Its nearly time!

[p.savage]

Well, the time is fast approaching, when I turn 18, and able to apply for HSBC Commerical Pilot Loan. So, what do you guys recommend?

Am I correct in saying that one does not need a degree to apply for this loan? I have got security, and I am very optimistic about how the airline industry is picking up, its looking good so far guys, lets pray that the likes of easyJet and Ryanair, take a fancy to low hour guys:D , after all, we gotta start somewhere.

Cheers guys

Paul

[redsnail]

I would respectfully suggest that you take a really long hard look at the industry before you suggest that low cost airlines is where you "get your start". Sure some will, but it isn't the norm.
By going directly to a RHS of a jet you are missing out on an awful lot of experience.
I would still be very cautious about borrowing a huge some of money at this point in time.

[Elvis21]

I'll second that

[jasonjdr]

You have security for the loan, and you're not even 18 yet ???!!!

Lucky lad. :eek:

However, hold back! No point going all out for the FATPL straight away. Take on the above post, and read some of the others on this forum. I fear that you're optimism may be a little premature re. the industry picking up, and the possibilities of gaining a rhs with a low cost carrier.

[Ray Ban]

Paul,

It never ceases to amaze me how naive some young wannabes are!:( Low cost doesn't mean low standard! The passengers deserve better and in any event 737NG's are going for quite a bit these days. Unless you are going to get sponsored at your age, don't be in such a hurry to blow a fortune on training. Bearing in mind your comments, perhaps you should consider going to university or something similar so you can overcome this rather naive approach to life.

I am sorry if you don't like what I have written above but sometomes it needs to be said!

Good luck! ;)

[buzzc152]

I agree with everything that the guys have just said.

ANd don't be too optomistic about getting a loan either. Banks aren't stupid. THey'll know the state of the industry as well as you do (they'll probably have a more pesimistic point of view actually).

Also consider a back up plan. Suppose you get an ear infection or something in 6 months and can't pass class 1 medical. Then you're stuffed.

Why not go to Leeds uni and do their Airline Management degree ?!

However, the most important thing to remember is never give up on your dreams. Just plan it out carefully.

[STANDTO]

What sort of security? If they are going to lend you the sharp end of 50k then they are going to want something pretty meaty.

Although 18 is the right time to do it beofre you fall in love etc, I don't see any job being worth debtsville. Your choice, your move and I hope it pays off. However, why not apply for mil selection? You might be lucky and get it all for free - and commission training will develop you as a person

[Rote 8]

Guys

I suspect this Guy is pulling our chain.

Paul
If you are for real then may I enquire with the greatest of respect whether you have ever visited the planet that they call Earth?

I would be extremely surprised if HSBC greeted your application for the loan favourably and if they did you would find yourself sailing down poo creek with a dodgy outboard motor in no time.

No doubt that if you are serious you will have little regard for the comments made above and you will probably not like them. I admit my own are a little close to the bone, the reality is that they are all made with the best of intentions to try and help you.

Seriously though - nice try, even had a few bites!!

[Squak2002]

Hello P.

I'm sure everyone here is only trying to help but it may seem like they're having a go at you for being full of confidence.

But I would think twice about the timing, I know exactly how you feel, I knew exactly what I wanted to be from the age of 6 and all I wanted to do was finish school and go straight to the big airlines!!

I'm 21 and I'll be finishing a degree in Business Studies from Dublin City University in 2003. I'll work in the area for a year until i finish my PPL here and then go Full Time training.

Just give yourself a back up just for security if not piece of mind!

18 IS VERY VERY YOUNG. It will happen, keep BELIEVING!!

Regards,
John

[Big_Yellow_Bird]

I am a young pilot half way through my JAA training. I have spoken to other young guys who finished up quite recently and spent hardly any time out of work. What they have done is after the completion of their training, they bought a ticket somewhere and went travelling. Every place they stopped they looked to see if small operators were looking for pilots.

There is a lot of work out there, but you must go to it as it will not come to you. The problem that many of the wannabes have (and I say problem only with regard to employment) is that they have had a career in another industry and many have a home and family in the UK so ideally, that is where they would have to work.

