Northcoast Aviation in PNG

[Lake Evil]

Gday, just wondering if anyone has any contact or other information on Northcoast Aviation in PNG, and what their requirements may be.

Cheers

[OzExpat]

North Coast Aviation
PO Box 710
Lae MP
Papua New Guinea

Phone +675 472 4247
Fax +675 472 2866

Manager Brad Potts (I think)
Chief Pilot Geoff Thiele

Don't know their requirements these days but, as you don't say what sort of experience you have, best to just contact them direct. If you're on minimum time with basic CPL, I don't fancy your chances and, in any event, you'll need to have completed a Dangerous Goods Awareness Course.

Hope this helps.

[Lake Evil]

Thanks OzExpat,
does indeed help, much appreciated

Lake Evil

[Waghi Warrior]

LAKE EVIL,
If you are an MBA cadet, or have been, don't bother about applying. I also believe it would be a good idea to go up and have a look, provided that you have over 1000 Hrs TT with some twin time. Another thing that some guys have done in the past, is whilst in POM, they have went into CAA and done the air leg exam.

At present, GA in PNG is at rock bottom. What seems to be happening, is that all the operators are pulling out of the bush, and a lot of areas are not being serviced. This is due to the Kina, and the ever continuining problem with airstrip conditions, ie lack of maintenance. If someone started up with an Islander or a C-206, and had a reasonable amount of cash to back them up to get started, and had no huge dramas within the first 12 months of operations, they would be sitting on a gold mine. The grass roots people have the cash to travel, but most can't because they have no airservice.

[Johhny Utah]

I wouldn't recommend anyone go to North Coast Aviation. Especially if you haven't been flying in PNG & been able to gain some experience with one of the bigger operators, to see how things should be done, rather than the way NCA would like things to be done...

As for the ex MBA cadets - I don't think that you will have much competition there, as most of the guys who were serious about taking the option of going to North Coast Aviation have been down that road & now departed for much bigger & better prospects elsewhere. I dare say that if you asked them if they would recommend NCA then the answer would probably be a resounding NO!

There are various problems with the setup at NCA, and unfortunately most of them seem to stem from the CP. In the past he has gone out of his way to create disharmony with the pilots, thereby making an already unpleasant situation (i.e. living in PNG) absolutely woeful... It is a shame, because the other management, BP & especially Mike, are pretty good blokes but have to deal with all of these otherwsie unnecessary dramas.

As for lurch's comment that for new hires i think geoff really needs a couple of years out of ya to make sum money otherwise he spends all his time just training new guys - if there is anyone out there who would seriously contemplate spending a few years in PNG, then all I can say is either you've never been there, or the best of luck to you - cause you'll certainly need it...

A typical day at North Coast involves driving out to work through the worst part of Lae, along a stretch of road where people being held up/shot at is common occurrence, to arrive at work to a CP who will barely acknowledge your presence, or more likely be downright rude. Then getting in a high time, overworked & under maintained Islander/402, and driving it in & out of some of the worst strips you can possibly imagine. You do this for several sectors each day, then come back and once again drive back to Lae, through the same dangerous areas. This happens six days out of seven, and all for the princely sum of about K2200 per month. At current exchange rates, (K1 = 0.4269 AUD) that means you are risking your life & limb, both flying & just getting to & from work, for the princely sum of AUD $940 per month :eek:

If you are prepared to make a huge sacrifice to your lifestyle, personal safety & general well being, then maybe NCA is just what you're looking for. Otherwise, I'd have to strongly recommend you give NCA as wide a berth as possible...

[Waghi Warrior]

Jez Johnny,
That was nice, anything that you would like to add ! What you've got to remember, that NCA is an entry level company, not Qantas. As far as GT, not liking MBA cadets, well I'd be pi$$ed off to if some one left me high and dry, after waiting 3 months for a work permit, then getting a call from Aus, saying, "Oh, sorry Geoff, I've go another job, see ya". I know of quite a few pilots whom have worked for NCA and are now flying bigger and better things, and none of these guys have had a big dummy spit as Johnny has here.
Anyone thinking about going to NCA to work, just ignore little Johnies negative post, as this forum is not here to sledge people, or organisations.
:D

[Johhny Utah]

Waghi, since you are abviously so in touch with what is going on with NCA, perhaps you could let us all know when you worked for them? I'd suggest that if it wasn't in the last 6-12 months, then maybe you've been out of the picture for a little while & aren't actually aware of what has been going on over in Lae...

