Qantas A330 Introduction.

[airsupport]

There was a post here yesterday, that seems to have been deleted? :confused: about Qantas getting more A330s.

Anyway, I asked a question on it before it was deleted, re the date of entry into service.

I was told some time ago by an Airbus Rep that the EIS was in mid November, that is only 3-4 weeks time. Have not seen any publicity yet about it, does anyone know the date now?

[OzFlight.net]

airsupport,

Beleive that they may not be due out here until early December due to delays in the fit-out of the cabin as Airbus are running a few weeks behind schedule.

OzFlight

[smurfing]

Oz-flight beat me to it.

I read something a week ago saying the first couple of aircraft have been delayed a few weeks due fit out taking longer than expected (due to french workers??). Now expected in Dec. Cant remember the source though.

[airsupport]

Thank you both. :)

As I said, was told mid November ages ago, and hadn't seen any news about them lately.

[Woomera]

ahem eeerm ..........Guilty yer 'onor.:o :(

Sorry chaps, I used one of those Moderator thingys that was supposed to merge the "A330" post with the "Perth Citylink" news.

I thought there was something odd when it reposted and I can only suppose that the server through my own incompetence spat it into cyberspace, which by the way must be getting a bit crowded given the amount of internet stuff that goes missing.:eek:

Maybe Wirraway can repare the news bit.

[Bundy]

I heard the first A330 was due to arrive Dec 4th. Online taking pax first week of January.

[airsupport]

Thank you. :)

[missy]

And my advice to those who travel, avoid booking on short haul domestic A330 flights (e.g. Sydney-Melbourne) for the first 6 months as typically new aircraft into a fleet have problems as the crews get used to them (slow taxi, longer than normal pushbacks, and in the case of Sydney, the crews requiring 16R/34L).

[Skypark]

Missy,

I would have to disagree with you there. The pilots don't just turn up and find the A330 at the gate and think "oh damn, we better learn how to fly this thing!". Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe QF A330 pilots have been flying with Dragonair on their 'buses.

slow taxi
What is the reason for this? The crew are familiar with the airports and familiar with the plane. I don't understand why they would taxi at a slower speed than normal. I'm sure they couldn't taxi any slower than the SQ or TJ pilots at Sydney.

longer than normal pushbacks
You think so? For what reason? It's all marked on the tarmac, what do they have to do that's different? And i'm sure all the ground engineers are sufficiently trained.

and in the case of Sydney, the crews requiring 16R/34L
Minimal delay. It's just as bad as landing 16L or t/o 34R.

You must be either a very paranoid flyer or just ill-informed.

SP :mad:

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

....wondered why my A330 post got renamed...thought it was MY fingertrouble.... lol

[The Flying Lad]

Why do the A330s need 16R/34L?

They're not that sluggish, and at domestic weights, they wouldn't be struggling to get out of 2400m of tarmac?

I'm sure they'll be using 09/27 at MEL, considering bigger things already use that. Or am I missing something about ground clearence/climb gradient (which I still can't see)?

[GOH]

hi all!

I did have a post in another section about Qantas and new aircraft and it seems to have disapeared or either I lost it! :(

:confused:

[DesignerChappie]

The first aircraft has been test flying for a couple of weeks. 1st fligth was 11/10/02. It was on a test flight last week for 7.5 hrs. So mid November delivery, providing there are no ATC strikes could be a goer.

[missy]

Skypark,

I stand by what I said as I was comparing an A330 with other aircraft in the QFA fleet e.g. B737 or B767 and not with other A330 operators (e.g. Cathay). The pushbacks I were referring to are not the physical length of them but the time. Just compare the time for a B737 to pushback and request taxi to a Classic B747.

As for the A330 regularly landing 16L, I think you are dreaming, a A330 departing RWY 34R on a MARUB, I'd like to see that but probably won't.

