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airsupport
11th Nov 2002, 09:24
Dow Jones Business News

Virgin Blue Kicks Off International Expansion Plan, Seeks Interest

Monday November 11, 3:31 am ET


SYDNEY -(Dow Jones)- Australia's second-biggest airline, Virgin Blue, kicked off its international expansion plan Monday, seeking new travel destinations within the Asia-Pacific region.

The no-frills carrier is mailing out tender documents to a number of organizations and countries to find out whether they are interested in Virgin Blue's services.

Virgin Blue will send the documents to all Australian state tourism offices and cities with international airports, all New Zealand regions with international airports, the Australian Tourist Commission and the New Zealand Tourism Board.

It will also send the documents to: the Cook Islands, East Timor, Federated States of Micronesia, Fiji, Guam, Indonesia, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Niue, Northern Marianas Islands, Nouvelle Caledonie, Palau, Papua New Guinea, American Samoa, Western Samoa, Solomon Islands, Tahiti-French Polynesia, Tonga, Tuvalu, Vanuatu, Wallis and Futuna Islands.

All interested parties must respond by Nov. 30.

The international expansion move comes less than a week after Virgin Blue ended its long-running dispute with Sydney Airport over terminal access.

However, it was vague about the launch date of its international flights in its tender documents.

"In the coming years Virgin Blue will be considering destinations based on a 737-700/800 extended-range operation.

"They will be introduced in different phases, and we will not be actively considering destinations beyond 737 range (approximately five flying hours) from a suitable Australian or New Zealand international airport until a later phase in our development," said Virgin Blue.

Last week U.K. businessman Richard Branson told reporters in Sydney the airline may launch international flights from Australia by June 2003.

Virgin Blue, which is jointly owned by Branson and Australian transport group Patrick Corp. , is also evaluating other destinations in Southeast Asia. But a full review of flight capabilities hasn't been completed for destinations beyond Indonesia, it said.

"Still we welcome submissions from any Southeast Asian nation, airport, operator or vendor and they will be catalogued if we cannot consider them until we look at later expansion phases that would include longer-range aircraft," Virgin Blue said in its tender documents.

It plans to operate 46 planes by 2005.

Wirraway
11th Nov 2002, 12:59
It will also send the documents to: the Cook Islands, East Timor, Federated States of Micronesia, Fiji, Guam, Indonesia, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Niue, Northern Marianas Islands, Nouvelle Caledonie, Palau, Papua New Guinea, American Samoa, Western Samoa, Solomon Islands, Tahiti-French Polynesia, Tonga, Tuvalu, Vanuatu, Wallis and Futuna Islands.


My guess for the 6 popular possible new routes from above if they
will accept/pay Virgin Blue would be:

Cook Islands
Fiji
Palau
Bali
Vanuatu
Tonga

Wirraway

huntsman
11th Nov 2002, 19:08
don't know about the others but wouldn't the Cooks be a stretch for time/distance?

Wirraway
11th Nov 2002, 20:38
Huntsman

In the top post it says from any suitable international airport
in Australia and NZ.

Wirraway

hairy
12th Nov 2002, 09:53
I would have thought there might be a gap in the Cooks market with the demise of Canada 3000. Air Pacific tried the Cooks for a while back in 2000 through Nadi. Never got a chance to get going though as the military coup trashed those plans.

Heard that Aloha were starting a service from Honolulu to Raro in the near future if not already.

Buster Hyman
12th Nov 2002, 10:50
Still we welcome submissions from any Southeast Asian nation, airport, operator or vendor and they will be catalogued if we cannot consider them until we look at later expansion phases that would include longer-range aircraft.

Who the ***** do they think they are???:eek: :eek:

We are soooo lucky to have them here in Oz, now some cash strapped Pacific nation will have the honour of buying the DJ PRO brand too!!! :rolleyes: What a hide!

Rich-Fine-Green
12th Nov 2002, 11:22
Buster;

Just pondering over the list of 'Great Aviation Decisions of South-East Asian & Pacific Nations'. Took me about 3 nanoseconds.

Some poor cash strapped nation will indeed once again buy the 'Sydney Harbour Bridge' (as well as 10,000 mobile phones & a few LD3s of Virgin Cola).

BTW; Any truth in Royal Tongan leasing a 757? :eek: Didn't they have enough trouble paying for a 737?

Kaptin M
12th Nov 2002, 23:01
Gotta admit I didn't read it that way..."We are soooo lucky to have them here in Oz, now some cash strapped Pacific nation will have the honour of buying the DJ PRO brand too!!!, Buster, but more as Rich-Fine-Green has, where some " poor cash strapped nation" that can't afford a "National Airline" on their own will see an opportunity through Branson to start their own flag carrier, and similarly Sir Richard will see a chance to (wet) lease aircraft to those countries - possibly with the flag of one on one side, and that of another on the opposite side! :eek:
It's been done before. (Remember the Singapore Airlines Concorde!!).

