PDA

View Full Version : former Heavylift Belfast ??


BRISTOLRE
30th Oct 2002, 14:56
ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE AN UPDATE ON G-HLFT, THE WORLDS ONLY AIRWORTHY SC-5?

Rumour was it was going to PIK then onto its' new owner in DXB?

Any recent news or updates. please....
:cool:

Meeb
30th Oct 2002, 15:05
Guv, where are you.... :rolleyes: :eek:

JW411
30th Oct 2002, 16:54
BRISTOLRE

Please see the rumour that I posted on the Heavylift no more thread some days ago. The rumour emanated from SEN.

707
31st Oct 2002, 18:33
Yow, I heard it's going either to Lion air cargo in Africa or Polar cargo (location of base unknown), ther is a rumour on hevyLift no more that Duxford could be buying. bye.[SIZE=3][SIZE=4]

HZ123
1st Nov 2002, 09:03
Th Belfast is parked outside the ATC Lasham Hangar where it has ben for a number of weeks at SEN.

jetwiz2001
1st Nov 2002, 14:33
The last I heard it was in or going to PIK to be painted and its sold to some Ausiies and going to operate from SYD which will be great for the HLA Crews hopedfully someone will offer them a job which after working for Hales and Pace and suffering like we all did through those 2 money grabbing *****s should be a pleasure:D

VP8
4th Nov 2002, 17:05
Maybe I should have kept hold of the engineering docs a bit longer so the old girl went to a reputable home as I have not yet received the salvage fee as promised for removing all th docs from the garbage.....

:(

VEEPS

PS. Is this the same Lionair that stated on their website in late 2000 that they had bought the one and only AN225 with an artists impression of it in their colour scheme?? Shame they hadn't told Antonov Design Bureau in Kiev who still has it!!

Bubbette
4th Nov 2002, 19:11
This wouldn't be the non-existent company, would it?
See these threads:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70875&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

VP8
5th Nov 2002, 11:15
Youv'e got a point there Mike. I'll make some enquiries ;)

VEEPS

I hope they remember to run the engines soon as if they are not run before 30 days of last shutdown the become scrap!!

Nopax,thanx
5th Nov 2002, 12:00
Just curious, VP8; what about engines in storage then??? Is it because they would be inhibited?

VP8
5th Nov 2002, 15:37
NPT

It's just the engines have to be run every 30days or according to Rolls Royce they are treated as scrap. I got this from one of the flight engineers of the aircraft. I suppose if they were inhibited this would not be the case.

I assume the engines are not inhibited as it is due to depart to pastures new!! (yeh and wild pigs will fly out of my butt!!)

VEEPS ;)

Nopax,thanx
6th Nov 2002, 08:39
Thanks for that, VEEPS; and watch those wild flying pigs; someone might start an airline with 'em!!

VP8
6th Nov 2002, 10:38
NPT

RAFLMAO!!!!!

VEEPS:D

VP8
10th Nov 2002, 21:09
Has the Belslow left Sarfend yet??? Rumour has it was due to leave this weekend for pastures new

TVM

VEEPS ;)

Red Four
10th Nov 2002, 22:25
Apparently not.

707
12th Nov 2002, 19:17
Can someone please update on whats happening with the belfast and its whereabouts is it still at sen:) :) :) :) :confused: :confused: :confused:

ifonly
13th Nov 2002, 13:40
It was parked in the S/E corner at SEN yesterday - I saw it with my own eyes !

707
13th Nov 2002, 13:57
Thankyou, ifonly.
But do you know now whats happening with the Belfast or is it ready to be parked at sen until a buyer is found.:confused:

Red Four
13th Nov 2002, 21:23
Saw it overflying andrewsfield area, on route to jocko land this afternoon.

airchabum
14th Nov 2002, 00:31
Having followed the recent Guv related posts with interest, I noticed from the CFMU terminal that the ex-Heavylift Belfast positioned from SEN to PIK this afternoon using its reg as the callsign.

Anyone know if it is indeed being used by the fabled Lionair? I posted this on airliners.net but haven't had a lot of response so far.

Even if it's nothing to do with the Guv (which it probably isn't) it would still be nice to know what's happening with the last surviving Belfast.

