View Full Version : Vb Per

6th Nov 2002, 06:46
Anybody got any feedback on the Customer Service at VB PER??

Heard a rumor that their staff are stating to Pax if they complain - "Well we are a cheap airline, you get what you pay for"

Really good Customer Service guys considering you don't even work for VB, you work for some mob called Aero-care. Who the hell are they anyway??

I also observed a elderly couple the other day, in their 80's, who requested assistance on arrrival only to be dumped in the arrivals hall to fend for themselves...

What ever happened to Customer Service like the ad says - If only you got Virgin Blue service everywhere....

C'mon guys, get with the program...:mad:

6th Nov 2002, 20:21
Can't comment from the Customer Service point of view, but from the Operational side, yes, they are a bit of a problem. True, they are an agent, rather than work directly for VB, however I believe that is being addressed in the near future. My personal assesment is that the Duty Managers are quite inexperienced and our problems start there. They also have very difficult working conditions over at the International, however, we have had great teams working out of tents in LST and CBR in the past so that shouldn't be an excuse.
I do appreciate your comments, mainly because I know that the powers that be do view this site, and that they will take note. Thank you.

7th Nov 2002, 01:50
well i can say that aerocare do a pretty good job at the other ports they provide virgin's ground services at - being darwin, canberra, townsville, mackay and cairns.

they have expanded really quickly into perth as well (vb), they have 12 flights a day now i think so they have had a pretty steep learning curve, they earn a lot less than their qf counterparts so it is harder to recruit experienced staff.

and to answer your question, aerocare is a sydney based ground handling agent providing services for virgin and other airlines in australia - alliance, rex and continental micronesia for example. they do this in ports where virgin doesn't want to set up its own operations on the ground at the ports listed above.

7th Nov 2002, 04:16
quote:I do appreciate your comments, mainly because I know that the powers that be do view this site, and that they will take note. Thank you.

so brett godfrey is a pruner now??? i don't think so...

Eastwest Loco
8th Nov 2002, 10:03
I appreciate the professionalism of Mary Tassone and the groups department at DJ, but find big issues with the feedback from my SLF relating to the knowledge base and problem solving abilities of he DJ frontline staff. I must add that the reservations staff are also very good and friendly.

It has been in general in line with the Company policies, but the lateral thinking is just not there. This may come with time, but for God's sake, don't advertise it until it is there DJ.

Hopefully a real airline will emerge from all the fluff and posturing.

Currently the airline is widely recognised as a product of the very rich apparent village idiot that owns it. The Screaming Lord Sutch of airlines.

They have top rank pofessional flight deck crew, but in regards to most of the rest of the operaion, please do not assume you know the lot at the lower levels of a huge culture and learning curve.

The SLF know and will vote with their feet.


8th Nov 2002, 10:45
One of my mates in Virgin Blue refers to them as the flying Circus so I guess if you pay peanuts you get clowns.

Eastwest Loco
8th Nov 2002, 11:37
Good call 772

Professionals up front - a side show down the back.

Not a serious Airline.

They may make the grade one day, but I am not sure management even cares.


8th Nov 2002, 17:51
I have heard that VB will not be moving from the International to the Domestic Terminal in PER until Christmas. Is this correct???
I do agree with all the above points. It seems to me that Virgin has this image of being young and fresh and so employ people who are young and mainly inexperienced in the airline industry. I do believe that you need a few experienced people in the job . Have also heard that all the Managers in PER have no previous roles in airline operations - how can you expect to be professional when you've got no idea about the industry. Perhaps they've got too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.
Seems to be a very unprofessional unit with a lot of petty rivalvry and bitchiness from my observations.

Cheers All,



8th Nov 2002, 19:26
:) Once again, as always EWL, a very good post

9th Nov 2002, 05:32
Vb were scheduled to move into the domestic terminal at perth on november 7, this hasn't happened due to delays with administrators so they are continuing to operate out of the int'l terminal until further notice, so who knows when that will be.

agreed that aerocare may lack people with aviation experience at the top but as stated previously you get what you pay for, that is the key though i guess you don't need a degree to throw peoples bags you do need the right credentialled people running the show, i think from what i have seen though that the aerocare ports do a pretty good job in providing virgin with a service. if vb was totally committed to these places they would have their own people their rather than subcontractors.

Seems to be a very unprofessional unit with a lot of petty rivalvry and bitchiness from my observations

i don't think this is totally accurate of the organisation, you won't see qf turn around a 737 in 25 minutes blocks on to blocks off and they are on twice the money. it seems a pretty professional safely run operation from what i have seen.