[Skypark]

Missy,

You have such a juxtaposed argument, you initially said:
avoid booking on short haul domestic A330 flights (e.g. Sydney-Melbourne) for the first 6 months
Indicating a temporary delay (to which I've already replied, there will be minimal early on delay with the A330). Now you say:
The pushbacks I were referring to are not the physical length of them but the time. Just compare the time for a B737 to pushback and request taxi to a Classic B747.
Is the time length of a pushback going to decrease over a 6 months period? And yes, ofcourse there will be a time difference in the situation you described (albeit a matter of minutes)! But it has nothing to do with your argument! I don't see what your point is by warning people to NOT fly a new aircraft type in a fleet, it's absurdist.

Pfft I'm over it now....

[topend3]

don't think you will see them into cs mate, think they are planning them to use on routes like sydney-brisbane and sydney-melbourne and then to gradually supplement existing 767 services into places like perth.

as for your criticism re qf being similar to ansett in their aircraft aquisitions you are a little off the mark there i think, the 717s were inherited from the impulse operation and are doing fine things, well thats what i read anyway.

the a330s were aquired to run some short-medium haul domestic and intl ops, replacing the ageing 767-238ers in the qf fleet.

an entirely different situation to ansett who had the SAME kind of aircraft doing the SAME job, for example the 737 and the A320, the 146 and the F28s to regional OZ, and the 74's and 76's both deployed on intl ops.

quite different and i think each aircraft in the qantas fleet has been aquired to do a different job.

[Taildragger67]

Topend3,

Couldn't the argument be made that the AN A320s 'supplemented' the 737s?

As for the A330s 'replacing' the 762s... well, they're bigger than the 763s they're 'supplementing'!!

Can't see how it's such a different situation to AN. If QF had wanted to replace the old 762s, they could have got new 762s, more 763s or even 739s - meaning sod-all new crew & engo training. Instead, they've gone for an entirely new airframe/engine combo. In fact a strategy around 738, 763 and 777 would have had commonality benefits.

So... whilst not privy to the analysis, it would seem on the face that someone was possibly pretty keen to get a deal done and maybe offered to absorb some costs/give some guarantees.

Sounds a bit like a more recent deal... ???

[airsupport]

The latest information, is that the first Qantas A330 Ferry Flight should arrive "Dunnunda" at the end of the first week of December. :D

[Nose Wheel]

Regarding the training with Dragonair ... I heard that a couple of the QF boys after arrival in HK have been redirected to train with Malaysian ..... due to '89 issues????

[Meatro227]

Missy,
You probably didn't see the impressive flight display airbus did with all their fleet at farnborough this year nor have you witnessed what the aircraft can do when they're chockers on some of the european charter operator routes.
Syd-Mel, or Syd-Per will be a walk in the park. Any runway and any sid. SO mate, get out there and have a look. You'll be suprised.

[HOBAY 3]

Have heard that the A330s might be painted in a CityFlyer livery/titles or something like that? What's the truth to this rumour anyone??? If true, then are other aircraft following suit?
;)

[Anti Skid On]

If I were to get myself down to Toulouse think they'd let me hitch a ride on the ferry flight?

[404 Titan]

Missy,

I think any push back and taxi issues while very short lived will be more than made up by the A330 better cruise performance, i.e., M.82 against M.77-78 for B767/737. I can also assure you at domestic weights even the A330-300 would have no problems with most of the runways in Sydney.

[Bankstown]

.78 in a 767 on domestic! You don't often see less than .81 (unless being sequenced behind a recently deiced 737-800 :rolleyes: )

[missy]

Gee, I've taken a bagging with this one.

404, you say "I can also assure you at domestic weights even the A330-300 would have no problems with most of the runways in Sydney". Most of the runways, we only have 6 so which ones are you excluding. With the 767s still requiring 16R when we nominate LTOP 07/25 for arrival, then why wouldn't the A330 be the same?

Anyway, we won't have to wait too long before one of us is eating humble pie. I still reckon that the A330 during the early days will be slow around the aerodromes as the pilots get used to it and that during the first month there is a technical delay of more than 60 minutes.

