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Anthony Carn
28th Oct 2002, 19:11
So the FIA have ditched all the more extreme ideas aimed at improving Formula 1.
Instead, today's meeting has resulted in relatively mild changes to the points system, qualifying procedures, tyre regulations and team orders.

Points for race finishing positions 1 through to 8 are now 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1.

Qualifying on Friday is one lap per driver, in descending order of championship position.
Qualifying on Saturday is one lap per driver in descending order of Friday lap times.
Presumably an average is then used, though my information was vague.

Tyres can be tailored to each individual team.

Team orders are banned.

I'm still pondering the effects of these changes, but, at first reading, I doubt that the Ferrari/Schumacher dominance will be much affected; It may even be playing into their hands !

Still need to have a big think though ! This is all part of the fascinating chess game known as Formula 1 ! :cool:

Select Zone Five
28th Oct 2002, 19:27
Michael Schumacher is the best driver and Ferrari is the best team. The others need to perform better.

I like the 'one at a time' qualifying idea. Should be interesting...bit of a b****r if you're slated to go last on the Friday and it looks like raining! :rolleyes: The downside is that it removes the excitement of the front runners having a last minute qualifying rush. That was often quite good fun to watch. :(

Nice that there are more points to go around now. But by far the worst news is that the Belgian GP has been axed over 'death stick' adverts. :( :( :(

28thJuly2001
28th Oct 2002, 19:28
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz on a par with cricket as the most boring "sport" in the known universe.
".....and here he comes brrrmmmmmm there he goes......here he comes brrrmmmmmm there he goes......here he comes brrrmmmmmm there he goes......here he comes brrrmmmmmm there he goes......here he comes brrrmmmmmm there he goes......"

28th,,

Select Zone Five
28th Oct 2002, 19:36
Sorry 28thJuly2001, I can't let that one go...NOTHING in the world is as boring as cricket!

I can see why people think F1 is dull but the reason I still watch the races is that I have tremendous respect for anyone that can drive those cars. That along with the technical expertise is enough to fascinate me into staying involved. :D

28thJuly2001
28th Oct 2002, 19:44
Ok I will agree with you, cricket is the most boring sport in the known universe.
" ......wait 5 minutes CLUNK clap,clap,clap ......wait 5 minutes CLUNK clap,clap,clap ......wait 5 minutes CLUNK clap,clap,clap ......wait 5 minutes CLUNK clap,clap,clap ......wait 5 minutes CLUNK clap,clap,clap"

28th,, :D

Anthony Carn
28th Oct 2002, 22:32
28th

Quote ".....here he comes brmmmmmmm there he goes...." ????? ( :D :D :D )

Naw, naw, naw, naw, naw, it's like a high speed game of chess I tell you ! Calculator, pen and clipboard essential ! ( oh, and an anorak :rolleyes: ).

Needs a separate thread " How to analyse an F1 race !" ( tempting ).

Then as SZF says, there's all that high tech machinery, driver skill and on top of that all the politics, all the personal needle matches, rule breaking.....spins off....engines blown......starting to rain....drive through penalty .......what strategy.....pit stop times....lap times......laps to go .....

Totally absorbing ! Fantastic ! Is it next March yet ?


Loss of the Belgian GP is tragic -- what a mega circuit, especially when it rained, as it usually did ! Awesome ! :eek:

brockenspectre
28th Oct 2002, 22:57
can't believe Spa is gone - bet it was the TV companies not wanting to pay for the aerial footage over the woods!! grrrrrrrrr

Otherwise seems like "same ole, same ole". Ferrari say the 2003 car is going to be even faster ...

I kind of liked the hints at a handicapping system or have each driver drive all cars - but they were all pipe dreams!!

:)

Man-on-the-fence
29th Oct 2002, 09:09
I tried to send this yesterday but the internet was broken:eek:

In the USA the CART championship intoduced a rule this year in the face of boring racing. Basically no car could go more than 26 laps without a pitstop for fuel and Tyres. It turned what was a procession into great racing.

F1 needs to realise that the fans will keep leaving in droves unless they bring back the entertainment factor. Its all very well having cameras ponting at every angle on the car, giving some excellant images. But if the images are from the Cheating German miles in front of everyone else then what is the point.

Bernie and co could do a lot worse than take a look at wat NASCAR does. I know its horses for courses but there is some great racing to be had there with 42 car fields:eek: :eek: .
After this weekends race in Atlanta, Fans go a proportion of their money back because there were less than 30 lead changes.

Revising the scoring system is a start, but how about bringing in US style pit walls and greatly reducing the number of people who work on the cars, if you increase the time taken to do a mandatory pitstop that will close up the racing. Couple this with smaller fuel cells to increase the number of pitstops and you get closer racing.

Oh and they have to get rid of those stupid grooved tyres, they are an embarrasment

sennadog
29th Oct 2002, 09:28
I don't believe that Ferrari should be penalised for producing a car that is far superior to anything else on the track but I do believe that they should have been penalised for manipulating race results so cynically. Before people start quoting examples of Williams and McLaren doing the same before, yes I agree that they did but not to the same extent and with such cynicism.

