View Full Version : Ansett administration could take years

14th Nov 2002, 10:35

Ansett administration could take years

It might be another couple of years before the administration of collapsed airline Ansett was wrapped up, administrator Mark Korda said today.

Mr Korda told the Finance and Treasury Association (FTA) that administrators had sold $630 million of Ansett assets.

"We've got about $300 million of (Ansett) assets still to sell which includes 43 planes and about 10 million spare parts," he told AAP.

"The next couple of years it will take us to wrap it up.

"And the ultimate return will depend on the state of the global aviation market."

Mr Korda said administrators were aiming to return to Ansett employees 92 cents in every dollar of the entitlements that they were owed, in the long term.

Mr Korda said administrators had so far paid out $380 million in employee entitlements, or about 50 per cent.

He said that as soon as a superannuation court case involving more than $200 million was resolved, administrators would make payments on a $330 million federal government loan to cover statutory workers' entitlements.

Mr Korda said he expected the federal government would make a decision on the future of the $10 Ansett ticket levy when the result of the $200 million superannuation case was known.

The market for the remaining Ansett aircraft was "very difficult" at the moment, but a deal might be done with the spare parts over the next month or two.

Administrators also had $60-$70 million of property, debtors and legal actions to collect.

Mr Korda told the FTA that Ansett had had huge problems, including its mixed fleet of planes and working with the unions.

He said baggage handlers had had great commercial clout.

"If they stop work, you don't get your baggage," Mr Korda said.

"The average baggage handler at Ansett was on $95,000."

©AAP 2002

14th Nov 2002, 19:10
Optimistic? :(

15th Nov 2002, 02:59
"The average baggage handler at Ansett was on $95000 pa"

If that is a substantiated quote from Mark Korda I am now starting to get really worried about his grasp of figures and what the real world is about.
Urban legends are created when people like him make these comments, and maybe he can be excused because possibly a "mate of a mate of his" told him that is what we were earning.
I knew every "average Ansett baggage handler" at SYD Domestic, and I can guarantee that we on around $50000 pa.
Some that had no home to go to and lived in the muster room on Bay 36, made maybe $65000.
I know that these seem ridiculous amounts of money to pay a person for just throwing bags, but we did have to work 8 days straight before getting a break and some of us were actually entrusted to load aircraft safely and to legal standards. The bosses even trusted us to pushback aircraft worth $$$millions.
In all honesty we also had people who wouldn't work in an iron lung, but from experience I can say, no more than any other large company e.g Qantas, Telstra, RTA etc etc.

Buster Hyman
15th Nov 2002, 10:34
I have to agree Rampdog.

For those of you who knew "chook", a CSO at Tulla, he used to get somewhere near the quoted figure BUT , he used to work overtime like it was going out of fashion. Double shifts, no days off etc. The only Ramp guys that could earn that in a year, would have to have lived there!

Now, if we were all administrators.....:mad:

Kaptin M
15th Nov 2002, 11:31
"Administrators also had $60-$70 million of property, debtors and legal actions to collect."
Give or take $10 MILLION!! :eek:

Unfortunately, Buster the BEST opportunity you guys had was when you were united - but then you threw that suggestion back in my face, with the quip of something along the lines of, "What should we all do - resign (from the ACTU)??!!"
Believe it or not, there WAS strength in numbers..esp. when the ACTU was in desperate need of your (collective) support.

To tell you the honest truth, you are NOW (as the administrators and the ACTU knew you WOULD be) too disjointed. You will have to take it "as it comes".
Unless - again, IMHO - as a group of you take a "Class action" to expedite matters.
Individually it could cost you , unless you can rally enough (financial) support!

Otherwise, don't complain. The "M&M's" have relied upon the old adage that, "[b]Australians are apathetic - but WHO really cares!!"

Buster Hyman
15th Nov 2002, 14:42
Got those angry pills out again eh Kaptin?

Nice touch though, quoting me out of context! Keep up the good work!:rolleyes:

Kaptin M
15th Nov 2002, 21:35
Quoting you out of context, Buster? NEVER.
Here's a little memory jogger for you:-

Buster Hyman
Over 500 posts. I really must consider clicking here so I can order a Personal Title.
(posted 7th February 2002 19:25)

Kaptin. Are you saying we should all resign en-masse from the unions? Do you think it'd work??? :rolleyes: :D :D :D :D

It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

Kaptin M
Moderate, Modest & Mild.

(posted 8th February 2002 08:54)

Kaptin. Are you saying we should all resign en-masse from the unions?(Buster Hyman Esq.)

Let's look at some relevant details, Buster:
i)The majority of the ex-Ansett employees are waiting for long overdue payments of their ENTITLEMENTS;
ii)The ACTU purport to be representing these employees wrt obtaining their entitlements;
iii)The Government & Air New Zealand have paid several hundreds of millions of $$$'s to Ansett (the administrators?) for the purpose of (partly) paying staff - yet to the best of my knowledge this money has nor been disbursed;
iv)The administrators have indicated that they will request to continue trading insolvently until the deal with TESNA is consumated - or collapses;
v)The ACTU has an apparent desire to see TESNA acquire ownership of Ansett, and as such (the ACTU) is able to effectively veto other creditors (such as Westpac and Diners) BECAUSE they represent the largest $$$ value of secured creditors - the ex-Ansett staff.

Ansett staff want their money - the ACTU NEEDS the Ansett staff - esp. those who have NOT resigned.
This is surely a strong bargaining chip for all of you to collectively use to gain at least further PART PAYMENT NOW, under the threat of placing your representation under another charges responsibility.

