Crash at Barwon Heads

[Luca_brasi]

Just on the age website that a light plane has crashed into a fish and chip shop. No injuries or fatalities. Also reporting that there was fuel on the Runway at Geelong (??)

Anybody know any more?

[Desert Flower]

What a way to get your fish & chips!!! :D

[Dogimed]

Pilot freed from wreckage
October 30, 2002

PARAMEDICS have freed the pilot from a crashed light aircraft at a small airfield near Geelong, Victoria.

The plane crashed into the roof of a seafood building near Barwon Heads Airfield just after 11am (AEDT) today, slightly injuring one person inside and trapping the pilot in the wreckage.

Ambulance officers have been using one of the Country Fire Authority's (CFA) ladder trucks to help extricate the pilot from the wreckage of the plane, which is embedded in the roof of the building.

CFA spokesman Peter Philp said paramedics treated the pilot on the roof of the shop, before taking him to hospital.

"They have secured him to a spinal board," Mr Philp said.

"The plan is the ambulance officers will move the pilot on the spinal board through a door in the roof area." The pilot has remained conscious throughout the rescue operation.

Mr Philp said the rescue operations had been hampered by the instability of the building.

"The situation is still not under control," he said.

Another man inside the building has been taken to Geelong hospital with minor injuries.

"Some material from the building hit him on the head," Rural Ambulance Service spokesman John Mullen said.

Firefighters have covered the building, the plane and the surrounding area with foam retardant to try to prevent an explosion of spilt fuel.

The pilot was the only person in the plane.

[Dale Harris]

Sadly, 'twas but a matter of time.................:(

[olderbutyzer]

Aircraft was VH-MKH, a C206.

[xplane10]

Rumor has it the aircraft clipped the top of the hangar at high speed prior to entering the fish and chip shop and that there were witnesses watching the final flight of the aircraft prior to departure to Canberra.
May bear some similarity to the 210 prang at Groote Is.
The following is from the ASTB site report of the Groote accident

"FACTUAL INFORMATION

The pilot, the sole occupant of the Cessna 210 aircraft, was conducting a charter positioning flight from Groote Eylandt to Numbulwar. Witnesses reported that shortly after the aircraft took off from runway 10, it diverged to the right of the runway heading. The aircraft was reported to maintain level flight, at about 20 ft above ground level, and track towards the operator's ticketing office where a company pilot occupied the office, with the door closed, at the time. As the aircraft passed over the office it banked left and adopted a nose-high attitude. The witnesses then saw the aircraft hit a palm tree next to the office, and one saw an object fall from the aircraft. They then saw the aircraft lose altitude and disappear behind buildings. Shortly afterwards, the aircraft was observed on the ground, sliding towards the runway where it came to rest and an intense fire broke out. Although the pilot was able to exit the aircraft unaided, he later died from injuries sustained during the accident. The aircraft was destroyed by impact forces and post-impact fire."

Please think very carefully about the consequences of your actions.

[gaunty]

I think our friend Mr Darwin got it about right don't you.:rolleyes:

[NOTAM]

According to reliable source pilot was doing a beatup. If this is the case I hope CASA never let him near an aircraft again!:mad:

[FL CH]

I guess he just wanted some take-away and couldn't find the drive-thru.

[Foyl]

Bit too early for "reliable sources" to be cited IMHO given the implication of what is being suggested (and no offence to your source NOTAM, but I note you later qualify the statement by saying "if it's true..."). Let's see what the ATSB have to say. And before anyone says "it's human to speculate" etc, let's remember that we're speculating about a human here.

[QNIM]

It was reported on the radio that the investigators wouldn't comment that the pilot was skylarking but the flight was videoed, I think Dale got it right but unfortunately it reflects on the whole GA industry :mad:

[gaunty]

QNIM

Does that mean the whole GA industry is equally stupid??

Foyl me old
Stupid is as stupid does.!

[QNIM]

Gaunty
No I don't think so, most pilots maintain runway heading till 500 ft as required by the regulations.
Reported in the paper yesterday the whole operation at Barwon Heads is under investigation

[YPJT]

Couldn't help chuckle to myself when the meatbombs stood by cheering and clapping as the the injured pilot was loaded into the back of the ambulance. Now I know that is a common thing on the sporting arena where an injured player is taken from the field. But the circumstances here are somewhat different and the gesture, whatever the intent was probably inappropriate.

Again, our learned friend Gaunty hits the nail on the head.

Stupid is as stupid does.!

