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wot_tha
25th Oct 2002, 05:10
Is anyone else getting tired of seeing VB fighting their battles in the Media. This is the latest little PR stunt on their website.

http://www.virginblue.com.au/announcements/bankers.html

I don't want to read their little squabbles everytime I log on to buy a ticket or open a newspaper. What is the public supposed to do anyway, jump up and down with banners outside the Sydney Airports office or something....I doubt they will? What are they trying to achieve other than another free advertising campain in the media.

Stop sooking guys and grow up. If you want to play in the big league then fight your battles where all other buisnesses do, through negotiation or in the courts.

Sir Shiraz
25th Oct 2002, 06:13
Just aired my views to ALlan Moss in the following email....

Keep up the good work Allan,

don't let Virgin and there media juggernaught get you down. They say they are trying to keep the air fare whilst bagging millions and millions in profits since Ansett fell over

Regards

;)

elektra
25th Oct 2002, 06:43
Dear WOT THA¡¦.

Welcome to Prune.

As a newcomer you may not be aware of the aviation history behind the VB battles¡¦.

Briefly, since the early 1950¡¯s (when an other newcomer (Reg Ansett) stitched up Holyman¡¯s ANA and built an airline that could finally compete with TAA) until 2001, that¡¯s around 50 years, there¡¯s been a regulated duopoly (or more recently near-monopoly. The regulation has taken many forms. It has been necessary (safety regulation) explicit (e.g. devious but effective Two Airline Policy import licences), implicit (the might of incumbents scaring off new starts), back door (e.g. government travel only going to ¡°big¡± carriers), illegal or immoral (e.g. Hawke assistance to the airlines in 1989/90 with fast track visas, subsidies to the airlines, removal of landing fees, media barrage etc etc) and mean-minded (Brereton¡¯s 11th hour decision to stop Air New Zealand entering Australian markets).

Some of the less desirable forms of regulation have been driven by many imperatives including the need to privatize Qantas, the desire to support Bob¡¯s ¡°mates¡± (who were doing a truly inspired owner/demolisher job on Ansett) and latterly the need to help sell the carcass of AN to the highest bidder when Sir Peter and Rupert wanted out.

But the biggest area identified by Professor Hilmer in his report on competition was Access to Infrastructure. And for an airline that means gates, runways, CRS and access to airport facilities such as roads and car parks. If you don¡¯t free up these, a new airline HAS NOTHING. Gareth Evans (then Minister) promised in 1987 that this would all be fixed but that was Gareth (¡°I did not have an affair with that woman!¡±).

So¡¦.if VBs loud media protestations are helping redress a half a century of government meddling, over-regulation and monopoly then good luck to them. This all means jobs and cheaper travel, surely two issues close to all our hearts.

wot_tha
25th Oct 2002, 07:04
Dear Elektra

Thank you for the history lesson. I am however far from a new comer to the industry or PPRUNE. Just time for a name change.

I don't disagree with what you said, just I wish they would take their squabbles to court or the negotiation table rather than in our faces all the time. Do you see Coles/Myer or BHP or any other large company (and they (VB) are a large company) taking there problems to the public arena. My point is I am tired of their cheap PR stunts and public bickering in the media. Most other companies PAY for their advertising.

However I don't wish them any bad fortune. They give jobs to hundreds of my collegues and after the last year or so, thats a good thing. My point, grow up and start acting a little professionally.

tifters
25th Oct 2002, 13:56
Wot_tha

Now what do you think the pollies will listen to, yes the people who vote for them, ie the public. It is just smart P.R to target this arena.
Elektra gave us a good understanding of what they(VB) are up against in as far as the pollies go, so the only thing they will listen to is votes!!!!!
VB has used "The Battler" image well coz thats what we Aussies love, yes there is a limit but im sure they know that.
Good luck to all and good onya VB......

wot_tha
26th Oct 2002, 01:21
Ok if that's the case, where's the public protests and rallies outside airport terminals, Parliament House etc.

CitizenXX
26th Oct 2002, 04:30
wot_tha, I'm with you. I'm sick to death of seeing and hearing the VB rubbish and what a rough deal they get from everybody.

If you want to play with the big dogs, you have to be able to pi$$ in the long grass!

Big Hairy Potatoes
26th Oct 2002, 10:51
I'm a little bamboozled by the way people in the airline industry have been completly brain washed by the people that operate or own major infarstructure. If we went somewhere to buy an item off anyone and could'nt barter on the price but were told, that's how much it's going to cost you because that's what people have been paying for years, you would go off your tits and say it was wrong, are'nt we being a bit hypocritical

Icarus2001
26th Oct 2002, 11:26
Big Hairy, you mean when like you buy petrol, milk, a new car, buy or sell and house(try negotiating with a real estate agent on their fees), a hamburger and so on. Face it, the ACCC et al do nothing. Those with the power will always use and abuse it then call it market forces.