[Going Boeing]

Nose Wheel

The first group of pilots trained on the A330 were Project/Technical pilots and Senior Check Captains who then did line training with either DragonAir or Malaysian. To my knowledge there were no "89" issues with that group. The first group of Line pilots who went to HKG for simulator training are being trained by the QF SCC's who were trained in Toulouse. There would be "89" issues with some of that group, however, I understand that this group will not be doing any line training with other carriers.

[404 Titan]

Missy,

Don’t have exact detail on A330-200 specs, but on the A330-300, 16R/34L Arr/Dep & 07/25 Arr not a problem. 16L/34R though are no go. As the –200 will only be operating domestically, I can’t see why it wouldn’t at least be able to operate to this. Not sure of the exact details of the QF 330’s, but generally the –200 have the same fuel system and I think very similar capacity as the A340-300, i.e., centre, inner, outer and stab fuel tanks, (111000kg total). The A330-300 doesn’t have a centre tank. This makes the –200 a potential Ultra Long Haul aircraft. On a one-hour sector it would typically only need about 11-15000kg of fuel to complete the sector. Such a short sector would make it a landing weight limited flight, so therefore it would make it a very light A/C on departure.

[Alpha Charlie Bravo]

The first A330 is on sched to arrive mid Dec with the inaugural flight being SYD - PER in early Jan with GD on board. Why SYD - PER I hear you ask? Because thats where GD just happened to be going anyway! Perfect sector for equip with a 300+ pax load. And yes, livery will include the Cityflyer logo on the fuselage! Oh, by the way Skypark, you've obviously never heard of the concept of teething problems. Every organisation suffers them when introducing change of this magnitude. Just because I know how to drive my Holden doesn't mean I know how to drive my neighbours Renault. All operational staff will acquit themselves with the professionalism they were employed for, however, you can train as much as you like but when the rubber ball hits the road nothing beats hands on experience!:cool: :cool:

[RaTa]

404 Titan why will 16L/34R be a no go for the A330?

[ftrplt]

ACB,

it was announced ages ago that the A330 would be starting on SYD - PER and SYD - CNS

[Alpha Charlie Bravo]

Ftrplt, or is that Maverick, are you suggesting I don't tell you something YOU already know by telling me something I already know! :D :D

[missy]

SYD-PER, let's hope its a 34 day and the winds are such that the FPL is via the gong, and then we'll see how it new jet handles the MARUB SID!!

[HOBAY 3]

ftrplt,

The Perth sectors are just one-offs to get the show on the road so to speek! After the initial Syd-Per-Mel, the 330s are only doing Mel-Syd and Bne-Syd sectors at this stage.

;)

[404 Titan]

RaTa,

I didn’t say the A330 couldn’t take 16L/34R. What I said is that the A330-300, which I operate on Long Haul, can’t handle it. I then went on to say that the –200 should be able to at least match this. I am sure at domestic weights and right conditions the –200 could handle the above runway. The next time I fly an A330-300, I am only flying the A340 for the next month, I will check the RTOW charts for 16L/34R Sydney and let you know.
:)

[missy]

and will the A330 be participating in PDC?

[Going Boeing]

HOBAY. Your sources are saying different things to mine. The initial patterns have a large amount of MEL-PER & SYD-PER sectors with only a moderate amount of MEL-SYD-MEL sectors.

[HOBAY 3]

Where's your info from Boeing? Mine says
Mel-Syd 7,9:30,15:30,18;
Syd-Mel 7,12,15:30,18;
Syd-Bne 10:05;
Bne-Syd 11:40.

:D

[airsupport]

Qantas picks up first Airbus

Friday 6 December 2002, 10:06AM


Australian travellers are set to enter a new era of air travel with Qantas Airways Ltd picking up its first ever Airbus plane.

Having flown rival Boeing jets for its entire history, Qantas has picked up its first ever Airbus.

