Off airfield confined areas

[The Nr Fairy]

Last Saturday myself and an instructor went to a confined area off airfield - like everything, the one on the airfield I can almost get in and out of blindfold (if it wasn't against the rules, but that's another thread :D )

So, we went, we recced, we got in, turned around and left. Anyone else have their favourite off-airfield sites to do this sort of stuff ? And what sort of stuff do YOU consider, apart from the normal stuff - we included a check for rule 5.

And it was fun - properly recce'ing, approaching and getting into a new site.

[Grainger]

Fun, and an essential part of your training and ongoing practice.

The ability to visit off-airfield sites is one of the best things about helicopter flight.

Rule 5 - yes. Also, always - always check and double-check for poles, wires and cables. I'm paranoid about 'em. Easy enough to remember when you are recce'ing and approaching the site - and very easy to forget when departing. So watch out.

The other thing is: never assume anything. I found this out after visiting - solo - a site that I had previously been into with an instructor. Put me on the receiving end of an irate call from the landowner - apparently just because the instructor had taken me there didn't mean it was OK to use that site myself.

Not whacking the tail rotor off anything also helps your afternoon go smoothly - I'm very pleased to report that I do NOT speak from experience on that one.

Great way to spend the afternoon though - does wonders for your scan and hover control. Beats pounding around the circuit, doesn't it ? :D

[Vortex what...ouch!]

Been into quite a few off airfield sites now. I can definitely back up what Grainger says. I fly into a field close to home and know it quite well. I did a take off over some trees one-day and low and behold there was a wire running between two of them that I had never spotted before. Luckily I was light and managed to climb over it. Salutary lesson in recceing the route OUT as well.

Always a challenge to ensure you have thought of everything when you fly to a new site. Keeps your nav up to speed too. Never dropped into the wrong spot…..yet :)

[MightyGem]

Many of my "WOW, this iss hit hot" moments have been while manoevering 5 tons of screaming death around the confines (sic) of a confined area.:D :D

[whirlycopter]

I always thought that rule 5 did not apply when landing or taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice?

Please let me know if i have mis-understood this point.

Cheers!

[Flying Lawyer]

My favourite off-airfield confined area is a private house where the garden is just big enough for a Gazelle. And I mean just big enough. When the disc looks as if it's almost touching the front door, the tail is clear.
Challenging, and perfectly safe. But I still wouldn't do it without an instructor ready to utter those comforting words 'I have control!' :)

Wires, wires and wires.
Not a helicopter story, but it makes the point well......

About 12 years ago I represented a very well-known aviator who had no alternative but to plead Guilty to endangering.
A light single had made a perfect forced landing in a field. The fault was rectified, but the field was pretty marginal for flying out. Solution: Ask X to do it. Very experienced pilot etc.
X went to the site, did all the necessary safety checks, paced the field, made sure it was long enough and, very important, checked for wires on the climb out etc. Tight, but it could be done. After a few fast taxi-runs to make sure, the big moment came.
X did a superb job. There were cheers of admiration as the a/c safely flew out of the field.
And, if he hadn't decided to celebrate his success by coming round for a low pass before flying away, all would have ended well. Unfortunately, he'd had no need to check the area behind him, and hadn't noticed the wires which ran from the farmhouse to a barn on the other side of the field!
Result? One wrecked aeroplane, and one very embarrassed pilot who ended up in the local Court.

I won't name the pilot because he wasn't as well-known in those days, and the only Press coverage was in the local paper.

[Grainger]

Correct, whirly - if you are actually landing, but confined area practice doesn't always involve ground contact. Recce - approach to hover - clear the area - depart. Technicality I know but if you do land there are other technicalities to consider such as having permission from the owner. (I've always wondered who the "owner" is if you land on top of a hill in the middle of nowhere... :confused: ).

Also how far do you stretch the definition of "... in accordance with good aviation practice". If you overfly someone's house half a mile away from the site whilst lining up for your recce does that count ? If the site is lower than the surrounding area you may be 500' above the site but less than that directly below you.

Thinking about the 500' keeps me sharp-eyed for peds on the ground too. Hillwalkers are smaller than sheep and less easy to spot.