Cheers

411A
14th Nov 2002, 11:38
Whispers from the mid-east suggest that the Tyne-powered bird will ply the route OMSJ-OAKB...:eek:

Deeko01
14th Nov 2002, 13:24
Hi Folks,

Haven't seen it reported anywhere but the Shorts Belfast G-HLFT has arrived in PIK and did so yesterday.

I dont know if this has anything to do with the guvnor or not but if it has looks like we may have to eat humble pie on the aicraft side of things.

Anyone anything to add?????

Regards
Derek

Sensible
14th Nov 2002, 13:35
Well, if Lionair ever gets airborne, I'll eat the first large slice of pie together with my hat!

Seen the post

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=72566&referrerid=13010

Matt Braddock
14th Nov 2002, 14:16
If that is true, it is surely only a matter of time before that lovely old aircraft bites the dust.

Hacking into Afghanistan is hardly a good way of preserving the only flying example of this classic aeroplane.

airchabum
14th Nov 2002, 14:32
Hi Derek

I posted this last night when I saw the Belfast had left Southend, but my thread appears to have been deleted (do we get told why our threads get deleted on here, PPRuNe moderators???)

Apparently the Guv/SAS23 has been on Airwhiners saying that he was behind the posn flt to PIK, but I haven't heard anything else as to what it's doing there or who's involved with it.

Cheers

Ok I stand corrected! My previous thread wasn't deleted but has been amalgamated with a similar thread over on the Freight Dogs forum.

Oscar Duece
14th Nov 2002, 17:56
Just out of interest. What happened to the other Belfast's HL took on from the Raf.

Broken up or put out to grass ?

Any particular reason ? Engine / Airframe issues or just a lack of work for a unique type?

Findo
14th Nov 2002, 18:33
I know there was a lot of discussion about the "new" airline supposed to be operating the Heavylift Belfast but it has now appeared at Prestwick. It sitting where it was reported to be heading - the Polar hanger.

Presumably some of what was said about it's potential operations are true.

707
14th Nov 2002, 19:31
Yes Oscar you're probably correct it is either sitting in a grasspiece somewhere on a small airfield the size of SEN or a bit bigger, otherwise its doing the fire training aircraft or for cargo or military training or just simply being used to practice pushbacks, or its enjoying its days in the museum with lots othere old and unwanted but very rare aircraft. I hate to say but its probably doing the first one you said parked on a grass piece of land next to or in an airports ground somewhere. But wherever it is likelyhood of it still flying or ever flying again are very limited. I hope i might answered your querey, also can please give me its registration so i can pass it on to a friend and i can tell you exacly what its doing O.K. Thanks.

DamienB
14th Nov 2002, 19:43
Perhaps a simple phone call to Prestwick to find out who owns it would be in order? Somehow I doubt a Mr. R is involved in any way except his fevered imagination.

Steamhead
14th Nov 2002, 20:12
Don't know who owns it but the crew who flew it from Southend said it would be at Preswick for a while and was then going to Sydney.
It is also rumoured that the same people have purchased the other Belfast in storage at Southend ( since Dec 2000) and has been used as a christmas tree to keep No 1 flying.

Regards

Sensible
14th Nov 2002, 22:19
I just donít know why a posting on this forum about the movement of the Belfast was inexplicably removed by a moderator without so much as a link, only to mysteriously appear on the Freight dogs forum and dumped as a follow on to an old thread. Not trying to lose it by any chance are we?

Surely after all that was said about NDR that any movement of the Belfast is worthy of a thread on Reporting Points. Anyways, here is the link:-

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=71225&referrerid=13010

Will the Belfast fly for Lionair? The taste of humble pie and hats aint nice!

VP8
15th Nov 2002, 08:58
Hi Doug,

Copious amounts KY used on that one!!!! still owed salvage money from rescuing the tech docs though. Pigs primed and ready to go!!

Rgds
VEEPS

cargosales
15th Nov 2002, 09:17
I have it on good authority that it will shortly be departing downunder, the intention being to use it from Melbourne to Auckland. Apparantly it is at PIK for a repaint first.

