Cessna Caravan

[Desperate for a job]

What do you think about spending £5000 on a class rating for this aircraft? A turbo prop it may be but single engine? Is this the best way to spend a small fortune, I think Air Med are running a course for them. Any views? I for one am not interested, stand me corrected?

[AMEX]

The problems with the Caravan are: (The 208 not the 406)

- No one operates it commercially in the UK.

-It is a single Engine so when you fill an application form that doesn't help much apart from a TT point of view.

-Many Human Resoures Dept. haven't got a clue of what is a C208 so they see it as a Cessna (read 152) and nothing else. Frustrating because so much better than those antic twin pistons we fly. Because they are quite recent they usually get a much better avionic package with can bring a very useful practice at that kind "more" advanced systems when compared once again with older light twins.

Talking from experience (here in the UK), at the end of the day twin time can make a real difference, at least until the Caravan gets the wide spread reputation it deserves here in Europe (because it has alread been established worldwide what kind of machine we really have to deal with).
I must say until last year, most of my time was on singles (with 150 hours twin) but including a fair amount of Turbine time command (not that it is big deal mind you. Never understood why some people are so hot about it ???).
But I suffered from the single engine syndrom and trying to explain people (those who hire/fire) was quite frustrating so after a while on the type and despite holding a proper FlightSafety rating (paid by my employer;)), I decided to refuse to work on the 208 simply to concentrate on building my twin time.

Since then I have flown both twin pistons and turbines but when I state on my CV the experience I have (my TT, Turbine time, Twin time, Single time), it is funny to see that people assume that most my twin time is turbine.
Don't care if is true or not but getting a twin job has helped me to "validate" the turbine time acquired in a single.

It is a bit like everyting until you get your career really going, in a company with real prospects that is.
Indeed, a little bit of bush flying is Ok, too much and the airlines walk away.
A little bit of Single is ok but too much and the airlines walk away.
A little bit of instructing, towing, para dropping, crop sparying, etc.... is ok but too much and the airlines walk away.

Of course I don't see anything wrong in having a career in any of the type of flying mentioned above but since most tend to aim at an airline career, this can become very relevant.

Just a last point before I go. As much as I love the Caravan, wannabes!! don't just go and get a 208 rating simply because it is "only" £5000 and can be done in less than a week without having to live the country. The reality as it stands is that there is NO market (of significant importance anyway) for 208 drivers in Europe.

Wait until the rules effectively changes then have a good look at the industry and only then, make up your mind.

[Freak On A Leash]

RIPOFF!!!!
You`ve gotta be almost out of your mind to pay £5000 for a Caravan rating. Let alone if there aren`t any Caravan operators within the validity of your license (countries, that is). You could actually get an 737 rating (the older series) for the same price in the US - provided you have FAA certificates and go through the screening process... But that`s just to put it into perspective.

AMEX, you are correct, but when the majority of you TT is piston single engine, then turbine single engine is a step up the ladder. I personally value turbine single engine time equal to twin piston time (subject to change), but when it comes to the interviews twin time is worth more.

[kwaiyai]

A mate of mine told me he was quoted around £5250 + VAT, Rather more than 5000. Having done it though what is the likelyhood of being asked for time on type. I saw a job advertised on one albeit seaplane one, min req 3000 seaplane, 1000 rough sea ops, 25 on C208.
Regards.

[faacfi]

to pay 5000 british pounds for a C208 type rating is scandalous.
I did mine paid by the company.the cost was around 3500$ and I jumped on the left seat after 1 week of line training.
it would better to wait that the JAA let single engine planes fly in our european sky before to invest 5000 pound in a type rating.
Fly a turboprop is a very enjoyable experience, particulary when you do not have to pay yourself.

[togabutton]

I echo the others on this thread. You are being ripped off! I have done 1200 hours on caravans. I still fly one in the USA - lovely aeroplane by the way. I paid US$7300 for a Boeing 737 rating here in the USA and consider that better value for money.

The van is a lovely instrument platform, a delight to fly and has an impressive avionics package, BUT it is still a single. I found it a nice introduction to turbines and a great intermediate step to something like a King Air 200 or Beech 1900. If your heart is set on flying a van I would seriously investigate going to South Africa (my original home) and doing the rating there. I don't have the current cost handy, but I can assure you that it would be around a third of the cost you were quoted. There are a number of operators in SA and the instruction is of a high calibre. Don't get ripped off!

[Turbine1]

I am going to bring this back to the top, to put my two penny’s worth as I believe this is an important thread.

My old company operated a Caravan in the UK, so I can speak with some experience regarding this matter.