Finally - always pays to think about being "good neighbours". No point riling the natives if you can think ahead and take a quieter route.

[Flying Lawyer]

One more cautionary tale before I get back to my work .....
Vortex says: "Keep your nav up to speed." He's right, and it can happen to the best.

Some years ago, I was defending a pilot in a case some distance from London. We arranged to meet the evening before the trial at a country house hotel not far from the Court. The pilot, a very experienced PPL (one of the best and most professional PPLs with whom I've ever flown) was at the hotel when my solicitor and I arrived. Chatting before dinner, the pilot (who'd flown in) suddenly said: "This place is bl**dy difficult to find from the air. You'll never believe what happened. I landed in the garden of a house a mile away. They were very nice about it. I can't believe it, all my flying is to private sites, I've never done that before. I was using my GPS. I can't understand it." He added he'd prefer we didn't say anything to the expert witness when he arrived because it was too embarrassing.
A little later, our expert witness arrived, an extremely experienced professional pilot. "Sorry I'm a little late. It's rather embarrassing to tell you, but ................. They were very nice about it. In fact, they said I was the second helicopter who'd landed there this evening."
Warning: Be cautious when a hotel receptionist gives you co-ordinates.

I'm pleased to say the pilot was rightly acquitted of all his charges in due course.

[Buitenzorg]

Three things, in no particular order of importance:

1) Check for wires;
2) ALWAYS know the wind direction and approximate strength;
3) Take it SLOW.

Legalities are a secondary consideration IMHO, they presume you're still around to be annoyed by the em******ance...

This last BTW is not a dig at Flying Lawyer whom I'm glad to have in our community.

[muffin]

Following Buitenzorg's last comments, knowing the wind is the trickiest part. If there is no smoke or other indicators, you have no choice but to use the wind at your departure point.

There is a small site I occasionally go into - actually the back car park of a local pub. The pub is at the front, and there are buildings set back on each side so there is only one way in or out directly from the back of the site. This is over open fields which drop away quite sharply, so the approach and departure track are OK. However I won't go there unless there is no wind at all, as if there is you have to either land or depart with the wind behind you.

A question for the experts. Faced with this situation, obviously the best answer is don't go there at all if there is any wind. But if you are faced with a site with one single entry and exit path, would you prefer a small amount of wind behind you on approach, take off or at 90 degrees?

[Grainger]

muffin:

Yeah, helps a lot if the site can fly a flag or small windsock !

In my experience, the local wind will frequently be quite different to the departure point. In the absence of smoke or other surface indicators - you can always fly a "clover-leaf" windfinding pattern. Always being aware of the effect of buildings etc. close to the actual landing point.

As for the site, you can only judge each site on its individual merits - as you say the surrounding topography is as much a factor as anything else.

[RobboRider]

There are a couple of options for guestimating the wind direction when no obvious clues exist.

The best one is the GPS - For an approximate idea just fly to your destination and compare Ground and Air speed. Complete a high circuit around the target comparing GS and AS and it becomes obvious where its coming from.

Even if you only use it to get a rough idea as you get closer to the ground the movement of the trees etc gets more obvious and you make minor corrections.

If you want to be more accurate use the "wind aloft" feature. Both my Garmin GPS's have it so I assume it's standard on other aviation GPS's. Its easy to use.

The second is the manual version. Fly a square circuit at a fixed airspeed straight and level. Pick a "time unit" for each leg and fly it precisely (say 1 minute per leg but with upwind and approach being each a half of the unit time.) Do tightish turns on accurate compass headings.

If you are in nil wind you would fly a square with the target in the midpoint of the approach/upwind leg. That is after you've flown the square you should be directly overhead the target.

If there is wind you will end up downwind of the target. Turn toward the target and you are into wind.

[TeeS]

Whirlycopter

The bit that I think you mean is Rule 5(4)(a) and (b). This does include the statement-

"-nothing in this rule shall prohibit any aircraft from flying in accordance with normal aviation practice, for the pupose of taking off from, landing at or practising approaches----"

But carries on to say-

"-at, a Government aerodrome, an aerodrome owned or managed by the Authority or a licensed aerodrome in the UK or at any aerodrome in any other country."