CS

Danny
15th Nov 2002, 10:17
I can confirm that Neil D Robertson has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the aquisition of the former HeavyLift Belfast. It has been purchased by South Pacific Air and will be operated in the Pacific Rim. Key personnel including the forimer Chief Pilot have been employed and as soon as the AOC has been arranged (NOT by Robertson) the aircraft will depart for the southern hemisphere.

Any claims by Robertson to be involved with this project are nothing but lies, typical of his continuing behaviour. His modus operandi of phoning the receiver to inquire about the a/c is followed as usual by his claims that the new owners are somehow strategic partners of his. He has been shown to use other peoples company names and logos without regard to the reality of the situation.

Gaza
15th Nov 2002, 19:28
NDR's LionAir (http://www.lionair.com) website is no more. Looks like he has either been closed down or shut it down himself, but given the size of his ego I would say the latter is highly unlikely.

sky9
15th Nov 2002, 19:40
Gaza
Sorry to disappoint you, NDRís site was flylionair.com which is still in action. I think "someone else" registered lionair.co.uk;)

BlueEagle
15th Nov 2002, 21:10
Assuming the Belfast does make it to Australia, (which may only be a staging post?), I shall be interested to see which register it goes on. Being almost certainly a new type won't there have to be a lot of preparation to satisfy the registering aviation authority?

If you introduce a new type to the UK, for example, unless previous information is accepted at face value, it will cost a packet and takes considerable time.

Can a Belfast lift a main battle tank and fly it a reasonable distance?;) - maybe it could go on someones military register?

Moses Mashomba
15th Nov 2002, 22:27
I have to agree with Danny on this one. NDR is such an accomplished liar and deceiver, he manages to convince most that black is white. His usual tactic, and this can be verified on the other website is that a part truth = total truth.

In this instance, he stated that the Belfast would position SEN to PIK for his operation. It transpires that the old bird has just done that. It positioned but no thanks or because of him. This is his evidence; that because he told us that would happen, everything else that he said must also therefore be true. So there! We must all now eat our hats!!

He even states that he is going to earn buckets now that this has happened as he said it would, my version of his words, and has vindicated himself in everything he has always said.

LMAO NDR. Pigs might fly (sorry Danny, no inuendo intended)

PaperTiger
16th Nov 2002, 01:55
see which register it goes on

My guess would be a P4- reggie. Nice folks will register anything - aviation equivalent of Liberia. No wait, they'd do it too ;)

Sensible Garage
16th Nov 2002, 08:26
G-OHCA Heavylift Cargo Broken up at Southend, UK between 12-21feb94
G-HLFT Heavylift Cargo Airlines Ferried AMS- Southend 29may99
G-BFYU Heavylift Cargo Airlines Wfu 27jun92, tt 22434, tl 9363 Noted derelict at Southend aug93 & dec98 Parts missing
G-BEPS Heavylift Cargo Airlines fate?
G-BEPE Heavylift Cargo Airlines CofA expired 11mar85, Broken up at Southend, UK between 21-25feb94
G-BEPL Rolls Broken up at Hucknall, UK during 1979

Stampe
16th Nov 2002, 08:33
No need to go that far if there,s if the EI authorities see some benefit for the so called economy of the "Celtic Tiger" no problem to be sure!!.The Irish register has been available as the Liberia of Europe for years.Very little meaningful regulation after joining the authority will always provide variations to accomodate.

BlueEagle
16th Nov 2002, 09:32
All understood but, it has to have a base somewhere, it is hardly a long haul aircraft and I think, for example, that if it were to ply for trade in Australia, CASA would take great interest. Being on a foreign register and visiting is one thing but I would have thought a Belfast needed some kind of base?

Just my thoughts

Vick Van Guard
16th Nov 2002, 09:33
Blue Eagle

I have just delved into my Aircraft of The Royal Air Force Since 1918 (1976 edition). It states that ;

"Its capacious cargo hold offers 10,000 cubic feet of space, and typical loads can consist of a Cheiftan tank, three Saladin armoured cars, ten Land Rovers and trailers, three Whirlwind or two Wessex helicopters, two Polaris misssiles or three Bloodhound missiles with launching equipment."

I think there should be a couple more or's in there somewhere, however it goes on to say that the early Belfast's suffered a performance deficiency. Which I guess was pretty much like the later one's really.