If you are very young, as in your case Paul, and finish your training young, dont hang around waiting to get employment in the UK. If you dont get anything back from the low cost guys shortly after completion of training, be prepared to put on a backpack and start looking for work elsewhere. If you are young, unnatatched and have nothing holding you back from leaving, by all means go and find the work.

The industry is picking up, and possibly by the time you finish training it could be better than ever. The problem is there are also twice as many out of work pilots around. When more jobs come along, more out of work pilots will be there to fill the spaces.

I was 18 when I started flying, and I say go ahead if you can and start flying. If your anything like me you would sit in a lecture room and think too much about flying to get any work done at uni. Yes it is a gamble, but I am prepared to go anywhere to find work. I am young, and would like to explore all parts of aviation during my career. I do have good schooling behind me, so if for whatever reason everything fell apart, I do have the option of going to university and changing my career path. Just remember, there is more to flying than just the RHS of a shiny plane from a low cost operator. ;)

Good luck

BYB

[G-SPOTs Lost]

:rolleyes:

[stargazer02]

Squak
there's nothing wrong in going into aviation at a young age.
I started at 18 in the US and did my degree at night and flew for the airlines and then went corporate....
A four yr degree is looked for in the US but not in Europe.
If a guy is 18 and knows where he wants to go in life then let him
He can do a degree when he is online...

Redsnail

Also i don't see any problem in going to a RHS from low hours
the likes of Ryanair and Easy jet do it and if the low time lads have the capability then let them have a go.
Aer Lingus and BA cadets are all low time pilots and they go to a RHS on low time so what makes them any different....nothing

If you are commenting on them not becoming an instructor well who cares.....
If you want to be an instructor fine...but some people dont and if they go to a big jet and can do the job then fine let them...
if you want to instruct first nobodys stopping you....

Who wrote the book on how to be an airline pilot....???
Who says that the instructor road is the BEST road....
i've flown with loads of SE/ME instructors who do things THEIR way and aren't regulated in the Airline way....i.e. standardisation and calls....

So in my opinion there is NO definitive way to get to the airlines.
So airlines like low time guys...so like instructors...some love air taxi guys...or corporate pilots and the opposite side of the coin so dont like any of the above and only take military....

The US majors hire 90% of their pilots from the military especially the likes of Delta and United...but does that mean their pilots are better....who can tell....
So to finish you can only go the way YOU want to go and make your OWN decisions and stand by them....for better or worse...

[OBK!]

Paul mate...

Ignore all the arrogant comments on here, there they don't help, and everyone on pprune assumes "Uni is the way forward"...they have a habbit of replying like this.

Anyway....like you I am young, 17 to be precise

October last year I was happily studying Maths, Physics and Computing at college. I was looking into becoming an RAF pilot, let the queen pay for my flying! Anyway, I went along to an interview at the careers office.

The last thing they went through was a medical list, do you have this and that. I went through it all perfectly fine....then "Oh, Sir, Have you had hayfever in the past 4 years"...."Erh, yeh, last year" ...."I AM sorry, you can't fly in the RAF, you have to be clear of hayfever for 4 years",

Assh***s!

Ok, so, we'll have to go to plan b, airline sponsorship, after all I have always wanted to be an airline pilot, but I was always told flying AWACs in the RAF was a great life.....well, not for me anymore.

Ok, sights now on BA sponsorship. yummy yummy!

Sep 11th....Heartbroken, and a month later, the airline industry is in peaces, nature really isn't on my side. Is she telling me something???

Year 2002, still a student, depressed, what to do? no sponsorship predicted....

Exam results day.....2 Es and a B. :( :(

End of year 1 at college, fed up. Have several consultations with fellow pilots, and instructors. They all seem to say go DIRECT. "Go direct?"....."Yes son, if you have the tickets, go DIRECT ENTRY".

Have a long chat with parents. They tell me to think of backup plan....I planned that if I did all my training self sponsored, I would be 19 when I finish. The job hunt would start then, if I really couldn't get a job I would have to do something obviosuyl to earn!