I'm only too aware of the problems that NCA have had with people taking leave to come to Australia, and then not returning. I don't agree with their actions, but I also think that things could have been handled better on the NCA front. I have also heard from other employers that they actually suggested ways of better managing the staff problems to management at NCA, but they all went unheeded...:confused:

NCA have caused themselves innumerable problems by seemingly going out of their way to antagonise their staff just before they go on leave. To me, that seemed a bit foolish, and was no doubt a factor in influencing some employees not to return. Also, when staff were open & honest with the CP about why they were planning on taking leave to go south (i.e. airline interviews), the CP reneged on his earlier word that he had no problems with staff taking leave for airline interviews & attempted to cancel all leave. As the classic saying goes - "All leave has been cancelled until morale improves..." - and that seemed to be the modus operandi of NCA staff management...:( Basically, when staff tried to do the right thing & give the CP 4 weeks notice they got harshly treated, so why would anyone bother trying to do the righty, I ask you...?

The problems at NCA are too long to list. :( If anyone has any serious thoughts of going up there, feel free to email me & I will quite happily give you more details. And for the record, I have moved on to bigger and better things (i.e. flying jets). To anyone who decides to give NCA a shot - good luck, 'cause you'll sure need it...:eek:

[Herc Jerk]

In my experience, anyone who is prepared to spend the time to slander a company/person in the manner above is soley displaying personal issues/bitterness. Keep in mind that there are always two sides to a coin and three sides to every argument- yours, theirs and the truth.

HJ

[bitter balance]

Herc Jerk, there is always (at least) two sides to every story, but I wouldn't discount Johnny Utah's that easily.

I usually have very little tolerance to people bashing companies/individuals on PPrune, but from what I've seen recently - NCA haven't helped their cause much.

[Grypen]

[caveat - I have never worked for NCA, I just know lots of others who have]

I don't mind putting my name in print to say this, but DON'T go and fly with NCA unless you want to be screwed by management four ways from Sunday.

Whilst the first lot of ex-MBA cadets DID shaft NCA, subsequent pilots that went there did not, but were instead themselves shafted on trying to get leave, fly south for interviews, you name it.

PNG, quite frankly, sucks, and the stories of hold ups and shootings are NOT exaggerated. Lae and Port Moresby are the worst places on Earth to live, and compound that with dodgy CPs and atrocious aircraft and you have a rather dangerous and $ h 1 t t y lifestyle!

Not worth it unless you don't care about your wellbeing and future prospects; those that have made it to bigger things were talented to begin with and went there without knowing the consequences, you have that advantage now so use it.

Jobs and places ARE usually what you make of them, but there are exceptions to that rule, and NCA is one of them.

AVOID.

[ edited for #$%^ content ;) ]

[Lake Evil]

No I am not an MBA cadet. I have been flying throughout Northern Aus for the last few years but am trying hard to get some good twin experience. I have heard in the past from Ex PNG guys that the conditions in PNG were pretty crap but the flying experience was invaluable and were glad in the end to have gone there.

Has anyone got any good or bad stories from there and maybe some info on what diffrent companies require for employment, Certainly info on some good places to have a cold beer or three and any survival tips.

[commondog]

NCA is a company that needs very careful consideration before undertaking a position with them. I wouldn’t suggest working for them until you have at least taken the time and effort to visit the company and seen the aircraft and the type of flying you will be doing. I did and I fully accepted the reality of what I was getting into. It is unique in every aspect to say the least as are the living conditions as an expatriate.

There are numerous aspects about NCA that have been highlighted above and I endorse without hesitation all that Johhny Utah and mark CRUISE have taken the time to comment on.

My own thoughts are similar and you should be very aware of what will be expected of you should you work for NCA.

Know that you will be taking off out of one way mountain bush strips, 80% of which after “your” V1 should you lose and engine you will die. I won’t apologise for the lack of subtlety because I’m merely stating hard facts. Yes it is the worst case scenario, but isn’t that what we consider as professional pilots every time we go to work.