The 300 seat A330-200 is expected to cost 10 per cent less to run when it comes into service on the Sydney to Melbourne Cityflyer route in early January.

Qantas has bought 13 A330-200s and A330-300s from Airbus in a major fleet upgrade.

Qantas Group general manager engineering technical operations David Cox said the purchase represented a major step in the airline's fleet renewal program.


"The A330 that we accept today begins a bright new era for Qantas, carrying more passengers, more economically, in more space and comfort - it is a great aircraft for our passengers and our business," Mr Cox said.

The two classed wide body aircraft will be used on key Cityflyer routes between Sydney and Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth as they are added to the Qantas fleet over the next three years.

The twin engined A330-200s will seat 38 business class passengers and 265 in economy providing a boost to the airline's capacity.

[GAFA]

"Having flown rival Boeing jets for its entire history, Qantas has picked up its first ever Airbus."

So what about the 4 A300's that Qantas operated in the 90's. I know they were purchased by TAA/Australian but they did wear Qantas colours.

Good to see the press has done it's homework again.

[puff]

If you want to get technical they QF has never 'picked up' a new aircraft from the factory they aquired them from a merger, they didn't say first Airbus in QF colours...

[airsupport]

IF you want to be really picky :rolleyes: then the title is wrong too. :eek:

It should say, as it does in the text, "Qantas picks up its first Airbus", they are a little late to pick up the FIRST Airbus..... ;)

Anyway, good luck to them with the A330 operation. :D

[betedete]

Airsupport

It's not that wrong, it said "it's first Airbus", not "the first Airbus"

[GAFA]

Puff,
It has nothing to do with "QF has never 'picked up' a new aircraft" but rather "Having flown rival Boeing jets for its entire history", that is wrong. Qantas has flown Airbus jets in it's past.

[fartsock]

Gafa,

The A300 never belonged to QF. It was owned by aust scab airways

[RaTa]

fartsock.......give it a rest, QF bought TN and so owned and operated the A300.

Now if anyone wants to be picky, what about the two HS125s QF used for training!

[gaunty]

Yeah and the HS125 that did a wheels up, oh hang on, was that the Dept one.??:D

Saw the pic of the newie in the paper this am looks pretty cool.:cool:

[RaTa]

Gaunty I'm ready to be shot down but I think it was the CAA (DCA?) aircraft that did the wheels up!:eek:
I agree, I saw a picture of the "newie" transiting SIN and it looked great.

[Eastwest Loco]

First QF 332 operation I can find in Amadeus is QF408 03JAN MELSYD 0700 0820 and 1005 SYDBNE the same day.

Best all

EWL

[apacau]

VH-EBA will operate across to PER on 02 Jan.

[gaunty]

It'll be here on Sat I think on a "proving flight" might just get my anorak out and go stand at the fence.:D

RaTa I think you're right is was the DCA one. Ahhhhh they were the good old days, when the Dept was properly resourced and the FOIs didn't have to beg, or moonlight to stay current.

[Going Boeing]

EWL

They plan to use the first A330 on an "ad-hoc" basis throughout December to give Flight, Cabin and Ground Crews experience with the aircraft prior to its full introduction on 2nd Jan. Keep an eye on your Res system and you might be able to give us a heads-up on where it is going to be. GB

[HOBAY 3]

Effective March 4, 2003, operating double daily Mel-Per services

Mel-Per: QF 485 dep Mel 8:20, arr Per 9:20
QF 481 dep Mel 18:10, arr Per 19:10

Per-Mel: QF 802 dep Per 10:20, arr Mel 16:40
QF 648 dep Per 22:50, arr Mel 5:10 +1

both 332s replacing existing 767 services, representing an increase in capacity.



;)

[Pimp Daddy]

both 332s replacing existing 767 services, representing an increase in capacity.
Not really as 2 each way were downgraded from B767 to B737 from the 27 Oct summer schedule change as a result of the AWAS aircraft going back and 4 B767s going to Australian.