[404 Titan]

Not familiar with the airport at Geelong but I operated an international flight into Melbourne on the 30th. Landing on Rwy 34 we had winds of 340-360/52 down to 2000ft amsl. If the winds were doing something like this at Geelong then maybe this would have contributed to this incident. If he was doing a beet up then this would have possibly compounded his problems. Just lucky he survived, as what I saw on TV that night looked pretty bad.

Regards 404

[yowie]

xplane 10,

what gives you the right to pontificate over the groote crash. We're you there do you really have a clue? Clearly not! The best you can do is quote the ATSB, who write as though they are constantly present during every aircraft crash. it is an absolute farce that you take on the responsibilty to relate this incident to something you know zippo about...... clown.

Don't forget, the guy who pranged at Barwon had just had his 2'nd QF interview and now his licence has just been suspended because he was allegedly video'd conducting a" beat up"!!!!! Apparently a very experienced jump pilot,who luckily was on his own on a ferry flight to his home base!

Remember,things are'nt always as they seem!!!

[QNIM]

Yowie
I hope QF doesn't employ him or others like him
or I will have to can my FF points Cheers Q

[Willie Nelson]

Was this the same C-206 that used to be based at Goulburn some years back, also doing meatdumping. I leave my logbook at work these days so I can't check myself.

If, and (I do say IF) the pilot was conducting a "beat-up" this would have been very foolhardy indeed. Barwon Heads road (I believe that's the name) which runs alongside the airport and the aforementioned fish'n'chip shop, which incidentally sells fantastic fish, could be considered an arterial (spelling?) road. Many spectators indeed. Either way as I was told many years ago;

"The last thing a pilot needs is an audience"

Good to hear he's still alive though!



There is nothing quite as useless as a meaningless maxim.

[compressor stall]

Can anybody quote the rules from those gold empbossed blue tomes which prevent "beatups" along a runway? I am talking about the low pass along a runway and maybe a pull up without a wing over...(that would be a turn before 500 feet).

And what is the minimum climb gradient that MUST be achieved after takeoff?

Does it then not boil down to the court of law to prove the dangerous and reckless flying bit (an offence). Clearly if an accident results, then it was dangerous.

It's a bit like the flying in company rule.... No aircraft shall be operated so close to another that a collision risk exists. Go as close as you like (if you are silly enough without formation training) but if you then clip the other aircraft you have broken the law.

:confused:

No amount of regulation will stop YAMIC - Young Adult Male immortality Complex. Just look at a highway near you on a saturday night.

[xplane10]

compressor stall

Nothing stopping you doing a low pass over the runway, but the fish shop is not near the centre line of any runway at Barwon Heads to my knowledge.

Whilst a turn prior to 500ft is prohibited after take off and technically you have not taken off if you have overshot, it is common sense to apply this rule in the case of an overshoot.

No minimum climb gradient reqd after take off - just don't hit anything!

Yowie

So what are you saying - you know something that we don't (and ASTB). Come on out with it..........

[Mainframe]

Yowie

I have stated in previous posts that this sort of accident happens at least once each year, often more.

The sad thing is that it will continue to happen into the future because we can't do anything about the syndrome Comp Stall refers to.

It all gets down to maintaining a professional attitude at all times, and to avoid the use of an aircraft as extensions to one's ego.
Check and Training can't modify behavioural problems, usually these guys perform at a high standard during testing.
"Watch This ! " is often a precursor to tragedy.

Invariably there are always spectators ( what's the point if there's no stunned crowd ?) present so usually there will be plenty of people to interview as witnesses.

Try talking to an ATSB investigator sometime.
You would find them approachable and enlightening.
And remember they have to go to inquests to state the facts as they have them and cop heaps from Blogg's relatives because Bloggs was a legend and it couldn't really have been his fault.

Some other factor, other than the aforementioned syndrome, must have caused it, some one else or something else has to be blamed because Bloggs couldn't have made any errors of judgement, could he ?

At least this time he survived and will be able to recount how he lost control of a serviceable aircraft.

Aircraft do not crash, pilots crash them.

Read some of Chimbu's posts, is there some reality in what he says ? I think so, I know so.

[penetrator]

All fellpw pilots lets get wise on beat ups no matter how experienced you are a simple little mistake can cost your life while doing a beat up. STOP DOING THEM if you must do them buy a radio controlled plane & do them. At least when you crash just pick up the pieces have a cry & you can walk away.