Spoke to this kind gentlemen from NITLC (National IT learning centre. If I'm 18/19 I get government to pay for commercial training in webdesign....good prospects and they can fit me out with a job at the end...)...Backup plan sorted.

Ok, dad agrees to fund me. His job is nothing special, not rich, standard family here. Infact, he's a self employed brick layer. Lucky for me and my dad, nature brings along a nice job for daddy. Someone asks him to build a house about 200yrds from our house. Dad takes Jaguar (sovereign 3.2...where NOT rich!) off the road saving a lot of money per year. The new job brings us great fortune!

Anyway I already have PPL. Passed my test 21 deays before 17th Birthday, got PPL 1 day after birthday, thanks CAA :D

August, hour building, flew around Europe. Got IMC prior to this too.

September, Class 1 medical, passed, medical comes through 3 days later...very impressive :D Nature, again on my side :D

Now, 120hrs, off to Canary Islands in November to get some more hours...oh, and for a holiday :cool:

Currently studying with BGS, ATPL distance learning, enjoying it thoroughly but quite tuff.

Plan to finish Jan2004, all my training with a CPL/IR and ready for employment. Hoping to get into CTC....if not, job search! maybe air taxi/corporate...."If I buy my type rating on a Lear45, will you give me something??" type of thing, if not, instructing, if not...more job searching.....if not...NITLC :) get some money and keep current whilst still on the job search.

Maybe sounds foolish, but it's what I have planned for, what I want...tada.

Go for it, just have a REAL GOOD BACKUP PLAN, A REALISTIC ONE. :D:D

[stargazer02]

Hey buzz
your profile doesnt show any ratings or licences so i'll presume from the info that you don't have any...
You said
Quote....
what happens if you get an ear infection and can't pass a medical you are stuffed.....not so....if you get an infection there are ways to treat it and then you can fly again it doesn't mean you are finished flying for good....
Also us pilots flying live with all those possibilites of getting sick
if this young guy is going to start training the surely he'll have to provide someone who will act as guarantor for him to get the loan and IF....BIG IF he does get this ear infection and can't fly then he won't have spent ALL his money...the school will only take the money he has spent and he'll get the rest back....they don't just grab all your money....
Anyhow if he does fall ill then atleast he will have strove to obtain his goal and dream....
If you are plodding this road too then why be so negative...we have all been down this road so we should help rather than just be so negative....i find this alot with posts on this site.

Ray Ban

just HOW informed were you when you started your training
were you naive about ANYTHING????
I'll bet you were.....but now you are just forgetting what you had to do to get to your FAPTL.....so give a guy a break and be NICE.....right can you remember how to do that???:mad:

just a gentle note to you
if you do have a plan great....but you don't have great results and the airlines albeit corporate or other will look at your results...did you pass first time or 2nd or 3rd...
Also if you ARE continuing may i suggest that you take a course in spelling....i take it that english was not your major in school??
But go for your dream study hard and be all you can be as the USMC say here:cool: :D :cool:

[long final]

+ and - points all round, but just on the individuals issue, do a search re. p.savage and have a look.

Just a young man with a great yearning and a desire that, at the mo, seems to be running away with him. IMHO Mr savage should temper his postings a little and listen (read:p ) more.

But havn't we all been young??

LF

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

One bad thing bout the Leeds degree is that the course is specifically designed for PPL type stuff so your stuffed if youve already got a PPL.

[p.savage]

Ok fellas. Now its my turn to put my foot in.

I don't need this. Like you I am just another wannabee/gonnabe, wheither you like it or not. The fact that I am young,and have the finance to train, will **** some of you off and make you jealous. My time has come to start training, right on schedule, when I planned, and how I planned. Your time to start will come also, if it already hasn't.

However, I have read everyones comments, and generally, most of you really couldnt give a rats ass, as long as your in your flying job, and got your ratings. Well, guys, I, like others dont. I have made up my mind about this, and I AM going to start training, when I planned, despite what anyone thinks. I may be young, so what, I have a head on my shoulders and I know EXACTLY what I am doing.

