View Full Version : All Quiet on the Eastern Front
shortly
20th Nov 2002, 12:00
Apart from a couple of sentences in the SCMP there has been little reaction to the loss of the first court battle in California. If you cannot convince the US courts, well you know. I think that only leaves the court case in Oz and the labour tribunal in Pommie land to come. I would have thought the AOA would have made some reactive comment but there you are. CX management must be celebrating as the finding was strongly against the AOA litigants and leaves little reason for higher appeal - even if the California Supreme Court decides to let that happen.
Just an other number
20th Nov 2002, 13:14
PCCW
CX's tactics pale into insignificance compared to PCCW over the last few days. 25% redundant, 50% hived off to new subsidiary with 20% pay cut, 25% ditto with only 10% cut. Sorry I've simplified the maths but this is the general picture.
Times are bad in HK.
BusyB
20th Nov 2002, 15:54
Yes, you are obviously disappointed that the press has not made more of it as you are trying to. Perhaps they realise that the other cases are more important. I'm happy to wait, I'm sure Justice isn't blind!
shortly
20th Nov 2002, 23:08
No Busy that was not the point, merely surprised that there has been no comment from the AOA. The other cases more important, what a joke, you are starting to believe your own spin doctors. A couple of labour tribunal hearings and one of those very complicated with three different categories of worker involved in the same dispute. For many months now we have been fed the line that the overseas legal system will coerce CX management into a seachange. All along I have said that it won't happen, that the strategy was wrong, that the AOA got it wrong. The other cases of litigation have nowhere near the potential to financially hurt the company as the US court case did. That is why that decision was so very significant.
Truth Seekers Int'nl
20th Nov 2002, 23:20
life in HK and Cathay is great, few beers with AOA members and down route. good pay and conditions so far. I feel sorry for the guys who hung out waiting for the ban to be lifted, courses are all now full.
am still prepared to join AOA........but alas. won't matter this time in two years, year we replacement drivers will be equal in numbers and there won't be an AOA.
christep
21st Nov 2002, 02:11
Just an other number
I hope I never have to rely on your maths on a fuel or navigation calculation...
PCCW has just made 527 people redundant out of a workforce of about 12,000. That's about 5%, not 25%.
The subsidiary is taking about 3,000. That's 25% not 50%. The paycut is approximately 10% not 20%.
This is primarily a reflection of the state of the telecoms business worldwide, not specific to Hong Kong. I am in the same business: we have laid off about 30% of our staff worldwide (meaning about 40,000 people). Many of our competitors have laid off over 50%.
What has this got to do with Cathay anyway?
Plastique
21st Nov 2002, 02:23
Yawn.
BusyB
21st Nov 2002, 04:40
Shortly, I believe very few individuals, however, I suspect that the consequences, financial and otherwise, of CX being found to have evaded local employment laws and costs will be far-reaching. Hence, I await with interest the other cases.
backspace
21st Nov 2002, 20:37
I think I must have missed something, which isn't unusual!
Can someone explain how court cases outside of Hong Kong will have any influence on Cathay in Hong Kong or its employees. Or are there court cases in Hong Kong as well?
shortly
21st Nov 2002, 23:45
Busy B. You know that legally CX was within its rights to terminate the 49ers under the three month rule. Not morally but most assuredly legally under Hong Kong labour law. The only hope for the overseas court and labour tribunal cases, from an AOA perspective, is for the judge or whomsoever decrees to determine that the home countries labour laws apply to people of that country working overseas employed by a foreign firm. I would not think that likely in most of the cases. In the UK situation there are three classes of worker involved, those working in Hong Kong, those working for Veta and those based in the UK but working for CX. Should the decision go against CX -and I seriously doubt that, then what would be the reaction of CX? Pay some compensation and as we are talking labour tribunal here, the sums would be small. Then they would have their legal beagles go over all contracts with a fine tooth comb and screw us all completely to the wall. Not one 49er would be re-employed. However, most of us would sign the new contracts. There would be mass defections from the myopic AOA and the company would be in an even stronger position. As I have said before great strategy.
HUSTLER
22nd Nov 2002, 01:42
Shortly,
It seem's like your the only one celebrating.
If you are a pilot like you say, then WHY are you so pleased that the 49'ers lost that court case.
HUSTLER
It should now be clear to your little band of Aussie follower's that you are indeed management, not one pilot ive flown with, AOA or not shows the malice you do to the 49er's
In todays climate, CX management could slice the pilot (and cabin crew for that matter) pay by 20% or so....many would bit@h and moan, but still remain.
Where would they go otherwise?
Shareholders, OTOH would be very pleased, i'm sure.
Those who make big waves, sometimes find their little boat swamped.
shortly
22nd Nov 2002, 09:01
Hustler. Was that a Freudian slip? I have shown no malice to the 49ers at all, au contraire. I do not agree with the overseas court/labour tribunal actions and have made that clear before. I assume that throw away sentence in your post was for me. My position is that most of the 49ers would have been back at work long ago with a different strategy from the myopic AOA. Even in the event that the litigants are successful it won't bring them back to work. So what is the aim here? A change in Hong Kong labour laws? Yup that is likely. Some compensation for the 49ers? Well a labour tribunal is slap on the wrist stuff and you need a clear victory in a court of law to get anything substantive. You are right I should stop wasting my time by posting as the information I try to give is wasted and mis-quoted anyway. So I'll stop posting when you guys stop spreading disinformation ok.
Oasis
22nd Nov 2002, 14:53
Where we would go, 411a?
We would go to arizona and kick you where the sun dont shine.
;-)
Travelin' to HKG in the new year Oasis...you can stop by the Excelsior and pay your respects;) ;)
Oasis
23rd Nov 2002, 05:10
Nah, just kidding! Enjoy the new year in HKG.
penguin
23rd Nov 2002, 21:30
I can't believe 411A stays at the Excelsior. A man with his statue should be staying at HongKong Hilton. :D
HotDog
23rd Nov 2002, 21:52
I thought a man with a "statue" resides in a cemetery.:D