Welcome to aviation, now bend over.

Padlock Woomera...

wot_tha
26th Oct 2002, 11:56
Icarus2001 I don't understand why you say padlock. This is quite fair and open discussion, no one is abusive. Opinions are free for all on this forum as long as no one pushes the line and so far I don't see that anyone has. Carry on I say..........

tightcannon
26th Oct 2002, 17:06
right you lot here is the gospel arcording to the pissed

1. Virgin is a great company to work for
2. Since Lone Pine (If you have to look it up try anzac)
we as pilots have been fighting for a fair deal
3. Why is it Australians always knock the battler
so?????
how many of you have
a) only bought australian vege's
b) only bought australian cars
c) only bought australian clothes made from aussie wool
d) only bought australian DAP's instead of Jepp's
e) only bought from a shop that employ's aussies
in the last six months?????????????????????
So it seams to me that all of you that knock VB
are
aa) SCABS
ab) Not or will not be considered for interviews
ac) To far stuck up your own a--se that you really think that a CRJ, M23, DHC8, EMB120, S340 really equalls a 737 ( and yes I know we only gross 70T for all you better aviatiors)

ad) so of you really want to support Aussie then which airline in Australia is 100% Aussie????????????

CitizenXX you are scum (yes scum) you really want to see what doing a days work for a days pay is like I hope you wake up one day and see what the real world is like.

wot_tha: the only way to increase power is to use the media, yes VB do it well but I think you should see what the ratio of VB vs QF is in column cm's for the last 6 months.

Sir Shiraz: since Ansett fellover", mate I would have lost my job as Anscab fell over, thank Christ I joined VB before that, Anscab fell over due greed and poor management, you are a pilot and therefore a manager??????????????????

NOW AS FOR THE REST OF YOU DO NOT LET THE WEAK AS P--SS GUIDE YOU JUDGEMENT,

THE MEDIA IS THE ONLY POWER WE HAVE LEFT.

IF THAT POWER IS WHAT WE NEED TO KEEP THE ******S HONEST THEN SO BE IT, IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE THEN YOU ARE A FOOL.

PROOVING POINTS

1. A MATE OF MINE CAN NOT EVEN GET MSN MESSENGER IN SINNGERS

2. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME A POLLY MADE FRONT LINE NEWS FOR BAD CONDUCT

3. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THE ANSETT LEVY WAS BROUGHT UP

4. WAS N KELLY REALLY A BUSHRANGER

5. IF LUCAS HIEGHTS IS JUST RESEARCH THEN HOW COME WE AS A NATION ARE NUK CAPAPABLE

Right I am off to bed and happily pi--ed
for those of you away from home,

The beer was cold

the girls were great( two ph no's)
the music was 60-70-80-90's

For those who do not work for VB or NJ or QF or Impulse keep you chin up as the dispute is nearly over due natural attrition and those of us who remember the 80's look forward to flying with you in the 73, 76, 77., 74, 17 and Airbus.
For those of you who put down VB, QF Impulse and Nj just remember that you are being watched.?????????????????? PPRUNE and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

wot_tha
26th Oct 2002, 22:49
Tightcannon, assuming it's your day off tomorrow, maybe you should just go and have another beer. If not, a sick day might be in order.

Your comment about QF vs VB in column cm's in the media. I am assuming you are implying QF have a larger presence. That is probably entirely correct. That is because they PAY for their advertising. VB can buy the whole goddam newspaper if they want to PAY for it.

Funny, the original topic always seems to get lost in the crap. I think it was "Are VB a bunch of sooks" and are you sick of seeing them winging in the media?

Gnadenburg
27th Oct 2002, 00:38
Tightcannon

Drunk behind the wheel and drunk behind the keyboard. Which is the more dangerous? Depends whose watching! What a half assed and cowardly threat to ppruners your last comment is.

What were Aussie airline pilots fighting for in 1915? I know about Lone Pine but fail to draw a relevant comparison.

Australia nuclear capable? Assume you mean the bomb? Where was our source of weapons grade material? Or did we steal it off our allies like Israel?

Your vitriolic scab comments makes me assume your life was turned upside down in 89. I certainly hope your bitterness not spurned from a late nineties knockback or lack of opportunity from Ansett.

Congratulations on your two phone numbers last night. Trolling externally? Assume you have already cut a swathe through the ranks of VB flight attendants.