When I first got the job I was sent to the US, to Flight Safety to gain the type rating for the Caravan, A weeks course combined ground school in the morning with 5 sim secessions in the afternoon, 5 days later finished the course and on my way home with the FAA Certificate in the flight bag.

During my time with the company I had been bonded for the training which was at the time was set at 6000 pounds, when not flying I spent time in the office doing the paper work associated with the job, this company was very small and the flight department consisted of one, me.
During this lull in flying and to keep up with the mountain of paper work I spent many hours in the office, more hours than I logged.
I came across the invoices for the Flight Safety course; it was in nowhere near 5000 pounds or 5000 dollars for that matter. Now this was three years ago but inflation hasn’t gone that much, if memory serves me right it was around the 3000 dollar mark.
Now this was a Flight Safety course very good ground school and excellent day full motion simulators, and I may add had excellent instruction by ex or serving pilots with Fedex and associated carriers.

I would look very closely at this offer collecting as much information regarding the training given by the organisation involved.

5000 is far to much in this day an age, my bond for my current job was 12000 pounds for the 757, now that’s valve for money.

Listen to what Amex has said wait until the Caravan is operational in the UK and you will find that there will be company’s falling over themselves to start to operate this lovely aircraft. With the right training and cost’s involved.


;)

[crack up]

Turbine 1:
What kind of FAA certificate associated with a 208 did you recieve from FSI?
2 FSI initial courses are included with the purchase/lease of a new 208.
The retail cost of a FSI initial 208 course is around $6500USD.

[faacfi]

as there is no type rating for a plane of less 12'000 pounds (except for jet)under the FAA , I have a received a Part 135 certificate after my training.
Flight safety, must give same certificate.

[AMEX]

As I was trying to work out how much my company had paid for my 208 endorsment, I asked around on my course and guys told me they had paid around $3500 US (All professionally flying the 208 or about to).
Like Turbine1 it didn't include any flight test as I had a UK licence so there was no point in getting it on my FAA ticket.

Once back in the UK all needed was:

-A flight test with a CAA CRE/CRI (done on our A/C)
- FSI Training records to be presented to the CAA
- A Cheque

Very glad I did a FSI course though as there is no way any in house training would have covered a tenth of the emergencies (How do you simulate a hot start, windshear, Icing on an A/C with engine off and seating on the ground ?)

[Sheep Guts]

Ok maybe in Australia you could get one for around $3-5000aud, thats alot cheaper than 5000quid which is about $14,000 aud , but wether its worth anything on a UK ticket is another question. I think you can get a Shorts 330 rating for around 8000quid talk to Redsnail. And thats above 12,500lbs

[Cardinal Puff]

Togabutton

You're right about South Africa being cheaper. You could pick up a rating for around £1000-00 and a lot of companies use them there. If you can get into Solenta, Rossair, King Air Services, Balmoral, Federal Air you'll build time pretty quickly too. Best might be Solenta as they take low timers. You'll not earn much but if you can hold out and take their BS for six months you should have a couple of hundred turbine hours under your belt when you leave and that always counts for something. Once in a company down South there's nothing stopping you getting rated (and bonded) on DHC6, BE 1900, 200, ATR 42 or whatever else they operate. Try to get into Rossair, Solenta, KAS or Balmoral as they operate mainly externally and no work permits are required.

Contact me [email protected] for more info and the relevant 'phone numbers.

[tabdy]

I suggest your money would be better spent doing a Flight Safety course and then getting the actual rating with the hiring company.

The C208 is not an overgrown C172 and it will bite if you don't treat it respectfully. It is a first class machine and a joy to fly in a hard working environment. I have been flying one for the last 6yrs in Africa in support of the "Aid" industry which meant almost all my flying was short sectors into unprepared and rough airstrips in the bush.

I am concerned by stories that once the C208 is legalised in Europe it will be crewed by inexperienced youngsters. If that happens I think we must expect a rash of accidents which will sadly bring the aircraft into disrepute. Although single engine, it should be treated with the respect which would be given to a KA200 etc...

Best of luck.

[AMEX]

Think Pip Pip is rather optimistic (a good thing in my books) but then again he sells or seem to be associated with an operator selling C208 Class Ratings (or is it hoping to ?).
So when he tells that such a course is "not bad investment" is hardly surprising;)
Spring will be here soon so hopefully i will be proved wrong but until then keep your money or send it to my attention. I have a lots of ideas for great investments :D

[African Drunk]

Cardinal Puff

Agree about SA only problem you need a SA licence to add the rating as they will not allow you to bolt anything on to your validation. Vicky at FTC is possibly able to do the JAR rating but agree with all above only 3 or 4 vans operating in UK and air meds only do type ratings.