Unfortunately the CP has proven time and time again that profit comes before safety when any such decision has to be made. Very sad indeed, but very true.

There are problems with mainly the CP’s attitude towards employees (the other two directors are more reasonable) and you will literally be pushing sh#t up hill with a sharp stick if you don’t adopt his flying techniques. These include and are certainly not limited to
-flying less than 500’ agl whilst at 10,000’. Certainly if an engine was lost without a suitable escape route you will plough in.
-flying IMC below LSALT in VFR rated aircraft using VFR only GPS on “made up IFR” tracks.
-not carrying mandatory fuel if any requirements exist. The CP said that we should just call up the agent on the HF for a WX report. Need I state that the agent is NOT an approved observer.
-the only radar is in Moresby so flying out of our base at Nadzab radio calls to tower and approach did not any way reflect our intentions or position.
-not being given a company operations/SOP manual and then being expected to know the content for base/line checks.
-flying single pilot IFR without an autopilot. I’m sure we’ve all done this but in most cases the aircraft is at least fitted with an autopilot that has gone U/S. Don’t think that this will stop DCA doing an instrument initial/renewal with you as this has been going on for over 5 yrs.
-flight and duty times being stretched beyond any semblance of the CAO requirements.

Surely any professional pilot at this stage would have had a minor (more likely major) coronary.

The list goes on and on and yes, I’m quite sure that we’ve all bent the rules to suit on occasions but when this becomes the norm you have to stop and evaluate what we are about. The flying is PNG is unique and you will need to adopt varied flying techniques, however all other RPT operators here work to precise procedures and standards, I guess it just makes it harder for those operators to compete when others aren’t working to the rules and are continuously getting away with it.

I make no apologies for what I have stated above. As I said before it is just the cold hard facts. Also as I stated previously I did know what I was getting into and I made a conscious and informed decision.

I have since made another conscious and informed decision.

I have purposely left any emotion out of this post as I only want Lake Evil to know the facts. The facts hurt and the saddest thing is that it need not be this way. There are numerous other operators in PNG that work in just as trying conditions with all that is involved in flying in PNG, and in some cases, direct competitors to NCA with the same aircraft. So why I ask, does NCA think that the level of safety, professionalism, customer service and every other aspect of aviation that an airline takes pride in, need not apply to them.

I have mainly pointed out the negative aspects and there are most certainly plenty of positive aspects to the flying. It is rewarding, definitely challenging and satisfying. You will fly over the most remote and extreme terrain in the most extreme wx conditions and fly into airstrips that should not be airstrips.

When do the negatives out way the positives? That my friend is a command decision that you as a pilot will have to make.

Please feel free to email me with any questions you may have as I have only really skimmed the surface in answer to your question

Regards

Jack

[Waghi Warrior]

If a lot of these things that you guys mention are true, (as I'm sure they are), why not write a letter to OCA, and deliver it by hand to make sure it gets there. If you also have problems with the airworthiness of the aircraft, also write a letter to the airworthiness section as well. There are some people in OCA who will act, trust me ! Forget about CA 100's, go to the appropriate people who are policing the industry.

[1hitwonder]

crap


Hey Wahgi,

No offence. You must be very narrow minded or good friends with GT or both. Dont you think that OCA knows well and truely whats going on with NCA, surely they cant be that stupid or can they? Dont you think that OCA would of shut down NCA a veery long time ago. They have been doing IFR command renewals in VFR Islanders for over five years just like commonground has mentioned. They wont shut them down and never will. What will happen to all those poor village people and all that government revenue that gets pocketed.

