Meteor Accident Statistics [Archive] - Page 2

BEagle

26th Sep 2010, 21:43

I think I only ever went that high once in a Hunter - to do a boom run in a Valley GT6.

We were told that if you used flap above M0.9, the elevators would jackstall and you wouldn't be able to recover until you raised the flaps again...:eek: We never bothered using the follow-up tailplane system either.

Drove back from British North Humberside today along the A15 to Lincoln, then the A46 Fosse Way to the M1 - I see that at last the road is being dualled all the way from Newark to the M1 at Leicester. But a it's a pity to see that the Officers Mess at Syerston seems to have disappeared under part of the new junction at Flintham.

Back in the late '60s on that you route you would have seen RAF aircraft at Scampton, Swinderby, Syerston and Newton. But apart from Air Cadet gliding at Swinderby, sadly they're all gone now.....:uhoh:

NutherA2

26th Sep 2010, 23:07

We were told that if you used flap above M0.9, the elevators would jackstall and you wouldn't be able to recover

IIRC this was the problem that led to the RAF's first supersonic ejection by Hedley Molland (sp?) from a Hunter F5 in about 1955

Pontius Navigator

27th Sep 2010, 08:22

From June 1959 until 1965 a number of NF Mk.14s served as training aircraft, first with No.2 Air Navigation School and then with No.1 Air Navigation School. These aircraft had their armament and radar removed, and the radar replaced by a UHF radio set.

We used to do a number of high level navexes with tops at FL390, heating was adequate but of course only pressurised to 25k, no bang seat, and a standard H-mask.

One trip we did was a Gee-Homing where we would tune in the Gee Mk 3 and instruct the pilot with left-hand down a bit, right-hand down abit keeping the strobes lined up. The first two legs were fine with near straight hyperbolic lines. The third leg was very sporty with the curve increasing down the track. The secret, not always told to the studes, was to stay inside the curve. If you drifted outside it was near impossible to get back as you needed more than 60 AOB at 370.

Aeros were not allowed in the NF14(T) so we didn't do any. Oddly the aircraft was able to climb and dive in a circle and indeed go inverted but we never did loops and rolls (honest :))

henry crun

27th Sep 2010, 08:45

Pontius Navigator: The 11,12, &14 that I flew were all pressurised, do you know why it was removed on the 14 you talk of ?

Pontius Navigator

27th Sep 2010, 09:01

Henry, you're right, sorry but it was 48 years ago. Yes it was pressurised to 25k.

Monsun

17th Oct 2010, 17:57

Thanks for the kind words on Jet Jockeys, hope you all enjoyed it. It seems ages since I did that one.

If anyone is interested I have a new book out called Meteor from the Cockpit which is a much expanded version of what appears in Jet Jockeys and is published by Pen and Sword.

Peter

dmussen

22nd Oct 2010, 06:55

My father flew the Meatbox F4 with 502 (Ulster) RAAF in the early 50's.
He has told me that this was a very unpleasant experience.
I flew the Victor B1a in the 70s. Assy. overshoots heavy at night were plain dangerous but we still did them even after a PR Mk. 2 went in at Wattisham doing the same exercise in daylight. Needless to say there were no survivors.
I resigned from 232 OCU and am here to tell the tale.

anna2

13th Feb 2011, 19:03

I had been searching for some info on this plane crash, I worked at R.A.F. Strubby as an operations clerk and remember how deeply upset we all were at the deaths of FS Black and his crew whom I believe was a Squadron leader. En route to Strubby tower from Manby, I remember seeing the Padre outside married quarters, in all probability that of FS Black. From time to time the controller would allow me to give Foxtrot Golf his taxiing instructions,(I am sure that was his call sign). Thankyou for your entry, I feel a little closer to the past now but still regret the deaths of these two good men. Anna.

cazatou

13th Feb 2011, 19:25

exMudmover

I was Instructing at the School of Refresher Flying in the early '70s and we had to, as part of the syllabus, go up to FL 350 (ish) in the (unpressurised) Jet Provost Mk 4. Try doing that 3 times a day!!