[HOBAY 3]

PD, in fact 2 x 767s were replaced by 3 x 737s, not 2 for 2 as you stated. But in any case, that is history now. Due to the 332 introduction, March capacity on Per-Mel is much more than the Feb capacity, thus representing an increase in capacity!

- Oct: 3 x 737, 4 x 767
Nov-Feb: 6 x 737, 2 x 767
Mar - : 6 x 737, 2 x 332

:p

[airsupport]

betedete,

Sorry for the slow response, but I only just saw the thread since your posting.

PLEASE read what I said. :rolleyes:

THE TITLE............. ;)

IF you want to be really picky then the title is wrong too.

It should say, as it does in the text, "Qantas picks up its first Airbus", they are a little late to pick up the FIRST Airbus.....

Anyway, good luck to them with the A330 operation.

Best regards,

"airsupport"

[dghob]

Quote:

"Qantas said the A330-200 boasted the quietest cabin in flight of any domestic aircraft, greater elbow room and head room, and larger overhead baggage lockers - but not more leg room.

Airbus usually puts 293 seats in A330-200 aircraft across two classes - 30 business and 263 economy - but Qantas is squeezing in an extra 10 seats, 38 business and 265 economy."


Source: SMH net service on [email protected] 20/12/02

I was looking forward to the odd trip ex-Brisbane on the A330 but as I'm 6'2" the above news ain't welcome. I would have thought the A330's supposed superior cabin comfort was a genuine opportunity for product differentiation. Pity. :(

[ditzyboy]

Ahh, the Media.....

If QF introduced Spacebeds onto Dash 8s or lobster in Y class they would still find something to whinge about it if they wanted too! The same could be said for some people on this forum (not you dghob... just a general observation ).

What SMH fails to mention is that QF is using slimline seats in both classes. Most airlines with the A330 are long haul and therefore use different seats for J class which are thicker. Also there would be more pitch required as their operations are long haul. There isn't all that many airlines that use seats as slim as the ones used by QF. Also QF ordered the A330 with smaller galley units at the forward and mid positions. Also the rear galley is smaller as the toilets cut into it. A lot of A330 operators have the rear most toilets in the cabin, effectively taking away the last row of seats thus creating more galley stowage.

Finally the SMH doesn't seem to mention that the seat pitch in Y is world standard 31"....

Postives Positives Positives

[Peter D Thomson]

Latest rumour is that QF only taking first three 330,holding off on the rest to see what happens with United,possibly cancel options for the rest of the 330 and take United 777

[Chief galah]

Noticed the new bird doing a missed approach off runway 16 at YMML the other day.
ATC induced or did the boys get the profile wrong?

[RaTa]

Peter T....... as much as a lot of us wish the rumour were true, I doubt it will happen. To bring in a totaly new type at this stage would not work.

[blueloo]

Well....what i heard was that QANTAS is cancelling every aircraft order and selling its entire fleet to be replaced with the 6 new Scaremonger 500. It seats 1000 people in 1/2 class configuration and has (best of all) 1 flight attendant (over 65). :D

[dghob]

Ditzyboy

Good info on A330 configurations - hard to argue with that.
:cool:

You're right about the positives. Cheers

[Agent86]

Heard QF6008 (330 ferry flight) from Touluose to Aus asking for wind Adl-Mel today. This was at around 0300Z. AC departed at ~1000Z yesterday and was trying to make it to MEL direct ... Initial plan was ADL.

Interesting comment was the planned descent profile.... 210 KIAS. I presume min drag/max range speed to preserve fuel.


Made it to MEL I hear.

[Zeke]

Peter T,

Don't think so, some of the A330-300's are not due to be delviery for ages (QPA-QPF&EBG), QPA is not set for delivery until oct/03. EBC & EBD are due first half of 03. EBG an A333 is the last of them at this stage, due for delivery may 05. The A332's EBE & EBF have been deferred.

OQA the first of the A380-841s is due nov 06 and the last of them OQL due may 09.