Part (b) goes on to say-

"The practising of approaches to landing shall be confined to the airspace customarily used by aircraft when landing or taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice at the aerodrome concerned.

So I fear that you can not throw consideration of rule 5 out of the window just because you are landing/taking off from your confined area.

Cheers

TeeS

[Helinut]

In Blighty,

The dilemna for instructors doing confined area training (rather than practice) is that you are likely to bust the 500 ft rule if you do not land, but you are only permitted to land at licensed airfields during training. An airfiled is generally not very confined, of course!:(

The proposed changes to Rule 5 (see recent thread) could make it even more difficult - if the 500 ft becomes a height rather than a separation distance.:(

Very occasionally, the CAA will issue an exemption for a particular site. However, since it involves someone in the CAA being responsible for something these are very hard to obtain. :(

[ShyTorque]

The UK Military teach "The five S's".

Size
Shape
Slope
Surface
Surrounds (look for those wires etc)

A sixth "S" for good measure is "Surface wind".

My missus says she chose me for similar reasons :D

[Whirlybird]

...and in Wales we add another 'S' - Sheep.

[Grainger]

Sheep can be very useful regarding the 500' rule.

If you can't see the sheep's legs you are more than 500' away from it.

If you can see the legs, you are closer than 500'.

[HeliMark]

Another option to consider for finding winds is doing a OGE hover (if possible). The direction that uses the least amount of power will be in the wind.

Or find a point on the ground and set up a fixed angle of bank around it. See which way the wind pushes you. Also while flying, look at your ground track and the angle of crab you may have in.

Landing downwind, is not a bad thing. Have done it a fair amount due to some of the area's I land in. But, it has to be respected and any hint that it is not working, get out.

[Randy_g]

S - sun, will you be approaching, or departing directly into the sun. Can make it really interesting when approaching a one-way pad when the sun is directly in your face.

S - shadow you can see whether the a/c will fit by using your shadow. If you have a good shadow, fly so that you put the shadow into the hole. Your shadow will never be smaller than the heli, so if it fits with a safety margin, so will you. I've used this one many, many times while on the initial attack of a forest fire. It's saved the blades a couple of times, and helped me get the firefighters into spots I didn't think we could get into.

Approaching/landing downwind can be done, and done safely. Sometimes it is the safest way into a confined area. Transport Canada's Vortex talks of one way to do it safely. http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/systemsafety/newsletters/TP202/2-02/V021.htm

To find the wind, slow to 35-40 kts, and fly in trim (very important) by the confined area one way, then reversed. If a x-wind, your nose will point to it's direction (if you are in trim). To tell if it's a tail/head wind, watch your groundspeed. The a/c will handle differently too. Headwind, groundspeed slower, controls feel more positive, tailwind, g/s higher, and controls feel a little more vague. Try it out next time you're doing circuits, if it's not too busy, pick a line on the ground, slow to 35-40 kts, and fly the line into wind, and then down wind. This way you can see/feel the difference. Then try it with a bit of x-wind. It won't take long, and you'll be able to feel the wind's direction without thinking about it too much. :)

Cheers

http://randyspics.tripod.ca/gifs/naughty.gif Randy_G

http://randyspics.tripod.ca/gifs/man_grilling_hamburgers_sm_wht.gif

[ShyTorque]

Whirly,

We all know why Welsh pilots want to recce a sheep; it's certainly not covered by a rule 5 exemption and it also begins with "S" ;) :eek:

Another way to find the wind direction: watch the direction of travel of cloud shadows across the ground.

[ATPMBA]

For confined areas I use a simple checklist listed below and there is a brief description of each item.

PWOTFEEL


P)ower – from your performance charts determine if you have enough power to hover at the intended point of landing

W)ind – determine wind direction. Do a high recon at 500 agl above the highest obstacle in the area. Circle around the landing zone, fairly tight, keep the radius equal, you will need the steepest bank downwind to hold the radius constant as your groundspeed is at the highest, least bank when you are into a headwind. Also, check for blowing smoke, ripple signs on lakes, the wind cause ripples on the downwind side of the lake.

O)bstuctions – remain 500 agl above the highest obstruction in the area as you circle. This is the high recon, look for other obstructions. Wires are hard to see so look for poles, towers as these are signs that wires are present.