After 10 aircraft accidents in around ten years, do you blame
NCA for these once common mishaps? Or do you blame the poorly trained pilots pressured into pleasing and doing favours for his new CP? Busting duty times, Overloading, IFR in VFR aircraft, Flying with malaria because theres no-one else to fly the plane, landing in some of the shortest strips in the world with leaking brakefluid faulty brakes, flying an Islander that will go through nearly 8 qts of oil a day in one engine etc etc etc. Either way somebody needs to get shafted, and ill bet you two dollars its always the pilots that will with NCA. Praise god somebody had the balls to stand up to the company. Hopefully others will follow too. Im no ex-MBA cadet, but from what I heard, they at least have a safety record now. No aircraft accidents since the inception of these delightful young men, who were trained to proper airline standard. Is it just me, or is it only NCA that seems to wanna do things their way. The profit making way. A very inhumane and inhospitable way. I feel for the pilots and the poor pax that have to deal with these unfortunate circumstances.Ask yourself this question Evil Lake...How desperate are you? Risking your life to the benifit of your logbook. There is certainly only so much one can take. Like others have mentioned, there are alot better operators in PNG. All the pilots I know say that the flying is invaluble and I couldnt agree more. Its because they have all learnt the true value of living. Ask them if they will ever go back and im sure you will hear some interesting answers. If you really feel the urge to take on an adventure, I suggest think carefully on what you choose. I hear Africa is great this time of year!!

Goodluck!!!!!!!!

[Chimbu chuckles]

WW

And who would that be?

PNG DCA/CAA/OCA or whatever they are called at the moment have NEVER EVER lifted a finger to enforce ANYF**KING thing in PNG....EVER!!!!

Well in the last 20 years anyway.

The only difference between now and pre 95 is that in those days we self monitored VERY well.

We were NOT perfect but in Talair we had generally good maintenance, excellent training/checking and good sops.

Chief Pilots of the caliber of Tony Skelton and Rod Marsland, while very practical, also maintained high standards through experience C&T Captains.

Autopilots, that worked, were rare on Bn2s(COD had a new Collins IFR suite including AP when I flew her in 1987/88), 402s and Otters but all the Bandits had them and they usually worked.

A/Ps are not essential equipment in Bongos/Otters anyway...sectors too short and 3000 hours handflying never hurt anyone...quite the contrary.

In Airlink we had serviceable A/Ps in all the 402s/404s/Twotters and Bandits, general maintenance was FANTASTIC pre eruption and Training budgets VERY generous....bordering on 'no expence spared'.

It's so sad the way PNG GA has gone in the last 8 years!

Not surprising unfortunately....just truly sad!

Chuck.

[Torres]

What an interesting thread! :D

Sounds exactly the same as PNG aviation in the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's and 1980's.

With GT and BP even the participants are the same. Are they still operating the same ex TAL aircraft?

:D :D :D

[sausageman]

Hey Waghi

What you've got to remember, that NCA is an entry level company, not Qantas.

How very perceptive.

Anyone thinking about going to NCA to work, just ignore little Johnies negative post, as this forum is not here to sledge people, or organisations.

Correct me if I'm wrong..(actually..don't! Your post haven't been remotely helpful to anyone anyway).. but didn't Lake Evil ask for a contact or ANY OTHER INFORMATION on NCA?

Johhny Utah has provided plenty of "other information".

If I were considering a position with NCA, I want to hear from those in the company, those out of the company, those who love it, and especially those who don't. I'm sure you'll agree JU has provided food for thought for anyone interested in NCA.


Sausage.


p.s. Lake Evil,.......... Commondog is spot on the mark.

[RYAN TCAD]

And all for less than 12 Grand a year? - F**K THAT! What a joke!

[Chimbu chuckles]

My starting wage in 1986 was PNGK16000.00 +accom+leave fare. In those days PNG16K equalled Aus24K.

In those days 24% was held back and given to you at the end of your contract at 2% tax. Good system...even then I think I was netting about PNGK200/wk...AUS$300 odd although the comparison is not that valid because the cost of living was a little higher in PNG...not a lot though.

But I was also saving PNGK3800+/year...>AUS$5700...and that is what it was worth because that money was spent in Aus.

So here we are 16 years later talking about a country that is very much more demanding to live in, where you are flying the same aircraft...and I mean the same ones(less those we crashed:D) not just the same types...for a lot less money. Tax is also much higher now in PNG than it was back then.

And they always ask for PNG experience when advertising for pilots...who do they think they're kidding besides themselves!!

Chuck.

