View Full Version : Flying (driving) skills, now & then?

8th Nov 2002, 22:49
Personally I have much more respect for race drivers like Jim Clark, Jochen Rindt, Gilles Villeneuve, Senna to name a few from the old days, than for modern racers like Michael Schumacher.

Before it was 70% driver, 30% car, now it's 20% driver, 80% car. Todays drivers don't even have to heel-toe whilst down shifting, can hold their feet on the gas whilst up shifting, everything is computerized, there are at least 15 buttons on the steering wheel and the latest gag will be a heads up display in the helmet...

I'm wondering with all the fully computerized, fly-by-wire air crafts these days, is it fair to make a comparison pilots with modern F1 drivers where pure driving skill is less important and "drivers" are becoming nerds instead of heroes?

As always, not a fact, just my humble opinion.



9th Nov 2002, 00:34
Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna were complete naturals, a cut above even the best of the rest. I don't like Schumacher because he cheats under pressure, but he's also another natural and I think he'd probably win even if all cars were equal.
Ferrari, one of the great marques in the history of motor racing, were desperate to climb to the top again. Money was no object. It wasn't by chance they chose to headhunt Schumacher for mega money. He's not only an outstanding driver, but an excellent testing/development driver which is what the team desperately needed at the time - they weren't doing well when he went to them. He started winning for Ferrari when their car wasn't the best.

As for your comparison with pilots of modern aircraft, as Flaps very wisely said on your 'Are pilots gods?' thread .......
"Only a fool rises to the same bait time and time again." ;)

9th Nov 2002, 10:59
You know, if it wasn't for his English I'd say KAOS was Mauritz Suter back again, doing his best to "degenerate" pilots!

tony draper
9th Nov 2002, 11:22
Why should Moritz denigrate pilots?,after all, he is one himself. :confused:

9th Nov 2002, 11:28
I was referring to the one who was all over these forums once, but not, I think, a pilot? (Not the real Moritz Suter, obviously).

tony draper
9th Nov 2002, 11:52
The Moritz who posted here was indeed a pilot, and still is.
I miss Moritz, he had good turn of insulting phrase , a dying art now alas. :rolleyes:

9th Nov 2002, 18:20
hmmmmm.......I think this forum should alter it's name into


Have a nice day


Anthony Carn
9th Nov 2002, 19:00

I'm all in favour of a reduction in F1 driver aids! Schumi would win by an even bigger margin! As to whether Senna or Clark would be better, sadly we'll never know. Fangio in a Ferrari F2002 might feel as lost as Schumi in a Maserati 250F ! An intriguing thought, though !

I agree that the latest aircraft are reducing ones levels of "basic" flying skills in some areas of the operation, unless one makes a determined effort to practice occasionally without the assistance of all the gizmos (weather, workload and length of working day permitting). Fact is we still have to prove our ability to cope with failures and some of the scenarios can leave one in charge of a very basic aeroplane ! :eek:


9th Nov 2002, 19:27
Why not get some of the current crop of drivers to have a race in some of the Classic GP meets? competeing in 6 wheel Tyrrels and so forth, would be worth seeing just how they do, would settle a few arguments and perhaps raise some money for Charity?


9th Nov 2002, 21:21
My psychiatrist told me I'm going crazy. I told him .... If you don't mind I'd like a second opinion. He said .... Alright.... you're ugly too.

Have a nice day


10th Nov 2002, 01:44
If your talking pure manipulative skills then the older generation by far outperforms the latter-day Quake generation button-pushers. I estimate less than 10% of these kids have even done aeros or at least flown an aircraft to its limits. And without the toys and EFIS gizmos they are a fish out of water. Easiley proven by dimming down the FMC and puttin the IRSs in ATT before departure. Youll fly it A to B and theyll sit there and gawk at you in absolute wonder.

Given a choice Id rather have none of these wonder-kids on my right if the sh!t ever hit the fan with a half-broken aeroplane on battery power only. This trendy CRM crap works ok when both pilots are up to par. Put a push-button kid with you in a situation like this and you fly on your own pal. Trust me on that one.

10th Nov 2002, 03:14
Agreed, Kaos.
I'm both a pilot and a racing driver, and the skills to do both are a little related to the equipment.
Boeing (and that other mob) built the FMS equiped planes to be able to be flown by any twit, the modern F1 cars rely equally as heavily on the computer geeks to be able to run.
The days of Prost, Senna, Fangio, Clark, etc, being able to nurse home an ailing car are long gone.

10th Nov 2002, 09:11
Piffle I say. In my day we didnít have these namby pamby enclosed cockpits, we sat out in the elements like real men. The caster oil splash back was a bonus.

These new fangled jet engines should be banned as well. Makes life far to easy without losing three out of four engines, each time we fly.

You lot today donít know what real flying is; pussyís the lot of you. ;) :D :D

Select Zone Five
10th Nov 2002, 10:23
The whole point of Formula 1 is that it's at the cutting edge of technology. If you want 'true' racing then watch carting! They are different types of racing.

Even though the cars are computer run nowadays, you cannot take away the fact that the drivers still race, open wheel and wheel to wheel, at 200mph+ and that is never going to be routine.

I for one enjoy the technical aspect of F1 and, similarly, I would dearly love to fly a 777 or other modern aircraft. Although I'm just a lowly C152 pilot I'll bet that even triple 7 pilots enjoy climbing back into a SEP jobby for a bit of a spin? :p

Different aspects of the same world, no?? ;)

10th Nov 2002, 15:47
I've been racing too and my mechanic could synchronize the 3 double 48 Webers purely by the aid of his ears. I know you can't stop progress but sometimes Ms Nostalgica paints a pretty picture.