Hopefully, the one rule change that makes sense, that of Team Orders should eradicate this but I fail to see how any of the other changes will result in more exciting racing.:rolleyes:

Does anyone remember how exciting the BTCC used to be in the 90s when ballast was added to the winning cars? For the life of me, I cannot understand why this wasn't adopted in F1 - this could have been added for the 2004 season so as not to immediately penalise Ferrari but needless to say a genuine attempt to make it more interesting was thrown away.

Go back to slicks,
Reduce wing sizes by 50%,
Manual transmissions,
Ban traction control,
Steel braking systems,

...job done.

And to top it all, Spa will not be part of F1 next year. The one circuit that both the drivers and the fans all love - smart move that one.:rolleyes:

spekesoftly
29th Oct 2002, 09:31
Just how do the FIA propose to enforce the 'no team orders' rule? Fine in theory, but just not workable. OK, it may eliminate some of the more blatant examples that we have seen over recent years, but there are so many subtle ways of 'disguising' team orders, that I doubt the new rule will be effective.

Call me cynical, but I suspect that the F1 teams have only readily agreed to this particular change, because they know they can easily 'work round it'.

Man-on-the-fence
29th Oct 2002, 09:42
Sennadog

Nail, Head, CONTACT:)

Will they listen???? Of course not :(

Anthony Carn
29th Oct 2002, 09:54
The new "no team orders" rule will be impossible to enforce, I agree.

What it will stop is the blatant / obvious use of team orders. The majority of the viewing public will then enjoy the race in blissful ignorance ! Mission accomplished !

Cello
29th Oct 2002, 09:55
...I think these generally are steps in the right direction!

Take the case mentioned earlier where the guy goes out to find his run is in the rain - but others get fairweather tracks.

So this guy is called M Schumacher. He qualifies 11th. Do you not think that this will make for a more interesting race then if he gets pole? There's no way that Qualification will be predictable - which will lead to RACING on RACE day.

The new points system remains to be proved I think, and the difficulties of policing team orders are obvious.

Spa being dropped, however, is not good - not only do we miss one of the top three driving circuits, we only get to see 16 races next season.

Sennadog - aren't your proposals just going to slow things down? (agree that driver difference will be more evident)

Cello

Tcas climb
29th Oct 2002, 10:09
http://www.vbsk.dk/formel_jet_2.jpg :eek:

sennadog
29th Oct 2002, 11:43
Cello - hard to say if "my" proposals will slow things down.

Reducing wing size will increase straight line speed but slow them down round corners (reduced downforce), which to some degree will be offset by returning to slicks (more grip) and removing carbon fibre discs will increase braking distances (more overtaking opportunities).

Getting rid of traction control will bring back driver skills (throttle control) alongside manual transmissions, leading to driver skills being more prevalent rather than just being along for the ride.

Oh, and whilst we're at it - get rid of the bl**dy telemetry. Then again, what do I know being a humble fan of many years who can't be bothered to watch anymore.:rolleyes:

Still, F1's demise is increasing the popularity of the WRC which is more entertaining and whilst I haven't attended a GP for several years (the feeling of being ripped off doesn't sit well with me), the annual trip to watch the RAC (Rally of Wales - sorry, this cynicism is catching) is still enjoyable.

:D

You want it when?
29th Oct 2002, 12:08
I can't be bothered with F1 these days, as has been said no challenge. Ferrari are too good at the moment. Mind you F3 (or is it F3000) was great fun - loads of lead changes and close racing almost as much fun as Touring cars.

These days it seems that in F1 they strap on the missile and just go round. Less aids, manual gearboxes with a foot operated clutch. MoGas and no tyre changes unless (wet to dry).

Who has control?
29th Oct 2002, 12:38
Getting rid of the commercial breaks would make it enjoyable.

They don't have breaks in football so why in F1?

Can you imagine it " And Beckham is lining up for the final penalty to win the World Cup and ....see you after the break!"

sky9
29th Oct 2002, 12:59
I would have thought that getting "Bernies" nose out of the bag and redistributing the money around the teams might have an effect. After all there is only so much that a man of 72 can pay for.

One of the interesting points about the commercial breaks is how infrequently we miss something during the adverts. I have developed a technique of reading the sunday papers while half listening to the TV commentry. That way I don't miss a thing.

Blacksheep
30th Oct 2002, 07:10
The situation is fairly clear. The team that can deploy the most money gets the best car and the best drivers and so on down the order. So why bother with the racing? We could simply have the teams go away during the winter and gather as much cash as they can. Sometime in February the team bosses can turn up in Bernie Ecclestones' office and hand over the cash to decide the winner and the final order. Then everyone can sit back and watch the really exciting stuff like football, snooker, football, horse racing, football, golf, football, cricket and football.

**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

Alpha Leader
30th Oct 2002, 07:51
What's happened over the last few years is that the various circuits have been "improved" with overriding priority being awarded to top speed - as if the cars today were being built without brakes. In earlier days (remember the old "Nürburgring", for instance), there were surface variation, gradients and tight bends to face - plus a very long walk back to the pits if you spun out!

F1 has become even less interesting than watching grass grow - at least you can bet on which blade is going to grow faster

:D