I would point out that we had 25 Courses a year!!

Old-Duffer

13th Feb 2011, 19:46

Anna2,

The accident to which you refer was on 29 Jan 62 and involved Meteor T7 WF771 at East Halton.

The crew were Flt Sgt Willaim Henry Black 39 AFM and wg Cdr Francis Michael Hegarty 40 AFC

The aircraft flew into rising gound but the reasons for this were never determined.

Old Duffer

Marham69

4th Mar 2011, 14:30

I do not know if any of the Meteor Jocks descend to the level of Microsoft Flight Simulator for the odd moment of relaxation...

Released today at the following Freeware site Brit Sim (formerly Classic British Files)

Welcome to BritSim (http://www.britsim.com/)

are two fine examples of the Armstrong Whitworth Meteor NF Mk 14 - Nos 85 and 264 Sqns RAF.

The offering is Freeware and I have no pecuniary interest in the site or with the software designer.

Art Field

5th Mar 2011, 13:46

"Jock" Black was my instructor when I did the refresher course at Strubby in 1960/61. Although tacitern on the ground he came to life in the air and was an excellent teacher. I believe the story at the time was that the sortie was one that included a test of the students assymetric minima which could have gone horribly wrong.

f11367c29261da620e61

12th Aug 2011, 13:26

I was intrigued to find this website a couple of weeks ago. In consequence, this is my first entry. This forum brought back many memories. I was the Station Adjutant at Manby from 1960 to 1962. In consequence I knew many of the folk from Strubby as it was a satellite base of Manby.

On completion of my ground tour I also went through the Meteor Refresher. My instructor (Fg Off Lamont) had been a student of mine when I was instructing at CFS. These couple of months were my last contact with the Meteor. My main Meteor experiences were between May 1952 and May 1955 when I converted to them at 203 AFS Driffield before going on to 541(PR)Squadron in Germany. I may post some more memories about these earlier days when I get the hang of posting items to this forum.

rlsbutler

12th Aug 2011, 13:42

f-numbers

You are very welcome - looking forward to your next

R

CharlieJuliet

12th Aug 2011, 16:38

Happy memories of Strubby and the nissen hutted Messes (only the Officers' Mess had messing and accommodation in '64, the others just provided food). Seem to remember that the first into the block would switch off the other half's radiators as the system was not man enough to do all the radiators. Great bar with Les looking after us AFTS students.

BEagle

13th Aug 2011, 07:40

My instructor (Fg Off Lamont) had been a student of mine when I was instructing at CFS.

f11367c29261da620e61, if that's the Colin Lamont who later flew the Meteor T7 with the Vintage Pair, his final RAF years were as the DCFI and IRE at the University of London Air Squadron. He then became an Oxfordshire County Councillor for Harwell, before retiring finally in 2009.

If you look under 'Share Holders' on the fascinating Jever Steam Laundry website Jever Steam Laundry - Home Page (http://www.rafjever.org/) , you should be able to find his current details - and a mugshot taken quite a few years ago!

Lightning5

13th Aug 2011, 09:11

There I was, Tengah 1960 with 60 Sqn meteor 14's. Arrived line late January after "cruising" with the Oxfordshire for three weeks with 500 non fare paying passengers ! First job help removed the wing drop tanks. First thing, make sure that they are empty! Next action hold onto the front and back end of the tank. Next sound is the ventral tank hitting the ground. Woop! Wrong handle. Vision of the ventral tank lying there leaking fuel from many rivets, and nobody spoke a word !! Happy days on 60 with the Meteors then after a year the Javs arrived:ugh:

Germander

13th Aug 2011, 14:54

I have just reincarnated myself to this user name, as my rather inept initial registration landed me with an unintelligible string of characters. (Starting with f11367c2926 etc.)