9th Nov 2002, 05:49
Aerocare in CBR do an excellent job, and they have also now gotten the Rex contract. Not sure if they have Rex in other ports or not.

As with anything, the first little while involves a lot of learning but if the attitude is right and the enthusiasm to learn is there (which it seems to be) the company will go a long way in the rather different airline environment we have these days.

MIss Behaviour
9th Nov 2002, 22:40
The main claim to fame of Aerocare's owner is not aviation related ie Shelley's soft drinks.

There is more info on their company web site.


10th Nov 2002, 07:28
Evidently, the delay of DJ relocating into the PER domestic terminal has to do with unfinished business between Perth Airport and the AN Administrator?! The current situation has meant a rep from DJ will attend the domestic terminal to redirect awaiting guests to the Int'l terminal during the expexted times of arrivals/departures until the issue is resolved.

10th Nov 2002, 10:55

I was not stating that aerocare Australia wide was bitchy and unprofessional, but that it is in Perth, which is what the original topic was about.

Shaggs :D

10th Nov 2002, 11:29
I would like to say that all the aerocare guys I have anything to do with in Sydney. Have been most professionals and good blokes.

Capt Snooze
11th Nov 2002, 03:47
Flew PER - MEL - PER with them a couple of weeks ago.

Friendly efficient staff both ends and in the air. Clean new aircraft.

What more do you want?

Snooze :) :) :)

DJ Fligthie
11th Nov 2002, 09:41
I love the PER guys, very helpful and so friendly. I wish that our main port staff cared as much as some of the contractors, keep it up Perth, see you soon. xoxo

3rd Dec 2002, 09:08
Hi All,

Well Aerocare (AEROSCARE?) strike again!!!

Just spoke to one of the Aerocare / VB Check-in Staff and they said CASA have been sniffing around lately cause the Airport Manager at PER forgot to train 8 staff on DG Acceptance!!

The story goes 3 Check-in staff and 5 Rampies have been loading VB A/c and accepting PAX luggage for up to 2 months without holding any DG Certification.

Unbelieveable if you ask me, and these guys are representing VB as well. I wonder if VB are aware of this. Its one thing not being able to turnaround A/c on-time (even when they arrive early!!), but putting PAX and Staff safety at risk is a major concern.

Only to be expected I suppose when the Airport Manager has only been in the game 11 months with no prior Airline or Aviation Experience and all the Supervisors are ex AN Resso staff - No offence to past employees of AN Res of course....

C'mon guys, shape up and do the job properly or get out of the industry!!

BTW, VB Flightie, were you aware of this before you defended them???

Cheers All,


***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****

3rd Dec 2002, 09:48
WHY doesn't CASA do a total overhaul of VBs entire operation particularly flight dispatch. Have witnessed numerous 'breaches' on my frequent visits to the airport. One has to just shake their head in dis-belief. Also heard a few techies are less than impressed with the professional knowledge and ability of some of the flighties. On a recent go-around in SYD, apparently the FAs were screaming when the engines powered up suddenly and the nose went through 15degrees. Raises question on their abilities in a real emergency. How do they continue to operate to CASA standard????????????????

Eastwest Loco
3rd Dec 2002, 10:29
Just out of interest - and in the vein of a total lack of culture ont the tarmacs these days, boarded a QFlink Dash MEL DPO last Friday and was dismayed to see a trafficy standing right in the plane of rotation of the propellor.

I was taught from day one that this was a no go area and even if engines were shut down, you do not ever pass thru that area, much less stand there.

The blade was tethered, but an accidental actuation would surely make short work of the tether.

DJ has some problems to address, but I am sure it isn't just their problem.

Too many redundancies has meant too many wise old heads off the tarmac, and the result is very evident.

The same applies within the cabin - the passing on of stories of near misses, go arounds, cabin incidents and so on used to be passed down like the secret knowledge.

We really need that back in many cases within todays industy to make it feel safe and secure again.

I am sorry, but staff on the tarmac with no DG training horrifies me.

If that is the way DJ wishes to run things, then I will not fly them.

If it was an oversight - sack someone.

If it is policy - be very very scared.

Best all



Every minute wihout a hull loss is one minute closer to our next one.

Safety is no accident.

Capn Bloggs
3rd Dec 2002, 11:25
Hey 24,

She was there for a while: made a pleasant interlude, during the 15 minute trek we have to make just to get to work, to say hello to a nice young fresh-faced Virgin!

But alas, she's been replaced by a (tacky) sign!

Eyeballs out!