[goilala mero]

Chimbu I know where you are coming from I started in 1996 with Air Manubada on K9500 per year and the company held back K50 every fortnight as a bond and gave it back at the end of the 2 year contract ,Iwas flying 206's in the jungles,drinking SP at the aero club ,old yaght club,firehouse,areanas and a few other places that don't matter any more.
They paid for our house ,car and electricity I was allways broke but I had a ball and made the most of it because at the end of the day I was a 700 hr vfr pilot who needed a job to get that experience as I didnt have $90 000 (or whatever)to spend on a pilot course to sit in the right seat of an Otter.
Lake evil my advise to you wuold be if you are interested in NCA go up and have a look if you like what you see and think you could do it for a couple of years take it if its offered but if you don't like it then don't take it because there is nothing worse than listing to a pilot bitch and winge about a job that is only intended to give them a start anyway...





Beware of the Lae PO

[Chimbu chuckles]

When I turned up in late Dec 86 I was a 350 hr pilot. In January 87, a week or so after arriving I was offered a full time job and by the time I had 450 hours, a month or so after starting, I was flying the Islander more than the C185.

I left in December 87 and joined Talair with 1200 hrs of which 600+ was Islander, and never looked back...within 18 months I had 2400 hours and was left seat Twin Otter and on about PNG30K(AUS$45K+)+house+transport to/from work+fed while at work+full ID travel+annual leave fare.

Every 3 years, until the PNG Govt abolished the Gratuity system in the mid 90s I picked up about PNGK23,000.00 and sent it south which equated to A$34000.00.

Those days were blissfull...the law and order problems were probably not a LOT better than now but we were payed well, flew well maintained aircraft(mostly) under an excellent C&T system and had LOTS of FUN:D

PNGK9500? Mac was a mate and I knew he wasn't paying big money but that's pathetic.

Chuck

[OzExpat]

I converted some ... errm LOTS ... of Kina to Oz dollars this morning at Westpac in downtown Port Morbid. To my absolute horror, found that each Kina was buying the princely :rolleyes: sum of 39 Oz cents... :eek:

I arrived in PNG at the end of March, 1984, when one Kina bought AUD1.33. I remember the rate going as high as AUD2.00 and I sure made a killing in those days! :) But those days are long, long gone and the Kina has been heading south faster than most of the local pollies. :(

Lake Evil ... when you come up here to check out the job and the conditions, also check the rate of exchange at a few banks. They will ALL always be slightly different from one another, but it'll give you an idea of what the pay will be worth in Oz dollar terms.

However, remember that NCA really IS an "entry level" company. They operate into difficult places and, sometimes, your days will be very long indeed. At other times, the weather will defeat you so completely that you'll be sitting in the office at Nadzab Airport drinking coffee all day long. But still being paid.

Remember too that you won't have any accommodation costs. The company will provide accommodation for you. You should NOT expect it to be flash or even luxurious, but you won't have to pay anything from your wages for it. Now think about what you might earn in a similar job in Oz and how much of that you pay out in rent.

You will, of course, be paying for your food at home and the average basket of groceries can be pretty expensive, if you go for top shelf name brands. However, as you'll undoubtedly be sharing accommodation with other pilots in the company, it's my guess that you'll all contribute toward the groceries ... you may, however, need a more formal arrangement with beer purchases tho! :D

Finally, I feel the need to say something about the hatchet job that's been done on this thread to GT, NCA's CP and a bloke I've known basically since my first day in country. He's always been a bit of a hard-ass, but he's been flying around the country for a VERY long time without major mishap.

I would suggest to you that, by doing things "his way" you are likely to live to a ripe old age. The final point is that, if you go in there looking for trouble, you'll find it with him. If you do the right thing by him, he will certainly do the right thing by you - he's not in the business of destroying aircraft or killing pilots, though I know of a few who sorely tempted him...:D

I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Herc Jerk]

Well said Oz and i'm glad you spoke up- this thread has been rankling me since i found it, but i have been holding my tongue lest i become just another mudslinger in an already dirty thread. Now i'll try and add something useful...:D

The Honorable CP of NCA- not everyone's cup of tea, but what you give so you shall receive, in buckets. Does not suffer fools nor whiners gladly but for those who go up there and get on with it he will give a grudging respect. Respect, no matter your personal opinion, is due to him- he has flown over 15k hrs in some of the harshest conditions on this planet. Simply put, he is doing something right. He may not really teach you, but YOU can learn from him. YOUR choice.