Buster Hyman
13th Nov 2002, 01:34
Point taken & conceded Kaptin, but they did include, in the article, countries like Indonesia, Fiji, Vanuatu etc. They do have national carriers, admittedly, not the financial rocks that their countries would hope I suppose.

The impression I got from the article, was like; "Hey, we're Virgin Blue & at the right price, we may just fly to your country, you lucky sods!". Okay, okay, I'm not exactly neutral to them, but it's incredulous to think that any business can go to nations with that attitude! For what it's worth, it'll probably work for them!:rolleyes:

Sorry, missed the last bit.

I do remember the SQ Concord (no e). I also remember the CO/GA DC-10 & how the punters would refuse to get on, thinking it was a GA aircraft!!!

Ahhh, the good ol' days!!!:(

1A_Please
13th Nov 2002, 05:33
DJ will be happy to commence operations to any Pacific "paradise" for as long as the government subsidy stays in force.

After that they'll probably operate to Bali, Fiji and maybe Cook Islands though I don't know if this route would stretch the 73G and have to be via AKL which would be OK as the NZ service should have started by then and the only competition on the route (NZ) also requires a plane change in AKL.

balance
13th Nov 2002, 08:43
That clown Banson stated recently when this was announced that he wanted to fly to Bali, specifically to help restore the Balinese tourism economy, especially in their time of need.

Give me a break, Dicky! Where were your aerpolanes when the bombing occurred? QF managed to give away a great deal during this difficult time, and I don't believe they made any profit flying to Bali then.

Branson is about as interested in the Balinese as I am in Osama's welfare. This sort of cheap publicity capture is disgusting and immoral. And it is standard practice for Branson and VB.

Just goes to show how stupid Branson and Godfrey really believe the average Aussie punter is.

Icarus2001
13th Nov 2002, 09:05
Balance...

Give me a break, Dicky! Where were your aerpolanes when the bombing occurred?

Operating Australian domestic routes as per their AOC. What exactly is your point?


That clown Banson

If he is a clown, why? Because he is mega rich and brash? We just love to pull down eh guys?

HGW
13th Nov 2002, 09:46
Balance

Apparently, there are millions of stupid people out there and they all fly VB.

What is wrong with receiving incentives for flying into a port and especially if there is no or limited service to that port.

Airlines aren,t charities. Most would think it is good business practice. Believe me, other airlines receive incentives in many forms.

You seem to have a grudge against Branson and Godfrey.

Aussiebert
13th Nov 2002, 12:13
how many regional routes have incentives just to keep them running? many.

If the increase in money coming into a small country is less then the money going out to get DJ there, then what is the problem, its win win

Buster Hyman
13th Nov 2002, 12:24
....It's like Homer in chocolate land here sometimes!:rolleyes:

Last person I heard say something was a "win-win" scenario was Little Lachlan! :mad: If Branson & his faithfull start saying it...watch out!

Wirraway
13th Nov 2002, 20:34
Huntsman

Sorry with the delay on your question with range from the
mainland to Raratonga, Cook Is's, using the great circle mapper
it looks like right on 6 hours from BNE, so I imagine if VB went
it would be via AKL, the same as for Micronesia they would go
via CNS or DRW. Below will give you some examples:

NOU= Noumea
DPS= Bali
NAN= Nandi, Fiji
TBU= Tonga
RAR= Raratonga, Cook Is
PPT= Papeete, Tahiti
ROR= Koror, palau, Micronesia
GUM= Guam, Micronesia

From To Distance Time
BNE (2723'S 15307'E) NOU (2201'S 16613'E) 783 nm 1:49
SYD (3357'S 15111'E) NOU (2201'S 16613'E) 1069 nm 2:28
MEL (3740'S 14450'E) NOU (2201'S 16613'E) 1450 nm 3:21
BNE (2723'S 15307'E) DPS (0845'S 11510'E) 2424 nm 5:37
SYD (3357'S 15111'E) DPS (0845'S 11510'E) 2494 nm 5:47
MEL (3740'S 14450'E) DPS (0845'S 11510'E) 2362 nm 5:28
BNE (2723'S 15307'E) NAN (1745'S 17727'E) 1464 nm 3:23
SYD (3357'S 15111'E) NAN (1745'S 17727'E) 1711 nm 3:58
MEL (3740'S 14450'E) NAN (1745'S 17727'E) 2088 nm 4:50
BNE (2723'S 15307'E) TBU (2108'S 17505'W) 1777 nm 4:07
SYD (3357'S 15111'E) TBU (2108'S 17505'W) 1944 nm 4:30
MEL (3740'S 14450'E) TBU (2108'S 17505'W) 2299 nm 5:19
BNE (2723'S 15307'E) AKL (3701'S 17447'E) 1240 nm 2:52
SYD (3357'S 15111'E) AKL (3701'S 17447'E) 1167 nm 2:42
MEL (3740'S 14450'E) AKL (3701'S 17447'E) 1427 nm 3:18
BNE (2723'S 15307'E) RAR (2112'S 15948'W) 2592 nm 6:00
AKL (3701'S 17447'E) RAR (2112'S 15948'W) 1628 nm 3:46
AKL (3701'S 17447'E) PPT (1733'S 14936'W) 2212 nm 5:07
BNE (2723'S 15307'E) DRW (1225'S 13053'E) 1538 nm 3:34
SYD (3357'S 15111'E) DRW (1225'S 13053'E) 1700 nm 3:56
MEL (3740'S 14450'E) DRW (1225'S 13053'E) 1686 nm 3:54
DRW (1225'S 13053'E) ROR (0722'N 13420'E) 1199 nm 2:47
DRW (1225'S 13053'E) GUM (1329'N 14448'E) 1754 nm 4:04
CNS (1653'S 14545'E) ROR (0722'N 13420'E) 1599 nm 3:42
CNS (1653'S 14545'E) GUM (1329'N 14448'E) 1813 nm 4:12