My instructor at the School of Refresher Flying at Stubby was Colin Lamont. however I have no record of what he got up to after I left.

Finding this site inspired me to get a copy of 'Meteor Eject' by Nick Carter.
Before this I was begining to wonder if some of my memories were a figment of my imagination as they seemed so unlikely by modern day standards.

The story of the the meteor that collided with a fish train on the appraoach to Full Sutton airfield is of particular significance to me. The student in question was Lou Levitt who was a great friend of mine throughout nearly all my Meteor days. Poor Lou was extremely accident prone. While returning from the Canal Zone, after one of our regular detachments to 13Sqn, he had a mid air collison over the Med causing the other pilot eject and spend some hours in his dinghy before being recsued by a ship heading for Bizerte. Lou managed to land at Istres in th eSouth of France with a bit of tailplane protruding from his nose cone. Both pilots were relatively unscahthed.

By coincidence they both arrived back on the squadron on the same day, but Lou had scars all over his face. He was cycling back to Istres in the dark after a visit to the town when he hit a pile of gravel, sending him, over the handlebars headfirst into the gravel.

Later he crashed his car fracturing a few bones.

Sadly he did not survive his last accident in 1956 when he was the Meteor 7 display pilot at the Battle of Britain open day at Worksop Airfield. I understand that the horn balance on the elevator came adrift when pulling out of a loop, leaving him no elevator control. He plowed almost vertically into the ground in front of the crowd.

Lou was a sad loss, a more amiable chap you could not hope to meet.

Old-Duffer

13th Aug 2011, 16:23

Germander,

Flt Lt Kenneth Levitt aged 26.

The date you quote is a tad adrift, it was 21 April 1958 and he was flying Meteor T7 WL359. The circumstances of the aircraft's loss was as you described.

Old Duffer

Germander

14th Aug 2011, 08:32

Old Duffer

Thanks for putting me straight on the date of Lou Levitt's accident. I remember Dave Goodsir ringing me up to tell me while I was a QFI at RAF Ternhill. (1956 to 1958) I thought it was nearer the beginning of my tour.

Germander

15th Apr 2012, 13:07

Having just revisited PPRuNe. I thought I would post another memory to see if anyone remembers the occasions.

In March 1952 on returning from No.4 FTS at RAF Heany, Southern Rhodesia I went to RAF Moreton in Marsh for acclimatisation training (to get used to UK weather). Whiile there I learnt that I was to be posted to RAF Driffield for conversion to Meteors (Mk4). On the last few days of the course we were told that a Meteor was due in. All of us who were scheduled for Meteors rushed out to the tarmac to witness the event.
We watched in awe as the meteor turned onto finals. To our complete horror the aircraft entered a steep diving curve and crashed about half a mile from the end of the runway. The pilot (a RAF Doctor. I think Doc Mack) was killed. Not a very good introduction to the Meteor.

On arrival at Driffield things didn't get much better. I remember well that when it came round to the Night Flying phase the instructor warned us to 'listen up good' as the last three courses had all killed someone on Night flying. The odds were not good as there were just ten of us on the course. Luckily we all survived as it was decided that flame out single engine landings at night were just too dangerous for us fledgeling pilots.

I then went to RAF Bassingbourn to convert to the Meteor PR Mk10, before being posted to No.541 PR Squadron at to RAF Gutrersloh.

More miostly happy memories there.

alecoc

16th Apr 2012, 10:32

I've only just joined and feel compelled to correct some errors in previous entries and (I hope) put the Meteor record straight as far as I can. Apologies to people who have already posted corrections.

Firstly, the u/c and airbrake controls were completely different. The first was vetically mounted in front of one's left knee and moved up and down. The second was by one's left forearm and slid horizontally.