NCA is not an airline, nor does it pretend to be. It is kind of an entry level, bush operation where a young pilot, who is not a whinger or a ratbag to quote from the "potpurri of bush techniques", can cut his/her teeth and learn some serious survival skills and the ability to think on your feet at all times. Not all of it is what you would take back to an airline, but if you do it right personally, stay disciplined and stick to the techniques, plus have some luck on your side you will be well off wherever you go.

If you want to work for an airline NOW, desire 5star (or even 3 star) accomodation, want high pay with low TT, like to be pampered to, have a phobia of guns, "coloured" persons, potholes, bad smells, pigs, chickens, smoke in the crew room, steep mountains and/or tropical weather (to name a few) then i would advise you stay well clear of NCA. But if you are up for an adventure, a bit of learning, a lot of fun and don't pack too many pre-conceptions, then buy a ticket to Lae and see what you think. BTW it used to be that you had to go up there under your own steam before any chance of getting a job... any one confirm?

Now my last bit before i PO (not that PO you lechers)- i work now in some of the ****tiest parts of this globe (no violins please)- make PNG look like kindy, yes hercs, yes warzones, yes certainly not everyones cup of tea but MORE IMPORTANTLY i am priveledged enough to work with these old war dogs (who would bag me for saying that:)) some of whom date back to Air America (not at all the movie) and the wars in between- serious heavy metal operators. Now don't get me wrong, i have trouble tying my shoelaces, but what i learnt at NCA has been an invaluable help in holding my own in the company of a group of professionals of such experience i didn't even know still existed years ago when i left Aus.

So take my words also with a grain of salt- they are but my humble and often ignorant opinion. If nothing else, i hope that i have helped even the tables a bit more for Capt Mutley and His Band of Merry Men up there in Lae.

HJ

PS my apologies in advance to anyone who feels the need to discuss my post with me right now, in a few hours i am off to feed the needy 20 tonnes at a time- for the next 3 months, so just hold that thought...:D

[Chimbu chuckles]

Lake Evil,

The best advice of this thread comes from Ozexpat and HJ.

PNG has always been what YOU made of it.

While the pay and general conditions are NOT what they were the flying hasn't changed one wit.

IFR sans A/P has always been more the norm than the exception in PNG.

'Personal LSALTs' were something I, and more than a few others I suspect, used when needed. HOWEVER they were calculated properly, using all the approved splays + buffers. I had one from overhead Lake Trist to Lae which required me to be VISUAL over the Lake and above a certain height + Lae NDB working before going IMC...but it was legal and safe...and got me home a few times when the other options were less so or at least very time consuming! I used to fly Islander loads of day old chicks to Madang and had a simple system of DME distances and VOR radials from Madang to keep me in the middle of the Ramu until I picked up the NZB aids which allowed me to fly IFR at a personal LSALT probably 6000' lower than the RNC Charts.

You worked them out YOURSELF and 'test flew' them in nice weather and they then became part of YOUR bag of tricks when the weather was Romeo Sierra.

All this before GPS hit the civil market!

I too have known GT for a LONG time, as well BP, Mike C and RL...none of them are bad guys but they have spent a life time in a system that bares no relation to the one in Australia...or even to the Territory. GT and RL between them probably have 40000 hours in PNG, I think I once heard that RL had 13000 hours just in his own C185...both have seen scores of pilots die and many more than that number of crashes...they don't want that to happen to you anymore than you do!

Go to PNG and spend a few weeks there...stay with the other NCA pilots and do a few flights in the copilots seat. That's the way it has always worked in PNG. You will either love it or hate it. If you love it and they think you are a reasonable dude they will give you a job.

If they give you a job work hard, listen hard and play hard, give your employer good value for the money they spend on you, don't bang up their aircraft, don't whinge about things too much, avoid people who do, DON'T DIE in PNG.

The vast amount of info available on this site, including pictures, should give you a vastly better idea about the place than those of my era...we just got on a QF flight and arrived without the faintest idea of what we were getting into...and the vast majority of us have not one regret.

An interesting thing occurred to me a few years ago. I arrived in Chimbu with a duffle bag over my shoulder, pilot's licence, a virtually empty logbook and about $10. Through the next nearly 13 years I married, had a child, aquired heaps of 'stuff', moved around all over PNG...but in the end thanks to divorce and the Volcanoes in Rabaul when I actually left PNG I didn't have a huge amount more stuff or money than when I arrived...but I had three full logbooks and a fourth on it's way.

