ATPL theory validity?

[UKPPL]

From the CAA website's latest May 2001 FCL bulletin, it says;

'a pass in the ATPL theory exams will be accepted for the issue of the CPL or IR during the 36 months from the date of the final pass in the examinations. Provided that an IR(A) is obtained during this period, the ATPL theory credit will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR entered in the CPL (for the purpose of ATPL issue)'

Question - Does this 7 years refer to the validity date of your first IR test pass on your CPL, or does it refer to the validity date of the current/valid IR on a CPL?

ie. Do you have 7 years from passing your first IR to unfreeze an ATPL (before you lose yr ATPL theory credits) or do you have a 'rolling' 7 years of grace, providing you keep your IR valid on a CPL?

Any ideas?

Thanks,

UKPPL.

[UKPPL]

Sorry, should have stated that I am refering to a JAR CPL/IR(A) (frozen ATPL) NOT a CAA licence.

Thanks.

[Polar_stereographic]

And if I may add, does anyone know -

1. Does the IR have to be one under JAA or can an existing one count?

2. Will a single engine IR do or does it need to be multi?

Tks

PS

[UKPPL]

Hi,

Managed to answer my own question by phoning CAA FCL.

Basically as long as you keep a valid IR(A) on your JAR CPL you have a 'rolling' seven years ATPL theory credit. Or to put it another way, if you let yr IR(A) lapse you have seven years to unfreeze your ATPL from the expiry date of yr IR(A).

Polar_stereographic - I presumed a IR(A) is the same for single and multi engine (...am I wrong?).

Best regards,

UKPPL

[RVR800]

Polar ..

The existing IR is JAR and has been since
Jan 1999. This marked the point in time at which the IR became considerably more difficult more expensive and more time consuming. The number of people doing it dropped from circa 400 per annum to around 160 negatively impacting FCL revenue. They
then intoduced the you - must get it done
within 3 years rule .. Its gonna get messy
next year .. capacity

As for your other question I dont know

[rolling circle]

You must get that chip off your shoulder, RVR800 - it's affecting your balance. The 36 month requirement was written into JAR-FCL 1 long before the UK implemented it. Like so many other things these days, the UK has no choice over requirements imposed upon it by faceless bureaucrats in mainland europe. In any case, the fee for an IR Skill Test does not cover the costs of the FE conducting the test, let alone the administrative costs and so a reduction in test numbers would actually have an positive effect on revenue.

Incidentally, I've just heard from an ex-student that Air France has been forced by the DGAC to turn down an application solely because the applicant's JAA licence was issued in the UK, something that I have been forecasting for some time.

It doesn't matter whether the IR is SE or ME, the validity requirements for the retention of ATPL theory credits remain the same.

[little red train]

Sorry to be dumb but.

Done the ATPL exams, finally, do I have 7years to get a IR? is the 36month rule only apply to getting a straight CPL? traulled though the GID's and JARs but only got more confussed.

all JAR bits of paper, and i am aware it is from the date from last exam passed.

Thanks

[Blackshift]

I've got CAA ATPL writtens and have obtained my CPL (JAR) within the 3 year time limit under the transitional arrangements, however a telephone enquiry to the CAA resulted in me being assured that I have 5 years (from the date of my first partial) to obtain an IR.

On the basis of this info I decided to concentrate my resources on FI training in the meantime.

What gives? Have I been misinformed, or is there a difference between validity periods following JAA/CAA exams respectively? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

Oh dear, another exasperated phone call to the CAA! :mad:

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Cant help in which time limit is correct,But have read in past threads that information recieved via phone from the CAA can differ.I am not saying that the info you have recieved is incorrect,but get them to put it in writing,so that if the goalposts move in the meantime,you may have some comeback.

------------------
GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!

[Flypuppy]

Here are a couple of links to the JAA website that may be of some use:

http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar.html
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/toc0577.htm
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.1.495.htm

As someone has already mentioned, telephone calls to the CAA can be misleading as the information from the JAA is revised with frightening regularity. If you can get your head around the confusing legaleese of the JAA documents, take this as being the definative guide. At least, for today anyway.