Secondly, the double fatality night at Westonzoyland, where I was flying myself. A student landed wheels-up forcing two other aircraft to divert to Merryfield where there was a sudden weather deterioration with fog and low cloud. Two pilots (P/O's Tilley and Fry, both Halton "brats") were misled by lights and flew into the ground. No-one else was involved.

Finally, the Meteor was very easy to fly on one engine (2,000 more RPM on the live engine and exactly the same circuit pattern. Unfortunately the service had an obsession with asymmetric overshoots which were really hard work due to the footloads involved, especially if the u/c and flaps were down because the starboard engine, which powered the hydraulics, were shut down. What many people didn't realise (sadly at the cost of their lives) was that it was absolutely fatal to use aileron when you ran out of rudder control. The very first fatal accident at Westonzoyland saw a Meteor 7 spin into the ground while on Exercise 3, the medium level asymmetric lesson on the syllabus, obviously because of aileron use when rudder authority had run out. Unfortunately Pilots Notes actually suggested use of a small amount of aileron which was the fist step on a disastrous path. Life would have been much safer if people simply resigned themselves to landing alongside a blocked runway or (if too fast) running slowly off the far end.

I hope that this info. will be of help to others. I'ts surprising to see how these events all those years ago still capture the imagination !

ScouseFlyer

16th Apr 2012, 22:01

A2QFI

17th Apr 2012, 06:09

This link has a very little more information

RAF Worksop - Those who served and died for the RAF (http://rafworksop.btck.co.uk/ThosewhoservedanddiedfortheRAF)

ScouseFlyer

17th Apr 2012, 13:02

Thanks A2QFI that just confirms what we thought may have happened.Don't suppose BofI reports are readily available for that era?

SF

thowman

17th Apr 2012, 13:40

Regarding the Full Sutton Fish Train incident, I found some photos of it elsewhere on the internet, which includes another photo of a meteor incident.

Pocklington History - Memories of Full Sutton Airfield (http://www.pocklingtonhistory.com/district/fullsutton/airfield/index.php)

John Farley

17th Apr 2012, 14:18

I suspect you would have to go to Kew for more info.

The RAF lost 305 aircraft in 1955 with 182 fatals (down nicely from 1952 when the numbers were 507 and 318) but given you have the basic details it should not be too hard to search at Kew.

JF

ScouseFlyer

17th Apr 2012, 14:25

Thanks John,I thought that would be the case if they were available.Not really an option to visit Kew given that I live in East Yorkshire.

SF

Green Flash

17th Apr 2012, 15:57

Somewhen before 1959 my father witnessed a Meteor accident near York. He lived south of York airfield and his attention was drawn one day to the sound of a jet aircraft above the overcast. A Meteor appeared, diving vertically at what appeared to be full throttle and went in with a terrific bang next to a railway line. By the time he got there there was nothing left; as he understood it even the engines went so far in that all they did was pick up a few bits and fill in the hole. His story has stuck in my mind all these years and I have often wondered as to the details. If anyone can post a link or whatever I would be most appreciative. Tks in antic.

chopd95

17th Apr 2012, 17:04

JP Night flying test circa '69 - RHS former Meteor " if you are sweating on the emergencies, I don't do them. sod the book, I lost too many friends doing practice asymetric in Meteors - never one with an actual"

November4

17th Apr 2012, 20:12

Was wondering whether anyone on the forum could let me have any details of an accident that occured on 1st April 1955 at Worksop.Flying Officer Stan Jenkins was killed together with I believe a student.Stan was my uncle's closest friend,both of them having been boy entrants at Halton,done their basic flight training together before my uncle was chopped and re-streamed as a flight engineer.Stan gained his wings and went on to become a flying instructor.

SF

According to Colin Cummings in Category 5

1 Apr 1955
WL474 Meteor T7
211 FTS
Near Garmston Lincs
The aircraft was carrying out an asymmetric overshoot when it yawed to starboard. It continued to make a turn but then the live engine stopped and the aircraft rolled onto its back and dived into the ground.