It's YOUR money that the ACTU are using to play this game - at no risk to themselves!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

Angry pills?? Could be the ones who are reading it are the angry ants.
I type with a smile. :)

16th Nov 2002, 04:07
A coupla more years to wrap up Ansett??

With the two Marks charging hundreds per hour for a football team of Administrators - the remaining asset value will be eaten up real quick. Ay carumba :eek:

The Finance & Treasury Assiciation; Is that a industry chamber or legal entity monitoring the wind-up?.

If it was a legal meeting, was there any staff representation??

I really hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look good for the employees.

The two Marks may turn out to be more guilty of 'crimes against Ansett' than the board of Air NZ.

16th Nov 2002, 08:29
.......and M.R. is still pulling in his $400k a year, keeping current doing more than the required lap in the Airbus. SHAVE still gets paid while he completes his 767 endorsement, courtesy of the unpaid AN pilots.

........ so say one of the two 'Marks' after being warmed up.

Those who caused the mess, walk with the most!!

Go figure.

16th Nov 2002, 17:53
:eek: And E.P, surely you are not surprised by this???????????????

luna landing
17th Nov 2002, 00:59
Made me want to cry


Only the bad guys win - so be very bad. :)

Buster Hyman
17th Nov 2002, 06:46
Dear oh dear Kaptin.

I see the term "quoted out of context" is lost on you. Oh, but thanks for including the smilies, others, unlike you might be able to see where I was going with this.

But, if you were ever in AN, youŽd know that we were always apathetic to industrial action (at lest where I was working). Most people donŽt give a toss about the Unions.

Perhaps the difference between us was that you followed yours to your own destruction, whereas we were already destroyed and they are still dragging our carcass around!:rolleyes:

17th Nov 2002, 08:26
Yes, who monitors the two Marks?
Being an ex Ansett employee and still unemployed, I have no confidence in the two Marks at all, I don't know why people praise them. They just walked in off the street and tried running a fantasy airline. It should not have been allowed and so far has cost a fortune from entitlements. Between the Government and the two Marks, they are going to be the only rich winners at the expense of the employee's. It is now said that the two Marks are going to stretch this out for as long as possible, maybe years, as administrators seem to do, until they have used up every last dollar, which means the employee's will never see their full entitlements at all. Well, wouldn't you at $359 an hour.It's also been reported that their fees now total over $32.5m, this is just so wrong. It's also been reported that the two Marks often have 2 to 3 hour lanch breaks as well, gosh they must be laughing all the way to the bank like that pommy, grinning clown at VB.With no representation anymore, the two Marks can dictate anything now and I believe they have a heap of money stashed away to fight any court cases. I just wish this could get over and done with quickly so we can all move forward

Kaptin M
17th Nov 2002, 14:10
The frustrating part, is seeing all of this blatantly going on, but apparently being unable to do anything - like sitting in a canoe without a rudder, and being carried along toward a waterfall!!

Have only just now (whilst writing this post) read your EDITED reply, Buster. I must admit that I SINCERELY feel for all but about 200 of the 16,000 odd ex-AN staff - a HELLUVA number, but who seem to be wandering around aimlessly.ed by the nose by 2 accountants who are making themselves fantastically wealthy on YOUR entitlements!
And by the way, the smilies shown are EXACTLY as YOU posted in your original post, Buster. :)
Feel free to check,

Although quite vocal here on PPRuNe, your apparent INactivity is getting you absolutely nowhere! What is the point in expressing and canvassing opinions if you don't FOLLOW UP!!??
Unfortunately you (the Ansett employees) are now splintered - the best scenario that the M&M's could have wished for, knowing that no INDIVIDUAL would have the willpower or the resources (alone) to rein them in.

It's probably true,It's also been reported that the two Marks often have 2 to 3 hour lanch sic breaks
So what? And almost certainly they're charging them out at " $359 an hour" - PLUS they're probably also claiming the meals as a tax deduction.
But who's going to do anything about it??!!

My honest guess is (that) ex-Ansett employees will be LUCKY if they see 60 cents in the dollar of what they're owed.......in about 1 1/2 to 2 years.

The biggest difference between the AFAP (the Federation) and other unions, is that its branches and Executive are made up of democratically elected MEMBERS, ie. pilots, all of whom do it on a voluntary basis!
Sui Generis :)

crocodile redundee
18th Nov 2002, 09:23
The sad fact is that Ansett NEVER recovered from 1989!!!!!
All the employees were on borrowed time from then on. Anyone who didnt realise that was kidding themselves.
The smart people moved on , the remainder hung in hoping for a miracle that never happened.
Now we all know who caused the 1989 event dont we- none other than Mr Robert Hawke.
Maybe a class action against him might yeild a quicker monetary result to all debtors.......:( :(

Buster Hyman
20th Nov 2002, 02:59
Ah Kaptin, oh for the written word to capture the true intention of what one is conveying!

The context I meant, was the context of the entire topic. Unfortunately, I think that one, from memory, degenerated quite rapidly, never mind.

Yes, they were the original smilies, exactly as I intended them, but I don't know which edit you are referring to?

At the end of the day, as you say, 16000 people have been shafted, and it does go all the way back to RJH. This is a tragedy in any industry, let alone ours.

As someone mentioned, the two M's have built themselves a nice warchest and have settled in nicely, so, as you say, the opportunity is lost...Apathy 1 : Solidarity 0 :(