[socrates]

From the CAA website:

We would like to correct a growing misconception within the aviation industry that the holder of a UK CPL/IR(A) with ‘frozen’ ATPL(A) credits will lose those credits if he/she does not obtain a national ATPL(A) by 30 June 2002. It is true that CAA will not be able to issue a UK CPL(A) or ATPL(A) on or after 1 July 2002 except to a pilot who held that same licence on 30 June 2002 (ANO Article 22(2)(d), which means that a national licence can be renewed but an initial issue cannot be made. However, there is no necessity for a UK licence holder to convert to a JAR-FCL licence by any specific date and national licences can remain valid, so that a UK CPL/IR(A) can be renewed after 1 July 2002 and the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge credit will be retained. After 1 July 2002, at the point where a national ATPL(A) would have been issued, and provided the pilot meets all the criteria for conversion of a national to JAR-FCL ATPL(A) as detailed in Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.005, the CAA can issue a JAR-FCL ATPL(A). Until such time as EC Directive 91/670/EEC is withdrawn, and there appear to be no plans to do this in the immediate future, a UK national licence can still be validated for use in other EU States.

The only circumstance in which all holders of a UK national licence would be forced to obtain a JAR-FCL licence would be if the EU mandated such a move. The Authority has argued against such a suggestion and intends to continue to do so. However, in such an eventuality CAA would seek amendment to JAR-FCL to ensure that ATPL(A) knowledge credits are retained.

Hope this helps...

[Superfly]

Rolling_circle , Each time I see one of your post on this Forum you have something to say about the French this, the French that or Air-France !!! So What is your problem ? Are you trying to get a job there but being a failure yourself can't achieve a goal that's far too high for you ? are you simply frustrated that European people in general and Frenchmen in particular get flying jobs in the UK ? I don't like starting fights with fatheads like you but you asked for it..
Use your brain a little or stay where you are and do not intend to use a language wich is not familiar to you as it could damage the already short capacity of your brain cells........ a bon entendeur...

[Flypuppy]

Superfly,

What was the point of your post? This was going along nicely until you decided to turn it into a slagging match. Rolling Circle often uses, errm, a strident tone in his posts but I dont see any attack on the French other than what seems to be a factual piece of information (which I have had unofficially confirmed to me by a contact at the JAA in Hoofddorp). If you feel so strongly about his anti French views why not just send an e-mail to him directly? It keeps the frequency clear for others who may be trying to find out some information.

BTW, when I said take the JAA docs as the definative version this JAA document on Pass Standards(http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.1.490.htm) has now been superceded by the JAA/CAA ruling on Partial Passes
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
Flight Crew Licensing Dept
At a recent JAR-FCL Committee meeting the Examination Sub-Committee proposals concerning the pass rules for ATPL examinations were considered. These proposals were accepted without amendment. These changes affect all JAA member states
currently using JAR-FCL examinations. It is the intention to implement the changes as soon as possible. All states should
achieve compliance within three months. The proposal was intended to ensure maximum flexibility for schools and candidates.
The accepted amendments to the JAR-FCL examination rules are as follows:

1. The existing rule allows candidates to split the fourteen papers into two separate parts. This has been removed and candidates
may attempt the papers in any number of parts, may sit papers in any order and may opt for a schedule to meet their own training
course requirements.
2. The abolition of the partial pass rule has already taken place.
Similarly, the requirement that all failed papers be taken at the
same sitting will also cease.
3. A candidate is required to complete all examination papers
within a period of eighteen months, counted from the end of the
calendar month when the applicant first attempted an examination.
The eighteen months is now the time limit for both ATPL and CPL examinations.
4. A candidate is now limited to no more than four attempts at any individual paper. Failure at a fourth attempt will result in a
loss of any passes acquired and will oblige the candidate to re-enter as if from the beginning. Before re-entry a candidate must
undergo further training. In addition, the number of sittings available to a candidate within the eighteen months referred to above is six. Failure to complete within six sittings will also require the candidate to re-enter as for an initial attempt.</font>

[rolling circle]

Flypuppy - How very kind, that saves me pointing out that less than 2% of my posts mention the french DGAC and only one alludes to Air France.

Superfly - Vous êtes clairement d'intelligence limitée mais peut-être vous pouvez répondre à cette question tres simple:

Q'est la différence entre un hareng fumé et salé et un bureaucrate de DGAC?

If anyone would care for the answer, please e-mail me.