And friends/memories that will be for life!

Chuck.

[aussiedigger]

Can anyone confirm their requirements are 1000TT with an instrument rating? Also, are there any other companies around that have similar requirements?

[Lake Evil]

Thanks lads, Sounds like a interesting adventure, I sure will give it a go. Thanks again for your info.

[OzExpat]

This is a very small country Bendigo and the industry has been hard hit over the last 10 years or so, because of the very poor rate of exchange between the Kina and the US dollar. For those who've been here and haven't heard, APNG (previously known as MBA) has closed its' operation at Tabubil. For those that don't understand the significance of this, the industry here is in decline... massively.

NCA is about the only one that a low-timer is ever likely to get a shot at here. Other GA companies are either smaller (with few opportunities for employment) or much bigger (with their own cadetships etc.).

Island Airways at Madang might be a possibility.
PO Box 747 Madang
Fax +675 852 2353

Vanair at Vanimo is about the only other one that you could try.
PO Box 167 Vanimo
Fax +675 857 1272

I'm not confident that either of these will have vacancies and am not up on their requirements. Thus, no guarantees, but a fax doesn't cost much to send. More of a gamble, financially, to come here as a visitor (ie tourist) and go see these companies, but you might get a better reception that way.

[Torres]

Interesting comment on wages. When I went to PNG in 1964 with Steamies my starting wage was ₤1,200 per year (now $2,400) – double the salary I left behind in Australia.

When I left Talair and PNG in 1985, my final salary was around K40,000 and an exchange rate of Aus$1.35 = NGK 1.00, still a princely sum by Aussie standards. We had ID travel and free accommodation but it was before the days of the perks - overseas school fees, gratuities etc.

Compares very favourably with my salary of $45,000 per annum as the first General Manager of Flight West Airlines.

[G.A. Boy]

I am currrently based in Lae living in the NCA compound working for another company. I have been here for 3 months now, and PNG is sure an adventure. The flying is the best you will ever do. The Yacht Club on a Friday night, cheep beer, Planet of the Apes if you so desire, all make it worthwhile. The biggest downside at the moment is the Kina exchange rate, as of tonight is .339.
Other than the drive to Nadzab to work every day, most days are fun and enjoyable.
AND NO I don't go to the Post Office!!!!!!!............YET

[Chimbu chuckles]

Planet of the Apes?

Is that a nightclub in Lae these days?

Ahh the Lae yachty...great spot on a Friday evening...although stories of Talair pilots urinating on patrons from upstairs, and throwing furniture at those that had the temerity to object are vastly exagerated:D

I do remember roaring back and forth on Marty Yardes new jet ski...causing great squealing from the yachty radios...and the assembled patronage...didn't stop us, or even slow us down from memory:D

Is Wissang still the agent at Wasu? Could tell some stories about her when she was a youngster:D

If so tell her high from Captain Chuck from Talair...well that's what she called me:o:D

Spent two years based in Lae 88/89....loved it!!

Still in those days there was little I didn't love about PNG..I was most assuredly unde her spell...and stayed that way for 10 more years!

Chuck.

[cleatus]

Lake Evil, the best advice from this post is come up & look for yourself. See where you will fly, where you will live & talk to those who are here at present. I dont fly for NCA, but have been on there routes & the flying is not for everyone. Yes you will find the pay very ordinary, but even the company Im with pays very poorly, in comparison to Australia.

But take a look at the exchange rate, & the rocket scientists who are running this country at present. The political system up here is designed for the elite few who get into parliment to loot & pillage. You would be suprised the amount of times I get asked when is Australia coming back to run the place. Enough of that though!

The time in your logbook & the general life experience is all good. Do take note of what some of the earlier posts on the forum say, as some guys were royally f#*ked by the company.

You are your own person, so it is entirely up to you to make up your mind!!

And yes personal safety is an issue, I, as I imagine others have, have been held up at gun point on the way to work in Lae. They took all our flying gear simply for beer money to watch the State of Origin. So consider all factors.

There is only so many times you want a shot gun in your face during your life. Ive now had it happen once, & had another attempted holdup on the way back from work within the last few months!!!!!

