Eight hour bottle to throttle

[anniehen]

Just wondering if anyone knows when the eight hour bottle to throttle rule came in, and why it was changed from twelve hours?

[Icarus2001]

Intoxicated persons not to act as pilots etc or be carried on
aircraft

(1)
A person shall not, while in a state of intoxication, enter any aircraft.

Penalty: 5 penalty units.

(2)
A person acting as a member of the operating crew of an aircraft, or carried in the aircraft for the purpose of so acting, shall not, while so acting or carried, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired.

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

(3)
A person shall not act as, or perform any duties or functions preparatory to acting as, a member of the operating crew of an aircraft if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the departure of the aircraft consumed any alcoholic liquor.

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

Anniehen I don't know when but this is from the 1988 CARs. However the hours "bottle to throttle" is really a mute point as paragraph 2 above means if you are affected in any way you are in breach of the Reg.

So if you have a big night and it has been ten hours since your last alcoholic drink but you are severly under the weather you have still committed an offence.

[outboundjetsetter]

yeah mate- shouldnt they just make that rule :
'DONT JAM THE BOTTLE IN THE THROTTLE":D

[liquid_gold]

Heard a story recently where a pilot was on his way to work early one morning, asked to "blow in the bag" at a random breath test and blew over the limit. Sgt Plod was none too impressed with the fact he was about to go to work under the influence and called the company to inform them of the incident. Turns out the company has recently (after the incident) made it company policy for crew to refrain from alcohol 10 hours before sign-on. They must have fixed the problem, as no-one else has been caught!

[OzExpat]

I much prefer that "other" rule... "8 minutes from throttle to bottle"! :p

[SepsOff]

Allways thought it was no drinking within 8 metres of an A/C

[FL CH]

I thought it was 8 inches, that way you don't spill any over all those knobs and buttons.

[redsnail]

I believe the no alcohol rule prior to flight came from Qantas's early days. One of the reasons for (I think) McMaster leaving so early. He reckoned a beer at lunch was ok, Hudson Fysh said no.
(I could be wrong if QF were the first though)

[TwinNDB]

I believe you are right redsnail.

[Hugh Jarse]

If you go for PCA with the cops you are supposed to mention that at medical renewal, or at least there is a question on the renewal form.

The best course of action is not to sail it too close to the wind. You never know who's watching.....:mad:

[mustafagander]

To pick up on Reddo's comments - in the beginning, Qantas pilots were required to be teetotal, ie non drinkers!!! :(

Given the subsequent history of the airline and my personal knowledge of the habits of many of the leading lights of the last 35 years, I can guarantee that Charlie Q would have been VERY different had that rule still been in force. ;)

The 8 hour thing is in our Ops manual.

[Throtlemonkey]

8 Hours bottle to throttle, a good thing bundy and coke comes in cans then.

I thought it was no smoking within 8 hours and no drinking within 15 meters - to much blood in my alcohol system perhaps.

[OzExpat]

SepsOff ...

Allways thought it was no drinking within 8 metres of an A/C
No, that's the rule about making sure that the aeroplane don't get jealous... :D

[Kaptin M]

8 hours in Oz, 10 in Singapore (and Malaysia), and 12 hours "from bottle to throttle" in Japan.

I guess it really gives us an "out" IF we were to fail a BAC test, by stating that we had abided by the relevant regulation (plus an hour or two ;) )!!

It has ALWAYS "concerned" me that a regulation as serious as this one, is so open to interpretation [and abuse]. It is seemingly acceptable for Captain XX to have been steadily drinking Bundy OP's for the past 6 hours - and is, 8 hours prior to flight falling over, spewing drunk - but ACCEPTABLE, because he stopped at the 8-hour limit, but totally UNACCEPTABLE for Captain MM to have finished his one and only (in the past 5 days) glass of wine 7 hours and 30 minutes before take-off.

Now of course we can argue that the latter, as RESPONSIBLE pilot, should have timed his consumption to stay LEGAL.
However, THAT is not the issue.
The debate should be centred around the PRACTICALITY and the SENSIBILITY of ENFORCING the regulation.

It would appear to me, that blood alcohol content (with a RECOMMENDED minimum abstention period) is a far more practical way to proceed.

[Dan Kelly]

A point if I may.

It's not really acceptable for your Capt XX as, A person acting as a member of the operating crew of an aircraft, or carried in the aircraft for the purpose of so acting, shall not, while so acting or carried, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired.
would preclude any pilot from flying.

It quite amazes me that so many of our bretheren are unaware, or simply forget, this particular limitation.

[Icarus2001]

I think that was my point Dan.;)

[Kaptin M]

"A person acting as a member of the operating crew of an aircraft, or carried in the aircraft for the purpose of so acting, shall not, while so acting or carried, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired."

However the ONLY person who can accurately judge whether or not the capacity of the operator is impaired is the pilot HIM/HERSELF! And if his/her judgement is ALREADY affected, how can he then assess himself accurately?

According to the Regulations, Capt XX has been compliant - he mightn't FEEL too well, but he's LEGAL!
Whereas Capt MM (who had 1 glass of white wine 7 1/2 hours prior to flight) is suffering NO effects, but is ILLEGAL!
Neither of them consider their "capacity to act" is impaired - which in MM's case we (as outsiders) would probably concur is correct - and in XX's scenario we would GUESS is wrong.

Perhaps the regulations need a tune up so that they are more specific wrt to the amount of ALCOHOL consumed, eg. "..no MORE than 120mls of spirits, liquers, or fortified wines, or 1400mls of beer, or 1000mls of table wine, consumed within the 10 hours immediately preceding a flight and no alcohol to have been consumed in within 8 hours preceding planned departure.