Gafa,

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought VH-TAA the first of the A300B4-103's MSN 134 to (TAA->QF) was ex P2-ANG, not new from the factory.

Z

[Fris B. Fairing]

Zeke

It was VH-TAA with TAA before it became "Balus bilong Woody Woodpecker"

Cheers

[airsupport]

IF it works? This is the Airbus issued sticker of the Aircraft.

http://ebay3.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_a3a7f29804d54c951fee33a8d4ac5d75/i-1.JPG

[missy]

All,

Below is some information that was sent to Airservices by Qantas so at least the controllers know what to expect (which ain't that much). This is some Tower relevant information and there was other information more pertinent to Sectors and Approach (slow approach speeds).

The A330 is similar to the B777 or B747 in terms of the runway that it uses on landing. It is not normal for us to be able to vacate quickly after landing.

The A330 is very slow when making 90 degree turns on the ground. It generally is a slow aircraft when taxiing and ‘expedite’ requests when taxiing, will be complied with as best as possible, but please don’t expect a rapid response.

The aircraft pushback and start sequence is normal and similar to other large twins. Note that it has the physical size of just under a B747 Classic aircraft. Also as the aircraft will have a fair amount of training crews, there may be a slower than normal start sequence until more experience has been gained.

And what did I say...bold

[missy]

Please disregard the "bold" bit at the end of my last point as I was trying some formatting but it didn't work!!

Oh yeah, I hear the other day when operating 34 parallel departures the A330 wanted RWY 34L for departure rather than RWY 34R. To MEL via the "gong" so what's the story?

[airsupport]

Qantas recently took delivery of its first Airbus A330 aircraft, which will replace older Boeing 767s on domestic routes.

Qantas has ordered 13 A330s to be delivered over the next three years.

The A330 seats about 300 passengers and features more cabin space.

The planes will be used on Qantas Cityflyer routes, including the new service between Melbourne and Perth launched last week, as well as Sydney and Perth and Brisbane and Perth.

Mr Gurney said the airline had upgraded its in-flight service on the route, including bigger meals and a second service during the flight.

"This is the first of an overall review of catering across the network," he said.

Mr Gurney said Qantas would announce details of an Internet and SMS messaging service this year.

[HOBAY 3]

Airsupport,

PER-BNE? Seems a big increase in capacity, especially when DJ recently started as well. If 330 is being used, will QF keep the double daily, or cut back to one service? It was only a few years ago when QF had no service at all on this route, now a 300 seat jet!

:)

[airsupport]

Well you would have to ask Qantas for the official position.

I believe that they are doing this because Virgin Blue "have crossed the line in the sand". ;)

That is, Qantas were prepared to tolerate Virgin Blue to a certain extent, however they have now become too much of a nuisance :eek: especially on the Perth route.

So now Qantas are going to use these A330s and massively improve their inflight service (on the Perth route anyway :rolleyes: ) to repel Virgin Blue..............

[Snowballs]

Re info to Airservices from Qantas:

“The A330 is very slow when making 90 degree turns on the ground. It generally is a slow aircraft when taxiing and ‘expedite’ requests when taxiing, will be complied with as best as possible, but please don’t expect a rapid response.”

The real reason they (A330) are slow in making large turns is due to a design fault / limitation of the undercarriage. The wheels on the bogie are further apart (fore aft) than those on the older A300/310 series aircraft. If sharp or tight turns are made the undercarriage is prone to cracking !

Operators of the A340 have the same problem. Pilots just have to understand the limitation and live with it.

Typical Airbus …………. Another limitation rather than a design fix.
:rolleyes:

[topend3]

i wasn't aware qf was going to ue the A330s on the PER-BNE run , to start with i thought it was just MEL-PER???

[airsupport]

THE newest Qantas A330-200 is headed for the record books after a 17,000km non -stop delivery flight from France to Melbourne. The airline is waiting for confirmation from the Australian Sport Aviation Confederation that the 20-hour flight was a world record.