[gaunty]

Aaaaaaaaah BIK_116.80 you are a hard man. ;) :D

His legal buzzards response would have to be "nolo contendre"

As our friend Creampuff would probably say we still have the right to kill ourselves in what ever manner we choose, notwithstanding the best efforts of our betters.

I suspect most others missed my reference to our dear friend Charles Darwin.

As long as they don't take anyone else out with them, go for it I say, only as long as they don't expect us to pay to fix em up if they don't fully succeed.:mad:

[404 Titan]

He may not have killed anyone, but he did do damage to other peoples property, i.e., the fish and chip shop and the plane. In the end this has an effect on all of us in higher insurance premiums, if they weren’t high enough already.:mad:

[PLovett]

BIK_116.80

Don't think CASA would succeed under the Regs or Orders that you quote but the pilot could well have a hard time under the Act.

Had a case in Tasmania a few years ago where charges were brought under Section 20A(1) and (2) against a pilot accused of low flying over a built-up area. The prosecution succeeded on the charge under (2) but not under (1). Penalty was a 2 year suspension of licence, fined and suspended imprisonment.

An appeal against excessive sentence would probably have gotten up but not against the conviction, even though I have severe doubts about some of the evidence against the pilot.

I don't believe the regulations state that you must achieve the climb gradient, only that the aircraft has to be capable of it. I think the problem with the case in question is a failure to maintain runway heading, for whatever reason.

Gaunty

I don't think Charles Darwin quite had in mind mental capability when he penned his work, however, it does seem to fit.;) :D

Incidentally, I have never seen a no contest plea in Australia. Perhaps a falling on the mercy of the court may be in order.:D

xplane 10 and yowie

Would you please read your private message box. I am trying to find out some information about the Groote crash.

[gaunty]

PLovatt

You are of course correct in so far as the operation of CAO20.7 etc etc.

Whilst not prejudging the results of this accident, when CASA do get around to succesfully prosecuting and gaoling someone for Darwinian behaviour we may see a slowing of the rate of these occurences.

Can't see any difference from the hoons we see showing off in motor cars.

I saw the results of onesuch recently who after doing the smoky thing weaving thru the freeway traffic decided to pass everyone on the emergency lane with much fingering and smoking of tyres, problem was, that there was a tilt tray tow truck in the emergency lane.
One dead, the passenger, the other very messy, not pretty and he would be better off dead.

What's the connection you say? Testosterone would be a good start.

[PLovett]

Gaunty

Testosterone has a lot to do with it. Just look at the motor vehicle accident rates for 17 to 25 year old males. Which incidentally, is also the peak years for criminal activity. Most grow out of it after 25.

I really do not know what it is about low flying that is so attractive. Yet the number of times I have read about low-flying crashes (I refuse to call them accidents) since I learnt to fly in 1968 is unbelievable.

Low flying was part of my training back in those distant days but it did not involve full throttle and as close to something on the ground as possible. Moderate throttle, first stage of flap, slight back trim and a designated area were the requirements. The idea was that if you got into a situation where it was required, you knew the basics but it was better to avoid the situation in the first place.

I have lost a good friend to stupidity at low altitude and I still wonder whether I should have said something as it was obvious that the person was into risk taking. At the time I believed that he would not have listened or fobbed off my concern. I know that if I saw the same behaviour now in any other person, I would try to intervene and damn what they thought of me.

One of the most effective deterrents to juvenile behaviour I saw when I worked as a lawyer was run in the NSW prison system by the Aboriginal inmates. They took juvenile Aboriginal offenders on a tour through Long Bay prison. They did not mince their words and the effect was profound on the juveniles.

Perhaps there needs to be something analagous for trainee pilots so that they are left in no doubt about what can and probably will happen if they continue to take risks in aviation. Do you remember the Black Box series on television where the accident investigators spoke about what a crash site was like? The one that I remember most vividly was the description of the Turkish DC 10 crash site north of Paris with the bodies and parts of bodies hanging from the trees and the smell of burnt meat and fuel.

God only knows that there are enough dangers involved in aviation as it is without us deliberately adding to them.

[flyboy6876]

PLovett

That sounds like a very sensible idea. We had something similar when I was getting my Responsible Persons approval for handling radioactive material. We were shown some very graphic photo's of persons that had mishandled radioactive material showing the full effects of the exposure. It made all of us think hard about how we were handling this material.

Showing the young new pilots some graphic detail of the consequences of their actions may prove a deterrent to messing around in the air.

[Jamair]

Interesting thoughts, but...........