Richard Kranium
3rd Dec 2002, 12:29
Whats the quote from a few posts ago..."if you pay peanut you get clowns" does that apply to the air crew of VB as well????..........:eek:

3rd Dec 2002, 12:53
Just a simple question on DG acceptance... when travelling as a pax when have you ever had anyone ask you what is in your checked luggage in regard to DG? I have flown with QF and AN (not VB) but no one ever asked me if I was carrying any DG or inspected my luggage. Even if the VB check in personel DID have DG awareness and non DG acceptance training I doubt they would have even asked anyone to open their bags for inspection.
No other bloody airline does!

4th Dec 2002, 04:27
Hi All,

Just in response to the last writers comment re: Check-in staff asking PAX about their Checked Baggage and whether it contains anything hazardous, at our Airline it is policy BEFORE we commence any work near PAX we MUST pass a DG Awareness Course, and it is SOP to ask EVERY PAX Security Q's regarding their Checked Baggage - i.e. Did you pack these items yourself? Does it contain anything of a Dangerous Nature etc etc...

It is just a plain breach of the CAR's when staff are not trained in DG Awareness, regardless of where they are employed i.e. Rampies or Check-in.

Once again it just shows lack of Management from the word go. As previously stated the Airport Manager has less than 12 months experience in the Industry, the Check-in Supervisors are all ex AN Resso staff with no Airport Op's Experience (No offence to ex AN RES staff) and the Senior Ramp Supervisor used to be a Kitchenhand in the AN Golden Wing(ers) lounge!!! I rest my case.....

Further to this, I was well informed that the part owner of the business who is also the General Manager based in SYD, has also had no prior industry experience and used to be a Chemist or the like with the RAAF.

As a few previous posts on this subject have mentioned, quite possibly at other Aero(s)care ports where they carry out Ground Handling for numerous carriers they may well be experienced which is good to know. However I really think for the benefit of the travelling public and VB's image the PER Op really needs to be bought into the spotlight.

Cheers All!


***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****

Hi All,

Just surfing the web before I head off to work this afternoon and found this interesting statement on the Aero(s)care Website:


Departure dependability is the hallmark of Aero-Care's ramp handling. Our managers and employees at check-in and on the ramp go through one of the most rigorous training programs in the industry. From the moment your aircraft is marshalled to the gate until its push back departure, our teams are well equipped to handle both the typical and the extraordinary challenges that come with every flight operation


Hehe, makes me laugh, maybe they could ad DG Training to their "Rigorous Training Program"!!!!

Cheers All!!


***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****

4th Dec 2002, 09:40
Can we get some clarification. Was it DG Acceptance or DG Awareness. There is a huge difference.

I have been through PER many times on VB and every time are asked the DG questions.

The comment on how long people have been employed in this industry is a bit picky, in my opinion. We all had to start some time. How long do you have to be in the industry before you are experienced ?.

It sounds like to me, some one missed out on a job in PER.

4th Dec 2002, 11:18

I too know of the problems of aerocare in PER as I know people who currently work and have worked there previously.

Just because someone is trying to bring to your attention what is going on doesn't mean that they are bitter because they missed out on a job themselves. I think it is good to know that safety is being compromised. I mean what if a pax tells the check-in agent they have xxxx in their bag. The check in agent has no idea of the possible danger because they haven't been trained and allows item xxxx onboard. During the flight item xxxx causes an explosion - then what???

I think you will find that in PER very few of the staff members have previous airline operations experience. I agree with you that everyone has to start somewhere, however, perhaps it would be wise to have someone in charge who has a relatively strong aviation background.

By the way, I do not work for Vb and have no desire to.


Shaggs :D

5th Dec 2002, 01:05
the key issue here is that the staff were not trained in dg AWARENESS, not dg ACCEPTANCE, which are totally different things altogether, all checkin and ramp staff should be trained in dg awareness, not acceptance.

as far as aerocare's ability to do the job they do run a pretty efficient operation, and they are able to regularly achieve turnarounds in the vicinity of 30 minutes, something their higher paid friends at qf would struggle to do anytime, and far better than 12 ansett jocks on $80,000pa could ever manage.

pervaspy, you should think twice before mentioning people by name on this site, i don't think people deserve to have their name dragged through the mud by you...

understand vb is planning to take over aerocare's provision of ground handling at perth as it is getting a bit big for aerocare to manage...

:D :D

5th Dec 2002, 07:56
Hi All,

Just in response to T3's comments and as to whether it was DG ACCEPTANCE or AWARENESS, I did make a mistake and it should have read AWARENESS - Apologies to the people who got uptight about technicalities.... However one should be reminded that certain articles do need a QUALIFIED ACCEPTANCE staff member to check them prior to being sent. I have heard that there is only one Check-in supervisor trained for this task, meaning certain articles must slip thru the net from time to time.