To my many friends in VB, must be a long trip to Perth next to LOOSECANNON.

Sir Shiraz
27th Oct 2002, 03:18
My Goodness....I haven't laughed so much since Aunt Mable caught her left tit in the .........

;)

gravy
27th Oct 2002, 07:23
You do nothing to enhance the image of Proffesional pilots. W

amos2
27th Oct 2002, 08:25
...listening to this donkey and his mate Canon, do you think they might both be diagonally parked in a parallel universe? ;)

maximus
27th Oct 2002, 10:14
Parallel Universe........Amos, I think you're being a little kind there. I suppose Cannon can use the alcohol as an excuse, but Gravy??? They seemed to have turned F#ckwittery from a science into an art form.

Buster Hyman
27th Oct 2002, 11:48
So, is the topic now; VB bunch of DRUNKEN sooks ?? :p

E.P.
28th Oct 2002, 10:33
GravyTM

Look to the banner left screen for the correct spelling

of "Professional" and to any post by yourself or Cannon for an

example of "Unprofessional".

My image of Cannon is of a kid who say, 12 months ago, was a

C-152 CAPTAIN whose Daddy bought him a 737 endorsement and

now his ego (and pimples) have exploded.

Zone 5
2nd Nov 2002, 11:54
Cannon, I didn't have that bad an opinion of VB when I started trolling this thread.....

If you can refrain from posting any further I might be able to hang on to that perception.

TIMMEEEE
2nd Nov 2002, 20:35
With the small minded attitude VB displays by grieving their complaints as billboards painted on the side of aircraft then their stature as been seemingly professional in the business community as well as the public suffers.

Sure, they may have been dealt a raw deal with SACL but then again aren't nurses,fireman and police shafted to a much greater extent??

If its good enough for other entrants to pay the same then why should VB be any bloody different?
The public is starting to get the shits with all the whingeing.

Besides, why dont those pratts running the show display some compassion to their pilots and staff and pay them what they are worth, construct a decent EBA that is worthwhile and not an insult to the pilot group.

Sure alot of other people in Oz have been shafted but they dont go to the shameless extent that VB does.

Godfrey/Huttner/Corrigan (Chris, you strike breaker and proponent of using $cab labour) - why dont you guys get your own house in order and pay your troops what they are worth and stop whining non-stop about Macquarie Airports or whoever.

Or is it all you think they are worth you gents?
I reackon the bunch of bankers are you three guys.

HGW
3rd Nov 2002, 09:48
Timmee

Are the people who are getting the shits the two million people flying on VB or just you and the other ex AN people.

It is a pity that the nurses and doctors haven't got a forum such as an aircraft to write the complaints on, maybe something would be done.

Maybe VB should act professionally like Solomon Lew - Coles, and the NRMA. I get the shits with Coles and Lew's ads on the radio and newspapers as I have nothing to do with Coles.

We all, as potential users of any airline have a vested interest in what VB achieves by it's campaign no matter how different or chidish it seems to be.

My mail says it has worked. Watch the news mid-week.
Hopefully, it will see the last bullcrap comment from you.

betedete
4th Nov 2002, 01:22
HGW

Couldn't have said it better myself. :D

Buster Hyman
4th Nov 2002, 02:09
Maybe VB should act professionally like Solomon Lew - Coles, and the NRMA :eek:

Now there's a level of professionalism DJ can aspire to!!!:rolleyes: I hate riding in a taxi with advertising, let alone an aircraft!

The pax getting the shits are from, roughly, the 1,999,992 that I don't know, because 8 I know are getting the SHlTS!!;)

TIMMEEEE
4th Nov 2002, 20:15
HGW and BETEDETE.

So you are saying that you are both happy with the way VB have handled their pilots EBA to date and are happy with your current pay/conditions??
Or is it you both enjoy working 22 days a month rather than have the company set up decent rostering principals where you could go away on a 3 day trip and fly something like 15-20 hours stick and get more days off at home whilst not degrading productivity???

Sounds like both you guys need a decent dose of reality or see life through rose-coloured glasses - especially seeing as Sir Richard blows into town and talks about how profitable his airline is and what a great investment VB turned out to be.

What a blatant insult to whats largely a group of good pilots that deserve better pay, treatment and consideration.

From what Ive both seen and heard you two are the minority.

As for the hypocrisy of the anti-Macquarie advertising, was not Chris Corrigan (50% owner) himself a merchant banker in a previous life before he shot to fame and fortune by using $cab labour to break dock-side strikes???

To HGW and BETEDETE my comments to VB of stopping the whingeing about Macquarie and look after your staff still stand.