Getting past the Gate Keepers

[Rumour Control]

Well I take the time to write a really positive letter of application and include references and all other supporting documentation and address it to 1 person in particular, ie Capt **********, with 'Private;In confidence' clearly marked on the front of the envelope only to recieve a totally illegible 'pp' reply from some one who probably has not got the slightest clue what an aeroplane even looks like.

This makes me so angry. What gives these jumped-up admininstrators/clerks the right to open mail which is clearly not addressed to them? Do they even understand even the slightest thing about aviation or what is invloved in getting a job? In fact, do they not even have the slightest respect for their peers?

I have never come across an industry where people who are just so 'ordinary' are so lost in there own puffed-up importance and hold such incredulous positions of 'authority'. The only other industry that comes even slightly close is politics; and even MP's have regular clinics where they meet constituents face to face.

Just to compare. I have a meeting on May 28th with the directors of Business Council UK who are interested in our company services; we are going to discuss how best we can provide network installation and support for companies they have on a particular scheme. Now, we are talking about a lot of money here and also a lot of responsibility, I also konw that we are not the only company in the frame, but my point is that we are talking to the proper people and they are keen to communicate with us. In fact every company we deal with we are talking to the appropriate decision maker. Is this just too difficult for an airline? I would be most annoyed if I had staff who replied on my behalf, without consultation.

I really am lost for words. Whilst I guessed this was going to be the response I certainly expected a reply from some-one a little better placed than a YTS. What more can I say?

[paul-g]

What can I say but to agree with your every point. I also sympathise with the recruiting captains because of the sheer quantities of mail they receive. In order to give anything like a response they have to delegate it to somebody else. Unfortunately that person is rarely respectful to the efforts that you've had to put in.

But as you read through these posts, miracles DO HAPPEN. I wish I spoke from personal experience but I know several people who have got themselves 'dream' jobs in this industry. I hate and love these people - for getting the job and for giving me motivation (in that order).

Don't give up though because it seems nobody gets an easy ride. And it doesn't sound any better when you're in because every time you want a change of seat or more levers to pull you're going to get the same treatment.

I found I got spectacular results when I tried 'highly creative' methods of application. I can't divulge these as they're my trade secret but listen to nobody who tells you there is a rigid format to applications which if not followed you'll never be heard. That's just not true in my experience.

Best of luck

P.S. try addressing the gatekeeper directly

[actjag]

Well, I hope for one that I never have to fly with such an arrogant wannabe.

You obviously have NO idea as to how airlines are run, or how they do their recruitment.

You are the weakest link....GOODBYE!

[ROTATION]

Ditto,

I thought the "don't these little people realise how important I am" attitude went out ages ago.

[GJB]

I think "RUMOUR" has a point. After taking time and effort to research an airline, address your CV / letter to the right person, it can be quite dissappointing to receive a standard 'PP'd' letter in response.

But it is not just the airline industry - let me assure you of that.

It is also true that someone other than the captain will open such mail and respond to you, due to the sheer volume of CV's arriving daily.

My best advice is, don't let these things dis-hearten you.

Instead, write a short note in response, thanking them for their letter.

[This message has been edited by GJB (edited 02 May 2001).]

[Rumour Control]

Actjag & Rotation.

You appear to have both completely misunderstood what I said. My letter was clearly marked Private; In confidence thus implying it was intended only for the addressee. Both of you are quick to condemn and lacking in constructive comments. How would you deal with such a response?

To further clarify the matter, the addressee is not involved directly in the recruitment process but has considerable influence. What annoys me is the manner in which correspondence is 'intercepted' and then dealt with in a manner, which I feel is not acceptable and all too often common in this industry.

By the way I am not arrogant, I've been involved in aviation now for over 20 years now, so possibly I do know a little something. As for little people, enough said.

To adopt the catchphrase of someone who thrives on an arrogant attitude implies a certain admiration of arrogance or is it maybe an inability to be creative... Not funny or clever. By the way, its all an act.

I just wanted to comment on how sycophantic the industry can be and is not better demonstrated than in the recruitment process.

GJB. The wheels are already in motion and the necessary actions have been done.

[ickle black box]

A little trick, if you write the address on the front of the letter by hand, and try to make it look like a personal letter, it may well be passed to the person directly, as admin probably won't open letters which are clearly personal.

ickle

[DouglasDigby]

Sorry to say that the personal touch will often get the impersonal reply.