My parents are, in fact the nicest people I know. Would your father put his business on the line, for your career? I doubt it very much. We are by no means rich, but comfortbale enough to be able to afford a house over our heads, and my folks would not put that and the business on the line, if they did not think I could complete the course and find a job. So, I have my parents support, and to be honest, thats enough for me.

This is a very big decision to make, and I have made it. Thanks OBK! for your post, it truly is inspiring. See guys, we can do anytime if we try. So lets try and help eachother and support eachothers decisions.

Take it easy.

Paul.

Any persons wishing to e-mail me personally, please contact
[email protected]

[OBK!]

Good point there Long final.

P.Savage:

Shouldn't you be in Jerez by now? On one of your posts you said that your parents have managed to get you a loan from HSBC and that you where to be going to Jerez in September?

Anyway, Like I said , go for it if you have the chance but just don't RUSH it! You seem all psyced (spelling?) up and ready, but just calm your passions a bit!

Would your father put his business on the line, for your career?

Phwoarr! big mistake, what if after your training, Mr Job doesn't come along? Or you develop a problem? You then have all your tickets, which are lapsing out of date, and your dads business on the line, AND a loan to pay off?

Drop it a gear my friend. I was like you when I first started thinking about self-sponsored, and though Yipeee! no more college! can do what ever I want! But it isn't like that at all. To justify this, module 1, some of the subjects are tough despite doing well in my PPL/IMC/Night rating exams and practical flying etc etc!

Very best of luck to you my friend, hope to fly with you someday :D

Byes for now

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

I know how you feel p.savage. I often get sarcastic remarks. But this time i think your getting really good advice. People on here may sound sarcatic to you but these decisions can affect the rest of your life and ppruners just want to give you al the facts to help you make the right decision.

I myself will most probably apply for a loan in 2 years after college and i know how i would feel if someone tried to tell me not to follow my dream but like i say, ppruners just want to make sure you know whats ahead.

Best of luck mate, i wish you success for the future, follow your dreams, wherever they take you.

Cheers

[p.savage]

yes, OBK!

I was supposed to be at Jerez, but since then, family problems concerning family health has made me change my mind and follow the modular route, and study at home.

[Big_Yellow_Bird]

Hi again Paul,

Try and understand where some of these guys are comming from. A lot of people here have done the training, built a lot of hours and have experience and degrees from another line of work. However they are still looking for their first jobs. They are just looking out for you, and all of us who are working towards a career as an airline pilot. I took a bit of time to gather some quotes from all of the posts telling you to be carefull:


redsnail
"I would respectfully suggest that you take a really long hard look at the industry before..."

RAY BAN
"I am sorry if you don't like what I have written above but sometomes it needs to be said!

Good luck! ;)"

buzzc152
"However, the most important thing to remember is never give up on your dreams. Just plan it out carefully."

STANDTO
"Your choice, your move and I hope it pays off."

sqwauk
"I'm sure everyone here is only trying to help but it may seem like they're having a go at you for being full of confidence.......Just give yourself a back up just for security if not piece of mind!

18 IS VERY VERY YOUNG. It will happen, keep BELIEVING!!"

Long Final
"Just a young man with a great yearning and a desire"

You see, all of the guys wish you all the best with your career, just giving you friendly advice. Like I said in my last post, I began training when I was 18. I am now 19 and half way there. I know its a gamble, but like I said to you, if your going to be sitting in a lecture room thinking that you could be flying, by all means go for it. I think you should, but like some of the guys said, make sure you have a good back up plan. And listen carefully to what OBK! said in his last post. Everyone here wishes everyone the best.

Cheers

BYB ;)

[Gin Slinger]

BYB, you beat me to it!

GS - a rather high mileage 26 year old.

[p.savage]

roger that guys.

[stargazer02]

Hey there
just wanted to say good luck with your studies...
its a long hard road but as long as you have the determination
it is worth it in the end....never give up...sure the industry is down right now...but i can already see an up turn here in the US and Europe will surely follow....