T)urbulence - think about turbulence you may encounter in the area and its possible causes, buildings, treelines, etc.

F)orced Landing areas – if the engine quits know where can you put it down.

E)ntry - from the high recon circling you plan a downwind leg, base, and final. These legs can be adjusted to avoid obstacles, turbulence, lack of forced landing areas. You want a good approach into the landing area and into the wind. Know where the landing zone is, remember landmarks around it because if the terrain is uneven you may lose sight of it on final approach.

E)xit – from the high recon you would have a plan for exiting. Your exit path should avoid obstacles, be into the wind, have forced landing areas,etc.

L)anding zone - on final do a low recon, recheck for wires, poles fences, bushes. If things don’t look right or there are surprises then go-around.

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

Lots of good information here. I can only add one thing. It's a question to all of you fretting over how to determine wind direction: Which way would you land if the engine quit? Do we mean to say that helicopter pilots are flying around oblivious to the wind direction?

What kind of weather system are you under? Which way was the wind blowing at departure? Why weren't you keeping track of it? When we're flying, one of our primary jobs is to know where the wind is. And if there's enough of it to make a difference, you better know it. This is especially true if you depart someplace *knowing* that you're headed for a site landing.

Lecture mode: OFF

To Muffin: All things considered, in the site you described, I'd prefer to land with a headwind and depart with a tailwind. I do not like to land directly downwind, especially to a confined area due to the obvious worry of VRS/SWP. Yes, it can be done safely, but it is far too risky for far too long a period of time. Taking off downwind is also risky, but if you have sufficient power, the exposure can be limited if you can turn back into the wind (or at least crosswind) as soon as possible. Just remember, the only absolute is that you must not crash.

[ShyTorque]

PPRUNEFAN#1,

I take it you fly singles by your reference to "the" engine failure situation, perhaps mainly VFR at relatively low altitudes? In that case you are well advised to be constantly aware of the wind at all times and will have visual clues to help you, but be aware that there are a number of reasons why other pilots might not be as constantly aware of the precise local surface wind as you obviously are - and it doesn't make them bad people.

For example, even in UK, some aircraft transit IFR at relatively high altitudes up to 100 miles or more to a landing site involving a confined area at the destination. Pilots in this situation cannot rely on the wind on the ground being the same as as the departure point and would be stupid to do so! As a single engine failure in transit in a multi engined helicopter would not be so demanding, it's not a major priority to be constantly aware of the precise local surface wind en route. Obviously it is a requirement to keep a mental picture of the GENERAL wind direction though, in order to navigate.

It can be difficult to keep track of the precise surface wind direction by simple means when the aircraft is IMC. ATIS or ATC reports can be misleading when the nearest airfield lies some distance away from the actual destination because LOCAL effects can cause major wind direction variations. One of our regular landing sites is a confined area adjacent to the corner of a very large building. It is quite common for there to be a difference of more than 90 degrees between the surface wind directions on adjacent sides of the building...and quite different from what the nearest ATIS, nearly 20 nm away, is giving.

We always have to be ready to be surprised by the actual surface wind direction on arrival at a remote LS, hence the need for a good site recce on arrival.

BTW, Performance A / Class 1 vertical takeoff profiles often lay down crosswind limits and do NOT usually allow downwind arrival or departures so it can be a little more involved than, as you put it: "the only absolute is that you must not crash". :)

[Whirlybird]

As I think someone said earlier, wind direction can vary locally quite a lot, especially in mountainous or even hilly areas. I live in Wales; I learned that fairly early on.

Flying a circuit/orbit at around 35 kts will definitely give you the wind direction, as I discovered recently when trying to do something totally different. A local landowner wanted to put three 300 ft wind turbines on his land on a hill about a mile from my home, and I was part of the local campaign against it. "Officially" it was said that the turbines wouldn't be visible from most of the area; we thought otherwise. Someone suggested flying a balloon above the site at 300 ft, but we didn't have access to a balloon, and couldn't work out how to arrange it. The conversation which followed then went like this:
Me (waking up): I'm a helicopter pilot.
Committee member: You're a WHAT?!!!!!
2nd Committee Member: Helicopter pilot? Who's a helicopter pilot?
Me: I am.
Stunned silence.