Come visit tropical paradise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DIVINE WIND]

LakeEvil,
It's an amazing place but even going back to the late seventies in our house, a .22 Berreta in a shoulder holster slung over the bed head every night,makes for an interesting life.I believe that weapon is now on the streets,great! But don't let me put you off I plan on heading back for a peek when I get the chance.
Good luck:cool:

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR EXPERIENCE

[lurch]

have you ever seen Richards' .357....now that puts Dirty Harry to shame :D, apparently he had a gun pulled on him once on his way to Nadzab...don't think he's had too many problems since ;)

[lurch]

a year down the track...whats the latest?
requirements? fleet etc?

[...still single]

Same fleet (bit older now), same routes, same management, same 40 minute drive out to Nadzab.
Talk of getting a fourth Bongo...
Not hiring right now, but who knows when the next pilot will leave?

[Pinky the pilot]

I fully support the comments by Chuckles, Ozexpat, Herk Jerk and a few others. I was in Moresby with Simbu when NCA took over their Moresby ops and found GT to be fair enough if you did your job and did'nt whinge about it.
I flew with him a number of times when he checked me for various routes and was never asked to do anything that I would have considered unsafe.
He certainly does'nt suffer fools gladly or otherwise for that matter.
Sadly; in the end it was me who let him down, something for which I still have'nt forgiven myself!
By all means Lake Evil; go there and have a look at the place. Follow the advice given by the above mentioned and I guarantee you will be well rewarded by the experience.


You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Willie Nelson]

I went over to Nadzab in Aug '00 to meet GT in the hope of securing employment.

Flying over to Nadzab blew me away, the scenery was unbelievable and some of the stories told to me by the then CP of Tropic Air in Morseby where incredible. Nice bloke PM.

On arrival GT told it to me like it was, he didn't dress it up from what I can gather and he made all conditions transparent. Unfortunately some of the earlier posts highlighting the aircraft deficiencies in terms of VFR capable (barely) doing IFR in cloud at dot feet going into the Kawbum valley through 20 mile gap are true. :(

When I asked GT about a recent accident that (from memory) was partly pilot error, contributed to by the fact that he was not checked into the said strip (from the horses mouth) as is required by regs. He said that this was water under the bridge unfortunately said pilot (I saw his picture on the back of the crewroom door) is no longer with us to agree.

I initially reasoned with myself that if GT can survive this long then surely if I follow his lead and listen to everything he said, I would be all right and in no time have a log book full of great experience on BN2's and C402's.

People have a funny way of being able to talk themselves into anything given a certain need or desire. When I spoke to another young bloke up there who believe it or not was trying to sell the place to me, I was informed of the amount of accidents that GT had been involved in, there but for the grace of God go I (or words to that effect) came to mind.

I had made my decision not to stay in a very short period of time based on an informed opinion first hand and with all the facts available to me.

I indicated this to GT and thanked him for his time. To this end he understood my reasons and appreciated my honesty, he then took me down to the local Golf club and together we had lunch and talked about some of the other more interesting aspects of PNG. To some extent I felt like a bit of traitor as G was quite a nice bloke in many respects, I do not however, regret my decision.

What I would like to know is whether the guy who was going to fly me back to Moresby in the 402 in the wee hours of the morning is still up there. He was owner of one or both of the 402's and had been living there since Adam was a boy. He carried some ridiculously large firearm wherever he went and was as deaf as a post. :uhoh:

Our departure preparation consisted of closing the rear door checking the fuel and subsequently having a complete lighting failure post start-up. We taxied out anyway (why I stayed in that plane I do not know) After several failed attempts to establish radio contact with Nadzab tower, old mate gave the game away.

I have tried to give as balanced a post as I could from first hand evidence. Make up your own mind (I am sure you probably have by now) keep in mind however that you do not have to do a deal with the Devil to get a break into twin flying. Two and a half years later with over 800 multi and on good money thank you very much I am living proof. :ok:

Willie

[troppo]

willie,
sounds like richard from kiunga av. to me...
the rediculously large firearm bit gives it away...puts dirty harry to shame that magnum does ;)

[Willie Nelson]

Thats him!...... He was funny to watch when he started shouting in pigeon at the nats you didn't want to be in his way, probably just as well he carried the RPG I mean handgun, he might need it one day.