One point for you.......sod the begrudgers.....
if you are ready do it now....
you will always encounter back stabbers in this industry....but then again you find them in all industries...you just have to harden yourself against them and remember in yrs to come
if you come across some kid looking for a start...then try and help them along the aviation road
so long

[Big_Yellow_Bird]

Stargazer,

All but one of the posts on this thread have been positive. There are no "begruders" or "backstabbers" replying here, just folks offerring advice. I am not far ahead from where Paul is and not much older, but respect what these guys are saying and where they are comming from. Like I said before, loads of these guys have done the training, got degrees on top of that in other areas but are still looking for a job flying. They just know exactly where the industry is at, being on the job hunt themselves.

The UK is a very different aviation environment than the US. You could almost count on one hand the amount of corporate aircraft companies (bit of a dramatisation but you see where Im comming from). There are a lot less flying schools. The majority of jobs come from airline work. You must also have a reasonable amount of flying experience (about 1000 hours) in order to get an air taxi job. Jobs are really few and far between and with so many pilots floating around without jobs, the guys posting are just talking from experience.

Stargazer, please just read some of the posts properly and also view their positive comments. They all mean well.

Cheers

BYB

[vicarofdibley]

I have seen a few references to Easy recruiting low hours pilots, but I dont see any actual evidence of it anywhere, including their own website.

Modular is a good way forward because at least you can pace your training to match the industry up to a point.

Good lucj

[Ray Ban]

Stargazer02,

As was said previously, there are no real "backstabbers" or "begrudgers" on this thread. Virtually all are helpful replies borne of experience from training. There are many pitfalls that can catch the unwary and the sales pitch from the big flying schools is one of the first. I went into flight training in my late twenties, with a degree and a few years of professional employment behind me. Was I a little naive? Did I make mistakes? Hell yes! But I live and learn and try to tell others as well. Do I regret becoming a pilot? NEVER!

Finally, If you think I am one of the so called "backstabbers" or "begrudgers" in the industry then I can guarantee you, that if the time comes you will be looking in the wrong direction! :eek:

[stargazer02]

BYB/Ray Ban
may i suggest that it is YOU that read my reply correctly
I never suggested that the back stabbers or begrudgers were posting replies....i was merely pointing out that one will find these people further down the line and that the fellow should do what he thinks is right.

Also i have friends in Europe who are also on FATPLs and looking for jobs and i know exactly what the situation is for Air taxis and the corporate world in Europe...
i was merely point out to psavage that there is more that one route to becoming an airline pilot and to make up his own mind and not be swayed by that someone says is THE way to go....
my post says in the "aviation industry" you meet backstabbers
and you do take it from me being in aviation and having met them that you need to watch your back and do what you wish
since you are all only FATPL's and take advice from those who are flying.....well take my advice and always follow your instincts.

Ray Ban
doubt we will ever meet but from your thread i would have thought you to be a begrudger rather than a backstabber....
you 2 say that you respect the advice from those in the industry but since you don't take mine ......well that's a bit of a hypocritical stand right......hmmmmm
Finally i don't think i am telling the lad not to fly....i'm just standing up for him and telling him to go for it.....
i think you 2 have got the total wrong end of the stick!!!!

[Elvis21]

Paul,

I am in a similar situation to you and not much older (22). I too was all set for the RAF, got a scholarship under my belt, but then grew too much.
All ready for the airlines then Sept 11th. It happens, but like they say, you do need something to fall back on. I am working in the city and finishing my PPL next year. Then onwards and upwards.

Have you had any lessons at all? If not get some. Also, get your Class 1 as without it you are pissing into the wind.
Listen to what these guys say, it makes sense. If you have got a dream follow it and I wish you luck, but take any free advice you can get. Whether you listen or not is up to you.

All the best;)

[Big_Yellow_Bird]

Stargazer,

Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick. It was possibly just the placement of your post made me assume that you were talking about some of the guys posting here.

You are right, the industry is full of backstabbers and you give good advice to us all. I am not hypocritical about your post, by reading over it again the advice you give us is good, but at the time and after Paul's post a few posts back, it sounded like you were narrowing in on a few of us who were just trying to help. Sorry about that.

Cheers

BYB

[Ray Ban]

Are you for real stargazer02? You don't know me from Adam so do me a favour and don't label me! This is the last post from me on this thread so if you want to have the final word then that's fine by me as I have better things to do!!

C ya.