Fg Off Stanley Thomas Jenkins (http://www.veterans-uk.info/afm2/roll-of-honour.php?SerialNo=R3859) 25 Pilot Instructor
Pilot Off Duncan Herbert Moffa (http://www.veterans-uk.info/afm2/roll-of-honour.php?SerialNo=R3860)t 29 Pilot Student

James J Halley in Broken Wings adds

2 1/2 miles NE of Garmston.
Dived into ground during asymmetric overshoot at Garmston RLG

November4

17th Apr 2012, 20:36

In March 1952 on returning from No.4 FTS at RAF Heany, Southern Rhodesia I went to RAF Moreton in Marsh for acclimatisation training (to get used to UK weather). Whiile there I learnt that I was to be posted to RAF Driffield for conversion to Meteors (Mk4). On the last few days of the course we were told that a Meteor was due in. All of us who were scheduled for Meteors rushed out to the tarmac to witness the event.
We watched in awe as the meteor turned onto finals. To our complete horror the aircraft entered a steep diving curve and crashed about half a mile from the end of the runway. The pilot (a RAF Doctor. I think Doc Mack) was killed. Not a very good introduction to the Meteor.

The only accident I can find in James J Halley's Broken Wings around this time and location is

14 March 1952
VT283 Meteor F4
203 AFS
Moreton-in-Marsh
Hit trees on approach; landed short of runway and broke up
1 killed

Quietplease

17th Apr 2012, 22:16

I was probaly the last student of Lou Levitt. Finished my assymetric course at Worksop 20 Mar 58. Great guy and fun to fly with. He had a girl friend who lived just off the end of Scampton R/W so we had to visit her on my first night trip on the Mk7. Five minutes in a max rate turn at 200ft until the lights down below came on then back to Worksop for a few SE circuits.
I was doing the ground school at Bassinbourn in May when I was called out to take a phone call. It was an invite to the funeral. Apparently he'd left £100 in his will for a party. Wish I could have made it.
I was told he was doing a very, very low high speed pass and that the dinghy had inflated. It was the usual sand filled coffin. Don't know if the cause was later revised.
Thanks to Lou I got onto PR Canberras for which I was forever grateful.

ScouseFlyer

18th Apr 2012, 14:44

Thanks for the additional information November4,very useful.

SF

ps think Garmston should read Gamston

xtp

18th Apr 2012, 17:44

That makes two of us who have survived from that course! Happy days.

I seem to remember 165 double pumps to get the gear down whilst holding quite a foot force to keep S&L below max gear speed on sortie 3b of the AFS course.

Because of my short legs, I was obliged to have a foam cushion behind me in the T7. I've still got it somewhere. What the system didn't seem to appreciate is that with 150lb+ foot force applied, the foam cushion was compressed so much that it didn't make any significant difference to my crit speed. Oh well, nice thought!

The only time I ever needed to do an asymmetric approach in anger during 25 years of RAF flying was during the Strubby AFS course when doing pre-mediated engine shut downs and relights in an F8. Pity about the relight not working, so I ended up at Waddington with its longer runway.

I also recall enjoying solo night cross country sorties listening to amateur radio break-through on our VHF operating frequency adjacent to the 2meg amateur band. Otherwise, without sidetones in the single-seater, it was very quiet up there on your own at night looking at disembodied luminous dials without the normal-light illumination that we all know today.

We ddn't lose anyone on the course, though.

A2QFI

18th Apr 2012, 18:59

Don't forget the decoding of the PUNDIT beacons!

ACW599

18th Apr 2012, 19:44

>amateur radio break-through on our VHF operating frequency adjacent to the 2meg amateur band.<

Did you mean the 2-metre (i.e. 144MHz) amateur band? The RAF had some spot frequency allocations in the 142MHz region and I think still retains a few.

xtp

19th Apr 2012, 19:43

Yes. 2metre v 144MHz. 1964 is a long time ago!