As far as missing out on a position in PER, I have no desire at all to work for VB or AERO(S)CARE and am quite happy employed with a real airline - and have been for sometime. And NO its not the RAT!!

I do agree with the response to the other post - we all have to start somewhere - however I do think that people with some Industry experience should be placed in a position of Management. But as previously stated, if you lead by example even the GM has no Industry experience, unless Chemistry is a major part of Aviation these days :-)

With regards to HGW comment - I have always been asked those DG Q's - I guess you must have struck one of the few staff that are trained, remembering the fact I never said that none of the staff were trained in AWARENESS.

My post is simply trying to point out the many problems the VB OP in PER is currently having - being handled by AERO(S)CARE. I believe the travelling public and VB staff, should any of them read this, be made aware that their safety could be being put at risk.

Cheers All....

:D :D

5th Dec 2002, 16:01
Some times you guys amaze me DG check on luggage for domestic travel get real !!!

Australia does not scan luggage so DG identification is as good as the pax answers if he is asked, I never have been.

QF is one of the best airlines in the world they contract out their security at Per who do sometimes slip which is why we were suprised to be abused when on a transhipment we confiscated some of a previously sceened pax hand luggage.

She raised hell stating we were being unreasonable and if it was good enough to pass Per why not our airports non QF flight. We could only politely explain that it was not possible for her to board with her beautiful 5 piece set of carving knives !!!!

Hey we confiscate nail files and then get meals with steel knives and forks in QF J class. Boy lucky terrorists can only fly up the back.

My point is take a good long look at your ops before dumping on others and stating they are unsafe is going too far unless you are adopting world best practise which Australian aviation airline security is certainly not.

7th Dec 2002, 02:53
well said walley...couldn't agree with you more.

in response to pervaspy's comments, it is a condition of employment with aerocare that a dg awareness course is completed before commencing work, vb and aerocare wouldn't have it any other way. there may have been some problem with aerocare perth's training records but vb are installing their own rep in perth to oversee all the training side of things as the operation is getting big there now.

a monkey can complete a dg awareness course, it doesn't mean just because everyone has this piece of paper stating "well done you are aware of dangerous goods" that you are a you beaut super-safe company that will never let anything dangerous on an aeroplane, lets be realistic here, walley is absolutely right, we are relying on the customer on the other side of the desk to answer no to this ravel of questions they get bombarded with in about 5 secs as they are checking in.

i am sure we would all be horrified if we knew what DOES go on the aircraft as carry-on and checked in luggage.

well pervaspy you have "heard this" and "heard that" maybe you should research some facts before slagging off others on this site, well done, good on you, working for this you beaut company that has passenger's safety at the forefront of their concerns, you are a hero mate!!!! (not qf so must be skippers or skywest????)

as for mentioning people by name on this site, that isn't the way it's done, its supposed to be anonymous and people have the right not to be named...

9th Dec 2002, 12:19
Dont forget, aerocare handelled Impulse for several years, and with the 717 operation, they were the slickest and most efficient and professional turnaround crew in the country. Made QF and AN ramp staff look like overpaid bludgers.

I must agree with EWL's assertions about Virgin. Having observed the Virgin ramp operations(at very close range over the last 2 years) there are some major concerns about their attitudes and professionalism. This applies to the Sydney ramp.

Airside driving, most of the guys treat the ramp as their pwn personal race track, constant squealies, handbrake turns and the like.

Ramp organisation is a disgrace, the whole area is untidy, bag carts left everywhere, equipment stored hap hazardly. Litter is everywhere, none of the rampies will remove litter that they walk over. The bays are littered with bag feet that have punctured aircraft tyres in the past.

Plastic garbags (empty) blowing around the ramp in the wind, right past the workers who dont even notice them, much less pick them up. They apparently dont care about FOD.

There is little or no awareness about damage prevention, stairs left unchocked. They cant recognise the need to protect the wingtips of their own aircraft with witches hats, when there are other operations on the ramp(ie the DHL moving fright accross the tarmac). Even when asked to do so........., they can't be bothered putting out witches hats to protect the wingtip of the aircraft parked on Bay 94.

Ball games played on the tarmac amongst parked aircraft inbetween turnarounds. Have seen footbal and soccerballs bounce of the aircraft windscreens. Doesnt sound and look professional when the baggage makeup area which is higly visable to the genaral public, looks and sounds more like a big party.

While the pit crews are efficient(not as good as Aerocare were), tand fuccused, they are not proactive and little concept of the bigger picture thats happenng around them. I believe the management is rather week in skills, and the shift supervisiors do not have their troops under tight enough control.

Tooo much fun and not enough professionalism.