Anyway, I offered to circle over the site of the three turbines, at 300 ft, while people positioned themselves strategically around the valley with cameras. I said I'd have to do it on a non-windy day to have any hope of keeping both my position and altitude with any accuracy, and if any people or cars appeared I'd have to leave. Amazingly, such a day dawned the following weekend, and I took off, knowing that even at 700 ft approx (300 ft above the proposed turbine site) the wind would only be around 10 kts. Well, flying exactly over that field was extraordinarily difficult; I just felt like I was being blown off it. And I knew exactly which way the wind was coming from after very few orbits. A useful lesson.

In case anyone's interested, they did get the photos, and the application was refused, though I don't think my flight actually made much difference. I had fun doing it though. :)

[TeeS]

Randy_g

Please can you explain what you mean by this bit -

"To find the wind, slow to 35-40 kts, and fly in trim (very important) by the confined area one way, then reversed. If a x-wind, your nose will point to it's direction (if you are in trim)."

If you are suggesting that the helicopter will behave like a wind-vane while flying in free air then I feel an interesting discussion coming on! :)

Cheers

TeeS

[RobboRider]

I can't see what the discussion would be about. That's how every helicopter flies (except maybe ones with conter-rotating main rotors).

:rolleyes:

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

ShyTorque:
For example, even in UK, some aircraft transit IFR at relatively high altitudes up to 100 miles or more to a landing site involving a confined area at the destination.

Pilots who fly twin-engine IFR helicopters generally are professionals who know how to gauge surface wind and don't need advice from amateurs. Conscientious IFR pilots will monitor the ATIS at nearby airports whilst in cruise to keep track of the local surface winds.

Amateurs who do need advice on determining surface wind generally won't be flying sophisticated IFR-capable, twin-engine aircraft.

Ergo...

[TeeS]

RobboRider

If Randy_g is suggesting that you fly along a track line and see which direction you have to point the nose to maintain track then I fully agree. However, what I think he is saying is that as you fly along at low speed and in balance, the tail will be blown downwind and point the nose of the aircraft into wind. If that is the case we will have to disagree!

Your helicopter (or glider, 747 etc.) has no conception of wind when it is flying because it is flying in that parcel of air that is the wind! It is only when we look out of the window at the ground that our brains get confused and tell us that the aircraft is handling differently when flying into wind or downwind. The sensation is at its greatest when at low level because when flying downwind the groundspeed is so much higher than expected. The tendency is to slow the aircraft down to make the picture fit and that is when it all goes pear shaped.

TeeS

[ShyTorque]

PPRUNE FAN #1,

Ergo we ALL need to do a proper recce including a careful wind assessment on arrival at a CA, amateur pilot or professional.

[[email protected]]

Points:

1. The Military confined area recce is Size, Shape, Surrounds, Surface, Slope in that order.

2. If you don't know the wind fly a suitable (cardinal) heading and note the drift left or right. Turn 270 degrees in the direction of drift ie if N was your first heading and you were drifting right, turn onto W. If you are now drifting left, the wind is between N and W in this example. If you are still drifting right the turn onto S and check drift again. Once you have narrowed the wind down to a 90 degree arc then split the difference and check drift again. Keep repeating until you fly on a hdg with no drift and you are into wind. This is the cloverleaf procedure and is much more longwinded than simply comparing airspeed to groundspeed.

3. Given a choice between a downwind approach and a crosswind approach I would take crosswind. Given a further choice I would take the crosswind from the left in a helo with anticlockwise rotation (when viewed from above) because you are reducing Tq with right pedal.

4. Using cloud shadow movement as a guide to wind direction is frequently misleading because the surface wind will be different in strength and direction to the wind at the cloudbase.

5. All the confined area recce techniques in the world boil down to picking the best available approach path taking into account wind, obstructions, wires, sun position etc.. Can I get in? How will I get in/out.

[Randy_g]

TeeS You are correct in your second post. If Randy_g is suggesting that you fly along a track line and see which direction you have to point the nose to maintain track then I fully agree That is what I was saying, simply put, the crab angle shows which side the wind will be blowing from. Sorry for the confusion. At the lower speeds, groundspeed differences are easier to see, and the crab angle will be greater. Didn't mean to infer that the a/c acted as a weathervane.