Vick.

BlueEagle
16th Nov 2002, 10:19
Thanks Vick, yes, definitely a few more 'ors' required!:)

HotDog
16th Nov 2002, 11:40
Could be OK on a MEL-AKL sector, it can lift 36,500 kgs, cruise at 243 knots and they probably got it for a song including the christmas tree for spares.

Oscar Duece
16th Nov 2002, 12:07
Out of interest again.

What other assets did HLFT actually own ?

Didn't they have a couple of Hercs. ? 727's etc. Or is that past history.

JW411
16th Nov 2002, 13:13
Rumoured selling price was a paltry £50,000. By the way, the cruising speed was 275 knots TAS. You could just about get a payload of 78,000 lbs in the old girl but you would not be able to take that much very far!

Goforfun
16th Nov 2002, 14:55
....pity she could not retire and stay in the UK.

Hairyplane
16th Nov 2002, 16:10
THere is of course a Belfast on public display at the Cosford Museum.

Looking a bit tired the last time I saw it - I believe it suffered a bit of damage in the gales a few years back.

HP

Red Four
16th Nov 2002, 22:06
Hardly long-haul? As long haul as anything was in the sixties, I would have thought; I'm sure some Belfast crews could qoute chapter and verse on the longest Belfast flights?

Georgeablelovehowindia
16th Nov 2002, 23:58
The Shorts Belfast, just like the Armstrong Whitworth Argosy before it, was an overweight, underperforming, disappointing pile of JUNK and helped to spell the death knell of the British Aircraft Industry. Thank GOD someone had the nouse to acquire the wonderful C130 Hercules, otherwise we'd have been in deep doo-doo, many, many times. (And that's all I have to say about THAT.)

PaperTiger
17th Nov 2002, 01:40
What ?! Next you'll be criticising the Beverly I suppose.

JW411
17th Nov 2002, 13:12
G-ALHI:

The big problem with the C-130 is that there are an awful lot of things that won't fit in it. For example, a C-130 centre section will not fit in a C-130 when it comes time to replace it when the original item is falling to bits.

The whole thing about the Belfast was the 12 ft square and 90 ft long freight bay. Try getting a Sea King helicopter in a C-130 or, even better, 2 Pumas. In fact, the C-130 cannot even carry something simple like a CF-6 powerplant without a major teardown.

Frankly, you are comparing apples and pears.

I notice that you use an Argonaut callsign. I suppose you would describe that as a Canadian-built American aeroplane ruined by British engines?

BillTheCoach
17th Nov 2002, 13:47
Any idea when the venerable Belfast will be heading south ? My father now 83 worked on the airframe of this aircraft and I would love to let him see it at PIK before it disappears.

George.....whatever all that typing is - the C130 is not a patch on the Belfast just look at the postings here about its capacity and the Belfast did not spell the death of the UK aircraft manufacturing business. Shorts factory at Belfast (albeit called Bombardier these days) still produces many parts for many aircraft. Some klutz in Whitehall ensured that when the factory was sold it would not be used to produce completed aircraft - result : one major aircraft manufacturing facility reduced to a parts factory !

I know that Shorts had a lot of critics but there are still a lot of Skyvans, SD330 and SD360s whizzing around the place !

Findo
17th Nov 2002, 14:18
Bill. The aircraft was still sitting outside last night. There appears to have been inspection activity but that is all. Assuming it is going into the Polar hanger you could expect it to be in PIK for the rest of the week.

411A
17th Nov 2002, 20:55
Had a look at a Belfast at KLAX in the very early seventies, parked right next to a C130. Seemed as tho the Lockheed aeroplane could have had its wings and tail removed and then all stowed into the big Shorts machine...with room to spare.
And with BIG RR engines, who could ask for more?

OK, I like RR engines, twenty five years+ on RR powered aeroplanes, and not one failure.
GOOD ENGINES.....period!:D :D :D

propjockey
17th Nov 2002, 21:09
Well I had a gander at her yesterday and wish I had took the camera down now. Must remember to put that in my bag everytime I go down!

She was sitting over on the southside next to the flying club - so she is being sold?

They were cleaning it yesterday (prior to paint?)

been flying over my house (just off the centreline for 31 - 8 miles from touchdown) beatutiful site.

those RR Tynes make a beatiful noise!

