers. As we don't have a licence requirement in the UK, on course completion you will be issued with a certificate.

The syllabus is driven by ICAO Doc7192 which is the training guide for the ICAO Licence. Glasgow College nautical Studies was chosen as it is already a JAROPS accredited flight crew training college.

Re the FAA licence, good qualification and essential if you choose to work for FAA based operators, however, if you are after a solid grounding in flight ops studies for your future and not just the ticket, I think you should have a closer look at the GLA course.

[Uncle Cracker]

Check your private messages.

[TAM PAX]

I have spoken to Kevin Maloney on numerous occasions regarding the ICAO course and have all the literature regarding the course.

However on the GLA site the course is advertised as:

ICAO Flight Ops Officer/Flight Dispatcher License distance learning course.

When i mailed him his response was that you do not get issued with a dispatch license, but with a certificate issued by GLA college of nautical studies and that they HOPED ICAO would endorse these in the future.

So i agree the course looks great and covers alot, but i would only do the course when it is endorsed by ICAO.

[no sig]

TAM PAX

I understand where you are coming from on this. I can't speak for ICAO or the College of course, but as you'll know ICAO itself doesn't issue licences, ICAO Standards and Recommendation are adopted by member states and it is the state which takes a view on what best suits its operation. In the UK the CAA has recently stated that we do not require the licencing of FOO or FD's instead, as they have always done, leaving it to the individual operator to ensure the competence of their operations personnel, but for the first time, they have set the standard to which this training should be conducted. In the linked FODCOM, the CAA consulted UK operators, and what has followed is that the ICAO Doc 7192 D3 provides a sound basis for the training of FOO/FD staff. I understand JAROPS1 will be amended to reflect this stance in the not too distant furture.

If you are in country that issues FOO Licences, then I would say that the GLA course will undoubtly offer you the study material to pass a formal ICAO licence exam. The College has adhered very closely to the 7192 doc in the development of this course, but has also added content for the European JAROPS environment.

Whether, ICAO will provide an endorsment the course or not is something I believe the College will persue in the furture.

If it is a licence you want, then the FAA is the most recognised, but as I said before, if you want a solid foundation in flight ops studies that will see you through your career then the ICAO course offers you much more at a reasonable price.

See SRG website :

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD200118.pdf

[TAM PAX]

Would you know the reason why its called:

ICAO Flight Operations/Flight Dispatcher LICENCE distance learning course ???

As they dont issue a licence, maybe a tad off the mark.

As the question that was asked by Groundbased, Which Course?

I would continue to suggest that an FAA dispatcher license would be more sought after by a potential employer than an unendorsed certficate from glasgow college. I know that the glasgow course meets ICAO/CAA suggestions. However if you have an FAA license you are employable worldwide and the FAA training is respected throughout the world.

[no sig]

TAM PAX

The course is based on the ICAO FOO/FD licence requirement, however as I mentioned the UK CAA do not issue licences, so it may be that, for example, a student in another country that does , may use this course as their study material for their own state exams. Its the same as the College offering JAR ATPL study material, they don't issue the licence, but anyone studying for a JAR ATPL could use their course materials.

Sorry you're right I should have been addressing Groundbased.

On your last point, let me put it this way; I have hired many an operations officer in my time and those who have the FAA licence definitely have an advantage over those who don't, but, given two equal candidates in every other respect, I would likely hire the ICAO course person, simply on the basis that I know they have had the commitment to study to a much higher level than the FAA licence syllabus requires. Also, that the study materials they used were focused on the European aviation environment and not the FAA's.

But if Groundbased has plans to travel and work in the FAA environment then, by all means do the FAA ticket, they are both valuable.

PS: TAM are you really in Kabul?

[TAM PAX]

I guess they both have their advantages !!!

I have always seen advertised positions that favour the FAA. As the ICAO qualification is a new venture i will watch with interest.

However if groundbased wants to Dispatch any American registered aircraft an FAA licence would help, As would having one and working for most middle east airlines.

No Sig have you done the ICAO course yourself ???

[no sig]

TAM PAX

I hold the FAA dispatch licence, but have not done the ICAO course. But I have been personally involved in editing the course materials to meet the 7192 requirements, so I've been through every module of the course in detail. I am also part of the UK Ops Managers Assoc. (UKOMA) working group who have been part of this exercise.

My view is that the UK has long needed a standard for ops/flight dispatcher training and I am delighted that the CAA have, at last, defined what that should be. I make no apology for being an advocate for this course, there have been other courses which have been of value, the City and Guilds comes to mind, but we now have an internationally recognised standard, albeit without licence. The Glasgow College were keen to work with us and having already most of the training materials from the ATPL course, were well positioned to kick this project off. The editing of the course has been, and still is, being supervised by expereinced airline ops managers from a variety of airlines.

The course will take time to gather momentum and so far the College have not advertised. This first course batch has around 50 students.

This ICAO syllabus is nothing new and if you're interested, take a look at the IFALDA website who have been working on the ICAO steering group to update some of the materials.

http://www.ifalda.org/IFALDA%20Web%20PPT%20Folder/Amending%20FDTM.ppt