Caravan feeder network?

[Dockjock]

When single engine turboprops are granted certification to fly IFR in UK airspace next year is a large move to the type for feeder-type cargo service expected (or practical?)
Given the popularity of Caravans for freight in the US and Canada I wonder if the same model will be enjoyed in across the pond.

What type is currently most popular for short haul light freight in Europe?
Thanks

[rotary]

Ten years ago two caravans were operated in Ireland by Iona Airways for Fedex .Certifiied for all weather and night operations but not for over water.Never had any problems.

[AMEX]

I am sure you know this but Single Engine Turbo prop are perectly allowed to fly in UK airspace. Also they are allowed to fly under a Public Transport AOC but VFR only....
The real change will come when/if Public Transport Single Engine IFR is permitted for JAA reg A/C, in the UK.

As much as I would like to see it happening, I have heard about the "next year" thing since 1997 (Got directly involved not before a couple of years later)!!! It will happen and there is no reason why it shoulnd't but the talk of a Caravan dealer are to be taken with pinch of salt.
Again, I am not saying it won't happen but there are few issues such as whether or not the CAA will require two crew, cost of installing a TAWS (Turbine certified with more than 9 seats), Landing and take off minima, *ETOPS type of rule in the event of an engine failure.

*term used loosely but I remember talks about requirements regarding gliding distances and approved suitable landing surfaces (determined by the Operator).

Anyway, if it happens, my Rating is still current so....

[AMEX]

What A/C are you talking about 707 ?

The only two seats 208 existing are the Cargomaster and even that can be reduced to one with the deletion of the RHS (not common though).
As for twenty seats, I doubt it. We had an exemption from the CAA to carry 16 Skydivers but of course there was no seats hence the possibility to carry more "PAX".

What do you mean an hour from the Isle of Wight to Alderney ??
The TAS is about 174 at 10000 feet with a fuel flow of 370 PPH.
Climb to FL180 and above you get a FF of 260-280 PPH and try even higher at FL240 to read as little as 264 Pounds Per hour.

Basically with 2000 Pounds of fuel, you could go on for 9 and half hours before running out of steam.

can handle our wheather all right

Excuse me but the Caravan has been operating in N Canada and Alaska for a while so I doubt the UK Wx would have any significant impact on its performance.

No doubt you are not talking about the right A/C type which you must have confused with the Cessna Caravan (not the one you have behind you car;))

[Grivation]

Why doesn't a small charter company have one for occasional use 707?

Because even a second-hand one costs over US$1,000,000!

[Flypuppy]

I may be wrong, but was there not the rather bizarre situation of a Norwegian Registered Caravan operating Royal Mail night flights from Orkney and Shetland to the Scottish Mainland a couple of years ago? All was going well until it fell off the end of a runway somewhere. I seem to remember something about that.

There was also an enterprising chap who operated a Caravan for overnight newspaper transport. Apparently, he would buy a load of newspapers from a distributor at Luton for ₤1, operate the flight as a private flight to Glasgow or Edinburgh, then sell the papers back to the distributor for ₤1 at the other end. I believe this little idea was hounded out of existence by the CAA. Something about it being within the letter of the law, but not respecting the spirit of the law. (It may well have been Cherie Booth who was the QC representing the CAA).

It would be great to see the Caravan operating as a freight feeder service in Europe, but with JAA FCL rules requiring >700 hours before a pilot can operate in a Single Crew Environment it does make me wonder where the companies will find pilots to fly them. Similar question mark relates to the Farnborough F1.

[pip-pip]

Martini ran a 208 in the UK a few years ago on a Danish (hangar 5) AOC. They did a great job but fell fowl to the CAA and were eventually stopped.

2 Aircraft have been delivered to UK operators this year to await the outcome of the proposed amendment to the Air Navigation Order.
1 is operating VFR routes only on PT at the moment.

Will keep you all posted as the comittee meet to discuss the addition of IFR capability late this month.

Insurance stipulates 1,000hrs minimum, pilots are no problem to find, operating light twins single crew on some 4:30 sectors over water I could find 100 pilots tomorrow, just shake a tree and they fall out.

[Flypuppy]

pip-pip,

My comments, I guess, are made from the slightly myopic viewpoint of a CPL/ME holder with only 350ish hours.

The changes in that JAR training have brought, again from my humble viewpoint, seem to be pitched at creating quasi-trainee 737/Airbus F/O's.

There may not be a problem with finding pilots now, but is there potential for there being a drought of qualified people with the required experience in the near future? Or am I just being silly?

(BTW, can you recommend a tree I can climb up so I can be shaken out ;) )

[PAIFAgofer]

I had the time of My life flying caravans for a feeder op in the US. I'd go back to it in a heartbeat if they came over here. Yeah ok its single pilot, but damn it IT'S FLYING!!!!

[AMEX]

Flew the 208 in the Uk (only 2 at the time)and the good news for low timers is that mini requirment are only insurance driven.
i.e I flew it with 1200 hours but the pilot before me, joined with 450 hours.
BUT !!! It had to be after the completion of a Flight Safety course so once or twice we saw guys turning up with a Caravan rating (Which they had bought:()done in France, only to be told it didn't make the slightest difference. It had to be at FSI.


Of course with the JAR requirements, if it is operated single pilot, there is a 700 hours TT.

[Dockjock]

Well obviously there would be no problem finding pilots, and there would never be a "drought" either. I'm just curious as to what machine is tasked with all the short haul <3000lb. flying right now...because chances are when/if the Caravan becomes certified for IFR they will become the aircraft of choice (notwithstanding the high acquisition cost).

And no, weather is typically not a problem at all, except they do accumulate ice very quickly.

[pip-pip]

Most of the work currently done on EMB-110, Metro's of various specs and C406 should be taken by the 208 eventually