I see from the G-INFO site she has a lot of hours and first built in 1964!

amazing a/c - shame she is going abroad

regards

Simon

EGPK PPRUNER

newswatcher
18th Nov 2002, 09:50
Sensible Garage,

G-BEPS, stripped for spares for G-HLFT at Southend. Ferried Manston to Southend 30/3/01.

BRISTOLRE
18th Nov 2002, 11:02
This is old news, the aircraft is now in PIK for a refit and repaint....

Captain Numpty
18th Nov 2002, 19:21
I can pretty much confirm that it's off to Aussie land!

How do I know that you may ask?

Because I know an Engineer who's been offered a job out there to give it some TLC!

Good luck, and long may the Old Bird Fly!

C.N.

BlueEagle
18th Nov 2002, 20:32
Any chance the old girl could be converted to a fire fighter? A very hot dry summer approaching fast here, bush fires are going to be a serious problem.

PaperTiger
18th Nov 2002, 21:56
None at all I'd say Blue. A tanker conversion takes an enormous amount of engineering, STCs and sundry stuff. No-one's going to do that for a one-off.

Evanelpus
19th Nov 2002, 09:14
Well, the plot thickens. The following two sets of comments were posted on Airwhiners.net by SAS23 (Guv?). I'll leave it up to you as to whether you think his comments about the deposit for the Belfast are true or not............

Posted 18.11.02 @ 5.53pm

Well, if you believe the proprietor of another aviation board who claims that I have "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to do with this aircraft, then you'll doubtless be amazed to learn that I not only provided the deposit cheque for the Belfast on the 11th October (drawn on a Lionair Holdings plc account) but also signed the Heads of Agreement for the purchase of the aircraft as a witness.

Additionally, you might be interested to learn that the CAA intends to serve a Detention Order on the aircraft until its airworthiness certification status gets sorted out.

The Belfast was subject to an agreement between Heavylift Cargo Airlines, the previous owners and Marshalls of Cambridge who provided a design support service for repairs and continued airworthiness. This agreement lapsed with the demise of Heavylift Cargo Airlines.

The CAA has asked Short Bros and Marshalls to confirm the status of support arrangements and obviously this will have a bearing upon the continued validity of the Type Certificate. This may mean withdrawal of the type certificate if support is not forthcoming.

Of course, as I have "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to do with the aircraft, as claimed by that other proprietor from the "place of dried plums " - who also says: Any claims by Robertson to be involved with this project are nothing but lies, typical of his continuing behaviour. His modus operandi of phoning the receiver to inquire about the a/c is followed as usual by his claims that the new owners are somehow strategic partners of his. - then I must be making all of this up.

On the other hand, if you believe what I am telling you, then perhaps you might like to ask yourself why that person has to lie ... and lie so emphatically ... and if he is lying, what is he trying to hide by attempting to destroy my credibility?

Posted on 19.11.02 @3.36am

Having run three operations in Africa with a measure of success - including a regional passenger one - and therefore complying with your yardstick of "prior performance is an indicator of future performance" I wonder why it is that you feel that my credibility would be "high amongst the spotter fraternity and less so amongst other circles"?

As to where the Belfast will go, until the airworthiness issues get sorted out the answer is it's going nowhere. The owners (and I have never claimed to be one of them, despite lies to the contrary by the person referred to above) have a choice - do they go for the 'bird in the hand' of a contract with a guaranteed number of hours in the South Pacific; or do they take a chance and send it to the Middle East where it will be perfectly positioned to pick up MOD/DOD work in the event that Iraq kicks off - plus potentially well over double the amount of hours of the South Pacific contract, but on an ad-hoc, non contractual basis?

I have suggested to them that the best way of playing this is to send the aircraft out to the South Pacific via SHJ. The people there are prepared to pick up the tab for all expenses if they leave it there for a fortnight during which time they can prove the market - if it flies a satisfactory number of hours, and payments are received on time etc then it can stay there; if not, it can continue headed southeast.

However, they currently say that shortest route to the Pacific Islands is via Canada - which it is, by a couple of thousand miles (using Fiji as a destination) ... but as it involves crossing both a very large expanse of frozen wasteland and then the Pacific I personally wouldn't be wildly keen about doing it!