Old-Duffer

20th Apr 2012, 05:25

Following on from Post 287. The pilot was Sqn Ldr Edward Wintrip Forsyth MACK 31, who was indeed a medical officer.

The accident summary suggests that Sqn Ldr Mack misjudged his approach, as he was not very familiar with the Meteor F4. He is supposed to have made a steep diving turn towards his finals position but the aircraft struck trees before recovering briefly and then breaking up after striking the ground a further 500 yards along.

Old Duffer

Exnomad

20th Apr 2012, 10:37

This subject was the main reason I did not continue in the RAF as a navigator after national service. I had previously narrowly failed a pilot course, some on those continuing were no better than I.
Before I left National service three of my intake were dead, although one of those was in an Oxford.. I believe one was an oxygen system failure, and one a fuel problem.
Mylate brother an RAF Pilot since 1941 was a QFI and had completed a Meteor conversion course but was considered to old for Meteors. His main comment was the teaching of the importance minimum asymmetric safety speed was not sufficiently taught.

Old-Duffer

20th Apr 2012, 11:16

I have not checked back over the full Thread but there is of course the 'phantom dive' to which the T7 was particularly prone.

Can't remember the full majesty of the problem but basically if the airbrakes are out when the undercarriage is cycled, the legs moving in an asymmetric sequence disturbs the airflow and a stall results. Someone will put me right on this.

I did get it from a pilot's own lips that he and most of his mates never practiced asymmetrics because of the dangers. They would do it dual with an instructor and then fudge it when solo by simply using differential power. He said that when subsequently being checked, the trappers often fudged it too!!!

Of course the Javelin is said to be the only aircraft which it was specifically forbidden to spin.

Old Duffer

Fareastdriver

20th Apr 2012, 12:56

The 'Phantom Dive' was thought to be the reason for the last Meteor T7 accident in the RAF when one of The Vintage Pair crashed about twenty years ago. A previous post recalled that the single hydraulic pump was on the starboard engine so the fluid would have taken the least line of resistance and would have led with the starboard mainwheel. With the airbrakes out they would have masked the fin so the yaw would not have been immediately corrected. One thing would have led to another and the aircraft spears in.

Later they had an airbrake restriction to reduce this effect but it could not eradicate it. It is frightening. I was shown it at a safe height in 1961 at Oakington just to demonstrate to me what might happen.

A2QFI

20th Apr 2012, 15:23

It wasn't recommended in the F4 or the Gnat either to the extent that it wasn't taught or practiced.

Fareastdriver

20th Apr 2012, 18:34

Off thread a bit but if you spin an aircraft that is longer than it is wide you run a risk of it developing an inertial spin. In extremis it will wind you up into an irrecoverable flat spin.

Dr Jekyll

20th Apr 2012, 19:25

The 'Phantom Dive' was thought to be the reason for the last Meteor T7 accident in the RAF when one of The Vintage Pair crashed about twenty years ago.

If you're thinking of the Coventry crash in 1988, that was attributed to phantom dive, but it was 2 years after the vintage pair both crashed after a collision.

Fareastdriver

20th Apr 2012, 20:27

That's the one. I knew both the pilots in the previous crash.