Source: Great Circle Mapper (can be read better with link below)

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=bne-nou%2Csyd-nou%2Cmel-nou%2Cbne-dps%2Csyd-dps%2Cmel-dps%2Cbne-nan%2Csyd-nan%2Cmel-nan%2Cbne-tbu%2Csyd-tbu%2Cmel-tbu%2Cbne-akl%2Csyd-akl%2Cmel-akl%2Cbne-rar%2Cakl-rar%2Cakl-ppt%2Cbne-drw%2Csyd-drw%2Cmel-drw%2Cdrw-ror%2Cdrw-gum%2Ccns-ror%2Ccns-gum%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm&SPEED-GROUND=432&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

Wirraway

huntsman
13th Nov 2002, 21:38
one gold star for Wirraway.

balance
14th Nov 2002, 00:37
Thanx for your reply Icarus.

Firstly, the point that you have missed was that VB are a little late off the blox. Did they attempt to help in any way? On carriage for the RAAF pax from DN perhaps?

Nope.

Second. Branson's behaviour is simply pathetic. How 'bout some dignity from an oler gent? I personally don't really care, except when the behaviour is carried out simply for a alterior purpose. And that purpose is advertising. And false advertising really craps me off.

Sorry if my posts were a little blunt. Bit touchy at the moment. Am going off to change my pad!

oldhasbeen
14th Nov 2002, 08:42
GOOD:mad:

Dehavillanddriver
14th Nov 2002, 09:33
6 hours with a full load shouldn't be too much of a stretch for the 800 W.

Takeoff weight is 79 tonnes and landing weight a touch over 66 tonnes - max zfw is a touch over 62 tonnes.

That means that you can load the aeroplane up to max ZFW, stick nearly full tanks and launch off into the wild blue yonder.

The difference between max takeoff weight and landing weight is about 6 hours - the only issue would be island hold requirements, which you could probably deal with if you put some thought into it..

the 800 with winglets is an incredibly versatile aeroplane and the 700 with winglets is as good.

Wirraway
14th Nov 2002, 10:10
DHD

If the 73W can go 6 hours with a full load that would mean
BNE is ok for Palau and Guam

BNE (2723'S 15307'E) ROR (0722'N 13420'E) 2345 nm 5:26
BNE (2723'S 15307'E) GUM (1329'N 14448'E) 2488 nm 5:46

Great Circle Mapper:
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=bne-nou%2Csyd-nou%2Cmel-nou%2Cbne-dps%2Csyd-dps%2Cmel-dps%2Cbne-nan%2Csyd-nan%2Cmel-nan%2Cbne-tbu%2Csyd-tbu%2Cmel-tbu%2Cbne-akl%2Csyd-akl%2Cmel-akl%2Cbne-rar%2Cakl-rar%2Cakl-ppt%2Cbne-drw%2Csyd-drw%2Cmel-drw%2Cdrw-ror%2Cdrw-gum%2Ccns-ror%2Ccns-gum%2Cbne-ror%2Cbne-gum%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm&SPEED-GROUND=432&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

Wirraway

puff
14th Nov 2002, 10:23
Continental Micronesia currently operate a 737-800 out of CNS once a week to GUM I believe, Air Mike used to fly a DC-10 down to SYD for years up to GUM but it of course ended when CO pulled out of Oz.

F111
14th Nov 2002, 10:58
I travelled on an Air Mike B727 from CNS to GUM in 1998, aircraft was full and seemed to be a very popular flight. Departed CNS about 1230am.

Guam, Saipan, Palua and Chuuck are very popular with the Japanese and divers. Though my best memories are of 'Club X' in Saipan.

Dehavillanddriver
14th Nov 2002, 22:59
SYD-PER is nearly 6 hours when punching into a good headwind. This isn't a struggle for the 800W and we don't get near to max takeoff weight.

BNE-PER is a bit over 2000 nm via the airway - 1970 direct I believe.