Two pilots log same hour

[High'n'Dry]

American flying school are advertising that two pilots can log the same hour in a multi engine aircraft. They say that one pilot must fly IFR while the other acts as a safety pilot but both log the hour as pic. It says this is approved by the FAA if so should mean that the hour is valid in Jaa member states????????? If true this cuts multi time down to the same price p.h. as a single

[Tor]

But what's the training value of those hour?

[Noggin]

You certainly cannot claim any such hours towards a JAA licence. Its hardly surprising that the JAA won't count FAA IFR time if this is an example of it.

[gimpboy]

When I was in Florida I saw loads of British and other nationalities flying twins together to save money.

I think, and don't quote me on this, that the way it worked was one guy logged P1 and the other guy P2.

Mind you they could have been fooled by the school - it was a seriously dodgy outfit??

[ronchonner]

well, i t a question of insurance.
i saw some guys loging both in a single engine plane while flying VFR because the insurance asked that 2 pilots are responsible for the flight.Knowing that, the FAA in 1997 have changed some rules and asked that only the guy having physically the control of the aircraft is PIC unless the guy in the right sit is cfi and can log PIC under instruction, and pic for the cfi.
then, you have the constructor who decide if it a single pilot plane or not...
the problem is between http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gifilot,fabricants,FAA (rules 91/135/121...),insurance companies...
anyway,the goal of the JAA is to not to recognise your hours, thus they can send you in a school(once again) to suck your EU dollars!
complicated?yes, it is!

[Tor]

I don't think is for insurance reason. It's so called "FAA training" flights where on pliot flies with an IFR hood and the other is a safety pilot.

I'm pretty sure, since I was offered to fly as safety pilot a while ago, but declined as I had to pay for it.

[foghorn]

ronchonner,

get a life. You have taken the award for the most piss-poor poster on Wannabes and are well in the lead.

The JAA rules are simple. If you are flying a single pilot aircraft only one person can log PIC. Makes sense really (there are some very limited exceptions to this involving Flight Examiners).

You can only log P2 in an aircraft that needs two crew. Again, makes sense.

[AffirmBrest]

Easy tiger! And anyone else noticed that we can say 'piss' now, instead of having to use 1's and 5's..? :)

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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...

[Hot&Heavy]

Foghorn,

don't u sispect that rumchurner is a wind-up murchent who spelling gramma and:-; punchuation is dellibberate to mak us al get peeeved at him?

Wen they remak Faulty Towers we kan nomminate him for the part of Manuel.

"Sorry about ronchunder, he's from Barcelona."

[Swedish pilot]

Found an answer in another forum (www.studentpilot.net).
I don't know if it is right or wrong.

"A call to the FSDO may provide more confusion than answers, because the FSDO does not have the perrogative of interpreting the regulations. Personal prejudices or opinions will abound, and you'll likely get differing opinions among inspectors at the same FSDO or different FSDO's.
There are conditions which must be met for both pilots to log the flight as PIC. If the pilot manipulating the controls and wearing the view limiting device is the acting pilot in command, then only he or she may log PIC; the other pilot is a second in command only. If the pilot acting as safety pilot is the acting pilot in command, then both may log the time, provided the pilot wearing the view limiting device is the sole manipulator of the controls. This is because the safety pilot is a required crew member and is acting as PIC, and the logging of this time is allowed for the safety pilot under FAR 61.51(e)(1)(iii).

If the flight is conducted under instrument flight rules, the acting PIC must have an instrument rating. If the safety pilot does not have an instrument rating but the hooded pilot does, then the hooded pilot must be the pilot in command, and the safety pilot may only log the flight as SIC. If both pilots are instrument rated, it's up to the pilots to determine who will be responsible for the safety of the flight. If that responsibility falls on the safety pilot to be the acting pilot in command, he or she may log the flight as PIC.

If the safety pilot is acting as PIC, but not manipulating the controls, it's still loggable as PIC. However, if the flight enters instrument meteorological conditions, the safety pilot is no longer a required crew member, and can log neither PIC, nor SIC. The fact that he or she is acting as pilot in command means nothing for the purposes of logging time at this point; the pilot manipulating the controls will log the time, assuming they are certificated and rated with category, class, and type, if required.

In this particular scenario, if the pilot manipulating the controls is not rated in the airplane, neither pilot may log the time."

[foghorn]

H&H,

He's been tackled about being a wind-up merchant on another thread and hasn't stopped yet. If one is going to troll under assumed names, at least back down gracefully when people realise what is going on. Trolling can be a bit of laugh when done properly, but ronchonner is just getting tedious now :mad: Hence my award.

AB - great, innit?

[This message has been edited by foghorn (edited 21 March 2001).]