[This message has been edited by DouglasDigby (edited 02 May 2001).]

[HalesAndPace]

Ickle, not in our company.

[Merlin]

Try picking up the phone and offering to send a fax or emailed copy of your covering letter and c.v. It will 'break the ice' with your prospective employer and enable you to get a name to ask for in person at a later date. People have very short memories and don't like to admit that they have forgotten who you are or what they said! Call back a few weeks later and suggest that they had told you to call back because they might have some more information for you? Worked for me, good luck!

[gdb1973]

Well, A friend of mine got a job some years ago by hanging around airports and nearby bars trying to strike up a friendship with serving pilots!

It worked, too. Nothing like a recommendation from a trusted employee!

[Tor]

Anyway,

Getting past the gate keepers, easy go there and deliver the mail yourself.

[Whirlybird]

Rumour Control,

This is not aviation in particular; this is life. You wrote a letter which wasn't particularly private or confidential, but was an application for a job. You thought by marking it as confidential it would make a difference, but you're far from the first person to try that stunt. In any large company secretaries and so on are instructed to open all mail, including letters like yours; can you then blame them for doing so? You sound as though you haven't applied for a lot of jobs, either in or out of aviation. If you had you wouldn't be wasting time getting angry, or posting this here. You'd accept that this time you lost. You'd then be sending out hundreds of applications, trying every trick in the book, knowing that some would fail, but that by sheer persistence you'd make it eventually. And, frankly, if I was an employer I'd interview the person who showed persistence, and not touch the complainer with a bargepole. And I may not be an expert in aviation recruitment, but I used to work as an occupational psychologist in a team who, among other things, advised people how to apply for jobs, so I have some idea what I'm talking about.

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

[Pontius]

Have you actually checked to see if the addressee did not personally open the letter? It may well have been the case that he did open it, but being a busy little bee, asked one of the admin staff to reply to you.

In many ways you are fortunate. Some companies are rude enough to not even bother acknowledging letters, so even if it was a 'standard' reply at least they bothered to write back.

I wouldn't get too wound up by this. There really are lots of VERY busy senior pilots/management pilots in this business and they genuinely don't have time to sit there signing letters all day (some have even been known to fly). Likewise, don't be too patronising about the support staff. Someone once told me that was the first and one of the most important people you want to befriend when you walk in for your interview.

But after all is said and done, can you be sure about my first sentence?

Chin chin,

Pontius

------------------
You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!

[RVR800]

These guys get 100s of c.v.'s a year
It is their job to fly aeroplanes not desks!
They have to filter..


[This message has been edited by RVR800 (edited 03 May 2001).]

[Rumour Control]

Guys, thanks for all the replies, some interesting comments.

Point of interest. Whirlybird, if secretaries are instructed to open mail then how do the people who matter know how to distinguish between the person who showed persistence, and not touch the complainer with a bargepole? Perhaps I am missing something.

Just to clarify the situation a little further, I wrote directly to the intended Captain as he had expressed an interested in me (yes, me) previously. Consequently, and maybe knieively, I expected/anticipated that it would be read and responded to by himself.

On investigation it is apparent that he has not had sight of this correspondence, hence the thread. I understand that pilots fly and that the further up the management ladder you go the less you fly, but still my point is that if a letter is marked accordingly then the addressee should at least be consulted as to what action to take.

[PFO]

I am now going to keep this top idea to myself!

Cheers

PFO

[This message has been edited by PFO (edited 05 May 2001).]

[Cruise Alt]

What a top idea PFO. I think I will try that one.

Having talked to a few of these gatekeepers it would seem that while some are very knowledgeable on the pilot recruitment subject many do not know much at all. Wouldn't it help the busy manager if they trained them up a little to, say, distinguish between, hours on a 737 and hours on a C152? This way as wannabees we would feel that we were being considered on our achievements to date and, more importantly for the airline, the decision maker was being fed the applications he would like to see. Just an idea. Now back to photocopying while dreaming of that job!

[This message has been edited by Cruise Alt (edited 04 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Cruise Alt (edited 04 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Cruise Alt (edited 04 May 2001).]

[Hot&Heavy]

That's aviation. We're all in the same boat. Deal with it.