The new plane, VH-EBB, is the airline's second A330 and landed in Melbourne on Christmas Day after the marathon flight from the Airbus factory in Toulouse.

"We believe we have achieved a distance-without-landing milestone of 16,910km , improving on the current record of 11,249km which was accomplished on a flight from Toulouse to Santiago, Chile, on March 21, 1998," said executive general manager aircraft operations David Forsyth. "The distance flown by VH- EBB demonstrates the range capability and efficiency of the A330-200. "

VH-EBB joined its sister, VH-EBA, on Cityflyer routes yesterday and will be used between Sydney and Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth.

The twin-engine aircraft are the first of seven A330-200s and six bigger A330 -300s ordered to replace older 767-200s as Qantas's mid-size workhorse.

They are part of a multi-billion dollar Airbus deal that broke Boeing's stranglehold at Qantas and will see the introduction of 515-seat A380 super jumbos in 2006.

Meanwhile, the last Boeing 747-200 in service at Qantas headed off to an American desert retirement this week. VH-EBS, The City of Broken Hill, entered service in 1981.

[Traffic]

Good to see Broken Hill off to Boot Hill...

Now all they have to do is clean up their act with the 743's.

All this talk about upgraded equipment and service with the 330's while the punters in Asia still put up with the rubbish.

The last ride I had from Sydney to Narita a week or so ago in the 'Rome maingear collapse' 743 shows how little they care about the Japanese market. No complaints so everything must be OK. Well it ain't I am afraid when a lot of the seats are broken and the skirting boards have parted company from the rest of the interior and the wide-eyed Japanese look in fear at naked ribbing!! Not to mention the galleys. No wonder they only fly these babies at night!!

Likewise JAL seem to treat the Australian service with similar contempt but at least their antiques are better internally maintained.

Have given up writing..it is a waste of paper.

[Keg]

Traffic, QFs 743s are currently all undergoing an upgrade. New business class and economy seating to match the systems currently being put into the 744s. Eventually, some 744s will be indistinguishable from the 743s on the interior. Perhaps your letter writing did get to them after all! :D

[HOBAY 3]

QF are also using the 332s on SYD-CNS on Saturdays during January.

;)

[airsupport]

QANTAS launched its Perth Cityflyer service, featuring an international standard of inflight service for travel across the continent using new Airbus A330 aircraft.

You can sum that as representing an important shift in attitude towards WA travellers particularly those flying regularly on business.

And it is a major win for local Qantas representatives, particularly regional general manager WA Ian Gay, who has been driving home to Qantas nationally what it's like to be on the sharp end as a West Australian traveller.

It also is a clear result of a big company listening to its customers.

"It's the culmination of a few of us in Perth working to get a product flying to the east coast that is appropriate to the market," says Mr Gay. "So many people compare the flight to Sydney with a flight to Singapore.

"People over here literally do 30 or 40 flights east-west a year." Particularly for them, food, service, choice of movies are important.

Group general manager sales Rob Gurney, says: "The service on these flights is now like an international flight."

At the launch, he praised Mr Gay for his part in bringing the upgraded service. "Ian does champion the cause of WA very effectively."

He also announced that 50 cabin crew will now be based in Perth. "By having the crew based here they do get to know their regular customers," he says.

It is a further visible commitment to the Perth market.

Qantas executive general manager sales and marketing John Borghetti said the airline's brand new Airbus A330 aircraft, setting a high standard in domestic air travel, would be used.

"We've worked closely with Airbus to develop an enhanced cabin environment, with a level of comfort and space unparalleled," he said.

There will be seven services a day between Perth and Sydney, eight a day between Perth and Melbourne, and two a day between Perth and Brisbane.

(This also includes Perth to Brisbane, unless they are not all operated by A330s, but that is how it reads??)

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Watch out all Australian controllers if QF get the A330's, they are a nightmare. They descend 50NM earlier than all the other jets, so they get low and slow, and screw up the sequence royally (unless you putem number last as we do in the Middle East). You've been warned.