brakedwell

20th Apr 2012, 22:39

I must have led a charmed life during my youth. As a twenty year old Hastings flap and u/c manipulator, and frustrated fighter pilot, I managed to talk my way into flying the Levant Comm Squadron Meteor T7 & F8's during a three month Nicosia detachment in the summer of 1958. My Meteor experience consisted of two one hour rides in the back of a 216 sqn T7 when I volunteered to fly lunchtime patrols over the south of the island. (It was too hot for the Hunters to operate between 1200 -1400) After devouring the pilots notes from cover to cover and passing an aural with flying colours I was expecting at least a couple of dual trips before being let loose on my own. The following day I missed lunch and reported to the LCS for my first dual trip. The CO welcomed me with: "952 is ready, sort yourself out with a bonedome." which I did and waited for him to join me in the crew room. Fifteen minutes later he came in and told me to sign the authorisation book and get airborne asap. Having never sat in the front of a T7 my first attempt at starting it was an embarrassing failure as the throttles were not fully back against the micro-switches. The ground crew put me right and I taxied out with full fuselage and ventral tanks. The next day I flew two one hour sorties in an F8, then gradually built up confidence and experience on type over the following two months, while carrying out my Hastings second pilot duties in a series of large mixed fleet night formation (cock-ups) exercises, practising for an operation that never came off. I did not fly a pure jet again for 18 years, when I converted on to the DC8 in 1976.

Germander

23rd Apr 2012, 10:12

Thanks for confirming my memories of Sqn Ldr Mack's accident at Moreton in Marsh. The date and circumstances tie in exactly.

DP

Dennis Kenyon

29th Jan 2014, 11:26

Having just joined the associated thread on: ... see ... 'The Night it Rained Meteors,' I'd like to make contact with Alecoc as I was also flying that night of Feb12th 1954 when FOs Tilley & Fry were lost along with three Meteor aircraft. Sadly one surviving pilot of that night was lost a few days later over the River Severn.

I'm the guy who managed to force land a Mk7 alongside the blocked runway in fog conditions and as mentioned on the other post, I've been asked to write an article about that occurrence at Weston Zoyland. If Alecoc gets to read this please make contact on [email protected]. Many thanks to the guys/gals on here. DRK.

Jackw106

29th Jan 2014, 17:53

some interesting reading here

link I (http://www.3bktj.co.uk/wood11.htm)

Yankee Whisky

13th Feb 2016, 21:44

Around 1955-56 a flight of 4 Mk11's dropped in at 326 Meteor Mk8 sqn stationed at Twenthe AFB the Netherlands. The next morning they were scrambled for take-off and one of the aircraft taxied into the back of another causing wing damage. We removed and replace the wing in our hangar before the aircraft was flown back to its home base.

Does anyone of the readers remember such an incident ?

Danny42C

14th Feb 2016, 02:14

Yankee Whisky (your #306),

Thank you for awakening old memories of a (too) exciting time! I did my Meteor conversion at Driffied (No.1 Short Course) in February '50, and a refresher at Weston Zoyland in November '54. Completed Course, then permanently grounded by CMB - sad story on "Pilot's Brevet" (p.196 #3901). Stayed at Weston until March '55.

Now for the nitty-gritty:

f11367c29261da620e61 (#267),
...On completion of my ground tour I also went through the Meteor Refresher. My instructor (Fg Off Lamont) had been a student of mine when I was instructing at CFS...

BEagle (#270),
...My instructor (Fg Off Lamont) had been a student of mine when I was instructing at CFS.
f11367c29261da620e61, if that's the Colin Lamont who later flew the Meteor T7 with the Vintage Pair, his final RAF years were as the DCFI and IRE at the University of London Air Squadron. He then became an Oxfordshire County Councillor for Harwell, before retiring finally in 2009...

Germander (#272),
...I have just reincarnated myself to this user name, as my rather inept initial registration landed me with an unintelligible string of characters. (Starting with f11367c2926 etc.)

My instructor at the School of Refresher Flying at Stubby was Colin Lamont. however I have no record of what he got up to after I left...

P2 Lamont was my instructor (on Harvards) at Finningley when I came back in in summer '49. Nice chap - almost certainly the same man.

Green Flash (#284),
...Somewhen before 1959 my father witnessed a Meteor accident near York. He lived south of York airfield and his attention was drawn one day to the sound of a jet aircraft above the overcast. A Meteor appeared, diving vertically at what appeared to be full throttle and went in with a terrific bang next to a railway line...

I would hazard a guess that the three-needle altimeter had claimed another victim.