PpruneFan everyone should be aware of where the wind is during cruise, but winds at the surface can vary significantly from wind found at cruise altitudes. To anyone not sure how the wind reacts with obstacles, watch a stream pass by rocks, etc. That is a good way to visualise how the wind reacts.

I've seen wind on a lake come from either end at the same time, due to a small hill. Example; wind from the west, some goes around to the north, some to the south, some over the top, wind curves around hill and now comes from north, south, and west. Makes for an interesting approach.

Cheers

http://randyspics.tripod.ca/gifs/naughty.gif Randy_G

http://randyspics.tripod.ca/gifs/man_grilling_hamburgers_sm_wht.gif

[B Sousa]

You folks in the UK are too technical for me. Here in the states while flying We use the P factor. That is if on a long cross country We have to find a place to P. Our rules are pretty simple, if your safe and not trespassing, go for it.........
Reverting to lesson one is that you should know how to fly in the first place......

[The Nr Fairy]

I missed out, on purpose, the most interesting bit.

As a pre-cursor, on downwind to the area my instructor switched off the landing light "to make us less conspicuous" - I asked if that was a bit pointless seeing as we're a noisy helicopter !

Anyhow we got in, got out, and on Monday I got a phone call. "We've had a complaint . . ." - someone said they'd seen us land, and the noise had made a horse bolt and injure itself. We're waiting for the outcome, but we both know we didn't land even if we did come down very low before pulling vertical on the way out. Such is life !

[Tail Bloater]

Just a thought.

The military have many 'Low Flying Areas' used by helicopter crews to practice off airfield confined areas.

Can we use these areas?

[rightpedalRIGHTPEDAL]

Coupla more S's ShyT

Sun - when its low and can affect your vision.

Snow - is it hard packed, potential for white out?

[ShyTorque]

rpRP,

I can understand Sun, BUT - SNOW!

Which part of the Caribbean are you in? :confused: :D

(It is allowed for in "Surface" anyway) :)

[[email protected]]

TB - nope! We are not limited by the 500' rule and most flying stations have local agreements with the landowners to use these areas - I believe on occasion money changes hands but don't quote me.
If you were to come to a private agreement with such a landowner it would be common sense to notify your CA practise by CANP or by phoning Ops at the local base just so you don't find yourself head to head with a Chinook.

[bladeslapper]

Crab

RAF Shawbury is one such Helicopter Training Establishment with in excess of 100 civilian owned confined area and landing sites available for its use as part of the tri services training program.

To the best of my knowledge NO MONEY changes hands in exchange for that use. The landowners are a very pro 'Her Majesties Forces' section of the community and often take grief from their neighbours because of their support of helicopter training activities.

Without these areas, the level of training could be seriously affected (as discovered during Foot & Mouth outbreak). Please do not infer we would only support our armed services in exchange for money. !.....................However, for a day at the Base and a fly round, I'll go find some more willing landowners. :D

[muffin]

I can confirm that no money changes hands. DHFS Shawbury use my field behind the house for landing practice about once per week. The payback is a day out there once a year with a chance to fly one of their Squirrels plus a tour and a very nice lunch.

My neighbours love it, as all the kids and most of the adults come out to wave if they are around. The only time they don't use it is if there are horses in the field while they are on approach, although the horses actually ignore them completely.

[[email protected]]

Bladeslapper - I know, I've been in most of them. The jocular aside about money changing hands obviously hit a nerve!!!

No we don't pay you for the CAs, instead we use taxpayers money inviting you to a p*ss-up and a fly round in a Squirrel!

[HeliStudent]

Guy Lifts EC-135 Helicopter Out Of Parking Lot - YouTube

[Agaricus bisporus]

The RAF/RN guide for height assessment when low flying;

At 500ft you can see the legs of cattle but not sheep.
At 250ft the legs of sheep can be seen.

[Arm out the window]

Quite useful for the RN, I'd imagine, what with all those aquatic cattle and sheep!

[heli1]

In my experience flying over water you can see the legs of sheep and cattle at 1000ft,mainly because they're floating upside down