Time alone will tell what will happen.

brakedwell
19th Nov 2002, 11:02
I'm not too sure about the reliability of the Rolls Royce Tynes fitted to the Belfast. When I was on RAF Britannias in the late sixties, I was called out from standby to deliver a pair of RR Tynes to Bahrain for two broken Belfasts. We flew nonstop Lyneham to Bahrain, picked up the combined payload of both Belfasts and returned to UK via Cyprus the next day. Admittedly this was before uprated engines and go faster GT strakes were fitted to the Belslow, improving performance and three engine capability, and allowing a respectable payload to be carried over the mountains of Iran and northernTurkey.

Danny
19th Nov 2002, 12:07
I refer you to the following item: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/943593/

Username: SAS23
Posted 2002-10-12 20:56:13 and read 1699 times.

I'm very happy to report that my company, Lionair Cargo, has agreed to acquire the last operational Shorts Belfast from Heavylift Aviation Limited (in Administrative Receivership) in partnership with an Australian group. We intend to fly it up to Prestwick next weekend from Southend; and then to the UAE once it has been repainted in our colours.

As for his 'credibility', what credibility might that be? Considering the new paedophile laws announced today, someone who stalks the internet and poses as a child psychologist specialising in sex abuse and tries to 'befriend' vulnerable people and then also poses in a pilots uniform when he has never studied or been examined for any professional pilots licence. Do you need more?

I will continue to expose Neil Robertson for the fraud that he is. Unfortunately too many innocent but gullible people have been drawn in by his expertise in conning people and I intend to make it my business to put a stop to that. He used to use PPRuNe to try and con people and he has claimed that I am a war criminal and responsible for the murder of women and children and then gone and published my home address with an invitation for any of his fellow nutters to pay me a visit. The police are now investigating a complaint about that criminal act of cowardice in trying to incite people to do his dirty work and no doubt he will hear from them in due course.

The latest lie from the Lionair Holdings plc website that I can expose is his claim on his website that IRG-Capita are his 'regsitrars'. The following received from them:we can confirm that Capita IRG Plc does not have a relationship with Lionair Holdings, nor do we act as their registrar.

I am now awaiting permission from the owners of the Belfast to publish their response to Neil Robertsons continuing lies. I can already confirm that he has nothing whatsoever to do with the aircraft and his Walter Mitty ramblings only serve to show you how far he is prepared to go to try and smokescreen his way out of his original claim that Lionair had aquired the a/c and it was to be painted in their colours. :rolleyes:

Evanelpus
19th Nov 2002, 12:14
Way to go Danny, I'm sure all reasonably minded PPRuNers are right behind you on this one.

newswatcher
19th Nov 2002, 12:54
Any sign of Mr Jamieson taking this story up in his professional capacity?

BahrainLad
19th Nov 2002, 15:20
The claim that the company is associated with Capita IRG has now been suspiciously removed from http://www.flylionair.com/company_details.htm ...........wonder if it went with the 'investor in people' logo!? :D :D :D

ajamieson
19th Nov 2002, 16:18
Newswatcher rest assured I'm not the only journalist on this man's case. It will need a bit of digging to do the job properly and to avoid mistakes (apparently we make those from time to time;):rolleyes::o) but the cuttings file on him is pretty big already. Promise to keep you posted.

off watch
19th Nov 2002, 21:18
On 18/11/02 the C.A.A. issued a "Direction To Prevent Aircraft Flying" against GHLFT & it remains outside the Polar hangar at PIK

411A
19th Nov 2002, 22:26
Recall when the Belfast first came on the UK civil register, the CAA required a 4th crewmember stationed on the obs seat to yell...STALL, STALL, if the aeroplane ever got "too slow."

What a complete waste of time...typical British mumbo-jumbo overreaction to civil certification.

Question; did the RAF ever crash a Belfast because it got "too slow" and stalled at low level? Seems to me that the RAF knew what they were doing...surprise, surprise...for the military.:eek:

Findo
29th Jun 2003, 01:49
For those still interested I believe she is finally in the hanger at last for a major makeover before setting off.

Last flight in the UK ?:{