A2QFI (#291),
...Don't forget the decoding of the PUNDIT beacons!...
A wartime tale (Tee Emm ?) told of a character who came upon a Pundit one dark night, orbited it a couple of times waiting for the ident - and then realised it was his port wingtip light !

alecoc (#277),
...Secondly, the double fatality night at Westonzoyland, where I was flying myself...

Dennis Kenyon (#304), for Alecoc,
...Having just joined the associated thread on: ... see ... 'The Night it Rained Meteors,' I'd like to make contact with Alecoc as I was also flying that night of Feb12th 1954 when FOs Tilley & Fry were lost along with three Meteor aircraft. Sadly one surviving pilot of that night was lost a few days later over the River Severn.

I'm the guy who managed to force land a Mk7 alongside the blocked runway in fog conditions and as mentioned on the other post, I've been asked to write an article about that occurrence at Weston Zoyland...

For a (grimly amusing) take on the aftermath of that night, read my Posts (on "Pilot's Brevet", p.197 #3931 and #3939.

But they were great days !

Danny42C.

Danny42C

30th Dec 2016, 14:49

A2QFI (#1),

A re-entrant in 1949, I did a short conversion Course on the Meteor at 203 AFS, Driffield (24.1.50 - 12.3.50). Got 15 hours in on them (then naturally, they posted me onto 20 Squadron, with Vampires). Was ever thus.

Yes, they were horrendous. My story of those early days starts on "Gaining a R.A.F Piot's Brevet in WWII" Thread, p.165, #3299, and there is a lot of good stuff right through till p.168, #3347, where I describe (IMHO) a major cause of the 'slaughter of the innocents'. It was soon after the war. Life was cheap, there were plenty more Bloggs where this one came from, flying's dangerous, we all know that, so what's the problem ? (serves you right, shouldn't 've joined if you can't take a joke).

(Curiously, then as now, written on a New Year's eve four years ago. Then as now, a Happy New Year to PPRune CyberCrewroom and all who dwell therein).

Danny42C.

PS: Started this two hours ago, went to sleep (old men do that), and as daughter out shopping not disturbed, sorry....D.

Prangster

30th Dec 2016, 18:35

Wasn't Norman Tebbit a Meteor driver? I seem to recall him giving an interview where he acknowleged the high loss rate then added ,'the air staff considered fighter pilots to be expendable' just rhetoric or an official position?

Old-Duffer

30th Dec 2016, 20:19

It's not quite like that.

Norman Tebbit was a Meteor pilot and was injured in an accident in same.

As to the expendable fighter pilot bit, Churchill asked about the heavy rate of accidents and was assured in a response from a civil servant that the rate was not something to be concerned about.

Evidence suggests that there were more accidents practising asymmetrics than happened for real. Then of course there's the spiral dive - but that's another story.

O-D

brakedwell

31st Dec 2016, 15:53

I can recommend Meteor Boys by Steve Bond (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meteor-Boys-Steve-Bond/dp/1910690260), which was published a couple of months ago.
Norman Tebbit has written an account on his time in the RAF.

Wander00

1st Jan 2017, 15:10

O-D - Practice assymetric - similar for the Canberra I guess

Fareastdriver

1st Jan 2017, 16:14

O-D - Practice assymetric

I think the problem in the early fifties was that the Air Staff, who had to make the decisions about training were all of the piston engine era. The reliability of jet engines hadn't registered with them so engine out situations were at the forefront of jet training so most of the practise asymmetric accidents were in flying training. The operational squadrons flying Meteors didn't have the same problem because generally their asymmetric flying was, very infrequently, for real.

By the sixties this attitude had changed as I know from my own flying training. During the Provost T1 stage a 'Fanstop' was quite normal just after takeoff. On Vampires I never had the throttle pulled on me just after take off because there was no need and anyway, if all else failed it was 'If in Doubt, Bang Out'.