It has been tried with only limited success in the motor car arena; the underlying problem remains that the people most at risk CANNOT imagine themselves in the picture. Not 'won't'; but 'CAN'T'. They are suitably impressed with the gore shots; but it doesn't take root, because "ICHTM" 'it can't happen to me'

Also agree vehemently with Plovett - the majority of these incidents are just that - incidents, not 'accidents'. An accident is an extremely rare occurence. Car crashes have been retermed in 'the trade'. They used to be 'MVA' - motor vehicle accident; now they are called RTC - road traffic crash.

Never been tempted to try low level performances myself; the further I can get from the nasty hard ground during critical phases of flight (like taking off) the better I like it.... natural born coward I guess. Hope to live to be an OLD coward too:D

[QNIM]

PLovett
Well said this was not an accident, his ego was greater than his ability.
:mad:

[CoodaShooda]

Jamair
Not entirely sure about the ICHTM factor.
My 6th form camp received an after dinner talk from the then Victorian police surgeon, complete with "shots from the slab".
Very descriptive and informative, including the effect of tail fins on abdomens and bumper bars on shins. (I can still recall the details after 30 years).

The year ahead of us lost 7 students to MVA's in the 10 years after graduation. The year behind us lost 9 in the same period.
Neither had the benefit of the 'after dinner talk'.

We lost one, a new mother driving her newborn home from the hospital who apparently turned her head to check on the child and veered on to the wrong side of the road. :(

I also recall a story of a RAF Squadron Leader circa 1940 who was so pizzed off by unnecessary low flying accidents that he paraded his pilots past what was left of the last three pilots to spear in, laid out in a hut. There were no more accidents.

Shock treatment seems to be effective...if done right. (but there lies the rub. How do you achieve effective shock treatment in a PC society?):rolleyes:

[Desert Flower]

I think Jamair is right, it is a case of ICHTM (it can't happen to me),
because it AHTSE (always happens to someone else)!!

[Jamair]

Yep; without giving too much away, 'we' (the organisation I work for) can no longer undertake those type of graphic activities after exposing an 'impressionable young mind' to the realities of road-borne idiocy and being sued for psychological damage :eek:

"Be wary of the earth, lest it rise up and smite ye...."

[poteroo]

Low Level turns after Takeoff

As 404 Titan mentioned, there was a strong N/NW wind at the time, and it's easy to lose it when executing a downwind climbing turn in these gusty conditions.

Most PPL and CPL low timers seem to respond similarly to the low level 'slip' illusion that occurs when you turn lower than 300 agl in a fair size wind, ie, most overbank, over rudder to the left, then haul back on the stick to stop the nose dropping. Result is a stall and spin 'over the top' to the right. Some pilots let the nose fall away to the left, without the back pressure, and go very close to a collision with ground or obstacles.

It 's debatable whether increasing the low flying content of the CPL will stop 'testosterone induced acts' , but it might save lives by at least ensuring that low time pilots don't bend it thru' lack of knowledge or training.

It might be a reasonable thread subject if anyone else is interested.

cheers,

[flyboy6876]

Aahh, the penny drops. IT's not that showing them graphical evidence does'nt work (it certainly worked for me), it's that you may damage their minds.

Sooo, let's just let them get out there and kill themselves - no worries about psychological damage, just physiological then!

Maybe we should look at psych test everyone to see if they should be allowed in an aircraft. Heavens above, if they can do that for gun owners, then surely it should be mandatory for pilots!

[yowie]

Hi guys,I feel I must explain.
Firstly,beer and pprune do not mix!
Secondly,Xplane10,
When I(we)first saw your post refering to the the Groote accident I(we)were trying to relate it the accident at Barwon.Couldn't.

There has been a couple of 'accidents'in the territory recently that have IMMEDIATLY been put down to pilots doing "beat ups"by the ATSB,without any real investigation taking place.I really dont want to go any further regarding this but I doubt that we have heard the end of it!

This realisation,and some after thought,brings me to the conclusion that,like a lot of you guys out there,I am a HYPOCRITE.
Why:
I immediatly jumped to the conclusion that this guy had messed up because of a beat-up,without taking into consideration of possible adverse conditions or the possibility of a mechanical failure.
For this I apologise to the pilot and his family.
For those who subscribe to the testosterone theory,this is very true,BUT,I would like to find a pilot operating out there today who hasn't pushed the limits and by sheer dumb luck is still around to tell the tale!I know I have and by sheer dumb luck(and I would like to think some skill,but that remains to be seen)I have survived to tell these tales,but by how much I or you will never know!
Hence my point,Dont believe all that you hear!