9th Dec 2002, 22:28
"Squealies", "hand brake turns", "football and soccer balls bouncing off aircraft windscreens". Guptar you are full of sh!t. FOD control is occasionally a problem on the SYD ramp and the bag legs are the worst offender. However the problem has been recognised. The rest of your post is crap.

luna landing
9th Dec 2002, 23:42
Just can't put my finger on what it is about Virgin that people don't like, but I was at a Cocktail Party in Sydney last week - mostly professional people - doctors, lawyers etc (talking about holidays and travel) and not one of them had anything good to say about Virgin.

I didn't raise the topic or contribute to the conversation - just listened with interest.

10th Dec 2002, 00:21
luna landing

It's much more to do with the demographic present at the Cocktail Party than VB.

They (the doctors/lawyers) have the same tribal totems and rituals as say pilots have with my watch is bigger than yours, and there is the same, almost certainly higher, proportion of self flagellators.

Except in tbeir case they try the same bulls hit on each other with the "last weekend at our (insert here, tuscan villa, vineyard, little cottage at Noosa, pied a terre in Paris or whatever) we had (insert here whatever you think will cause the most envy) etc, etc, blah, blah, blah......" routine.
In any event VB probably doesn/t go there.

13th Dec 2002, 09:51

You sound like you work there to know so much. If so, what have you done about the things that go on. Did you report them to anyone like SACL for instance. If you didn't and it's true what you say then that is the same as if you were doing it too.

I look forward to your response.

13th Dec 2002, 15:55

The driving has been reported numerous times in the past, both verbally and in writing to your management. But thats water under the bridge.

Beware, SACL are on the warpath about driving, especially in the baggage area at the interenational and domestic terminals. That includes T2.

It will be crowded under T2, drive slowly or someone will get hurt.

Yes, I am very close to the action.

17th Dec 2002, 06:21
Hi All,

T3 - I really don't think I need to justify myself to you, however for the benefit of other readers I will. All of what I have stated on my previous posts is true. I have done my research and my homework! Why do you think CASA is doing a major audit on the whole AERO(S)CARE Operation at the moment. Quite simply, the training in PER for the staff (8) was not completed and they were allowed to carry on working without any DG Certification.

As for the other comments from other writers, I have only ever discussed the PER Op and have stated this on many occasions. I have no doubt that at other ports they may (Aerocare) be quite professional, however this is something that is lacking very badly in PER. Personally I would be very worried if I was VB, having such an organisation represent me at PER. With the Airport Manager when are yoiu going to learn, no names ...period...W lacking major knowledge of Aviation and Airport Ops, its no wonder its run like such a clown show.

Anyway, enough said. Hope this clears up any major problems T3.

BTW, You are very wrong on both counts with the employment!!!
:D :D :D

Merry Christmas all!!

***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****

Theo Racle
19th Dec 2002, 07:09

Naming someone twice in the same post in spite of warnings to the contrary makes it look like we're reading as a personal vendetta unfolds.

Your credibility is on the line now and personally I'd be running for cover, I'd sure as hell sue.

At the end of it all A/C go in, A/C come out. Those with more forgiving personalities would perhaps see the "alledged" DG episode as an oversight. Definately a cock-up but still probably just an admin oversight.

I won't go in to how the DGs awareness by PC or mailed out handbook is a total farce as that is a separate issue.

Sonny Hammond
19th Dec 2002, 18:25
'you won't see qf turn around a 737 in 25 minutes blocks on to blocks off and they are on twice the money'

No service= No mess.

No wonder they can turn around so quickly.

23rd Dec 2002, 13:32
This post is to all the kindergarten airline workers who insist on calling Virgin Blue 'VB'. Get it right guys, the two-letter IATA code is DJ.

FYI: VB is the code for 'Maersk Air' in the UK; and outside of airlines, it's an Aussie beer, as anyone who's worked a hard day would know!


MIss Behaviour
23rd Dec 2002, 23:40
Luna Landing

Just can't put my finger on what it is about Virgin that people don't like, but I was at a Cocktail Party in Sydney last week - mostly professional people - doctors, lawyers etc (talking about holidays and travel) and not one of them had anything good to say about Virgin.

I think it must be a general distaste for aviation or perhaps its employees as I somehow can't imagine this group blowing QF's trumpet either.

Maybe they resent the fact that the staff get discount air travel & they feel those privileges should be afforded to them - a touch of the green eyed monster perhaps?

They always seem to complain the loudest about what they perceive to be the high cost of airfares, yet are in a better position that most people to pay for them. A bit shortsighted of them when you consider the exorbitant fees charged by some for consultations.