Things BA like?

[funkster]

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do in the next few months before my BA interview.

I have been to the final board a couple of times, and one thing that worries me is proving my motivation.

A couple of years ago before my first BA application I paid for about 5 hours of flying to show some interest (and because it is fantastic), but no flying in the last 18 months or so. This was because I thought I'd rather save up some money and do a ppl etc in blocks, rather than the odd hour here and there.

The thing is whilst I'm staying away from flying (to save money) it doesn't exactly look good for BA, because it looks like I'm not physically doing anything to pursue my career.
Maybe I should do some work experience or gliding or something to show to BA that this is really what I want?? (One problem is I have a 9-5 job to hold down.)

Would this bother BA that I have nothing to show on my CV regarding aviation in the last 18 months??

Any ideas anyone, what could I do in the next few months??

[A and C]

Can you make a tall tower out of lego bricks ? cos thats what they made the group i was in do.

The real answer to the question is do a lot of mental arithmatic and verbal reasoning tests read the heavy press and the BA web site ,the tests have little to do with flying and a lot to do with keeping an oversized HR department in work.

[Token Bird]

I think funkster is worried about the interview not the tests.

Funkster, since you seem to have a good justification for avoiding flying, ie, wanting to save up to do it all in one go, you may get away with it, although it may seem dodgy that you paid for 5 hours simply to prove your interest then stopped. BA will no doubt read it as they please, however, even if you try to explain it - they accused me of lack of motivation when I had over 30 hours!

[funkster]

Thanks for the replies..
Indeed TB it is the interview I am concerned with.

The fact that I have logged some hours and am reapplying for the third time would, I'd have thought, show motivation!
(That is ridiculous to say that someone with 30 hours logged isn't motivated! I mean that must have cost you over £2000? You have my sympathy!!)
However looking at my recent history over the past 18 months and they could say well what have you done to show that this is the career for you??! Perhaps offering to help out at my local flying club etc. I'm not sure...

[rmidgley]

Hi there
As token bird says, they will look at your form any way they want to. I know people who have failed through lack of commitment/motivation etc with loads of hours whilst one guy got through having not even been in a plane, let alone flown one!! so who knows what they want. But speaking as recent rejectee, it's probably not so much what you have done recently but the reasons you give them at the interview. In my FB, my lack of flying experience was picked on severely, even though, as you, I thought it would be a waste of money doing a few token hours, and better to do my PPL in one go. However they obviously disagreed.

The advice I would give is whatever you say, make sure you have loads of reasons to back it up, even if you sort of exaggerate the point and say you have a special savings account with flying lesson money in or something, anything to make it plausible.

Good luck

[Blammo]

FB No.1 I got nailed for failure of motivation. Flying lessons are not the only way to prove to them that you are interested in Av. Books, mags, internet, displays and getting up on the flight deck are all ways you can prove motivation - from horses mouth. I cannot stress to you enough the importance of blagging a ride on the jump seat down to your FB. It demonstrates that you are keen to see how BA pilots work, the working environment and how they communicate (remember the application?), and BA has a big hardon about their pilots being the best trained.

Also is very good Karma to say you have gone through the mill with another airline(s) - even if you haven't. Aer Lingus ran that last year in may so might be an idea to say you were binned from them, but you weren't very impressed with them anyway. Warning, if you do say that you did this, be prepared to invent a reason why you didn't get in. Don't be too scared of blagging in this way because its quite difficult to prove that you are lying. The inital stage was sub contracted out to Parc Av and it was a bloody shambles (take my word) anyway so probably a fairly safe blag.

Don't be too distressed about not flying recently. I went to FB in July and I have't flown for 10 months. Only got 3 lessons in anyway. The unoffical line is that flying experience is grudgingly accepted as a plus, but over 190 hours is a minus as you might have got some bad habbits you need to be trained out of.

If you have any other quiries please mail me at the attached and i'll do mi' damndest

Blamms

:cool:

[Token Bird]

Be very careful - BA managed to turn the fact that I went on a jumpseat ride into a BAD thing. Believe me, they will use all the dirty tricks they can to try and belittle all the good achievements you think you have made. It's really quite astonishing.

The main reason they rejected me second time round, however, was that I'd done a degree in Biology but was now working in IT (like a lot of us here). Despite the fact I have stayed in the same job since graduating they still said that I had 'changed career too many times' and they believed that I would go off the idea of flying soon enough.

[purple haze]

i had fb last year and i think that the process is very subjective and you see some very good applicants get rejected and some obvious ones. i think theres a lot of luck involved as well as a bit of ability.
just because u get rejected by ba it doesnt mean ur a bad pilot.

just stick in there

[prob30]

The question of motivation that comes up in interviews, i would suggest, is only an oppertunity for them to put you under pressure. Give good answers and reasoning and don't feel intimidated must be the way to go.

[EI 666]

Am thinking of applying for sponsorhip... but thursday I have my first flying lesson and what you all say seems very daunting. I mean I am very intelligent, have great exam results all the usual vocational plus points, but these do not seem enough. What should I do? :confused:

[Irishboy]

EI 666 - Go for it. Nobody knows what goes through the mind of these HR people. Half the time they are just trying to justify their own existance anyway. Think positive, fill out the application form and give it your best shot.

[low n' slow]

Hi!
Eventhough I have no experience in job interviews, I believe in two things:
Never lie to the interviewer. If they discover that you're lying, that's it! You'll have hell of a time justifying that little lie! If you start lying, you'll have to put asside mind capacity to sticking to that lie so that you won't contradict yourself later in the conversation.
Never show that you're frustrated. They will, as all the other previous posts have implied, take in the information that you give them and then look at it the way they want to. A jump-seat ride can very well be a bad thing. The interviewer I saw (for my school application), told me I'd had a bad childhood in which my father and brother had been very physically violent towards me. This only because I'd told her that the relation between me and my father isn't really that good, but it's not bad either. What they want to do is to provoce you and confuse you. If you feel that you're being provoced, just take it easy and don't show your anger. There are some weird people in the buisness and they want to make shure that, if you have to work with a crew member posessing these charectaristics, it still will not pose a problem with the cockpit environment. It might seem a bit weird (perhaps because my English is really bad today!). But if you think of it, it makes sense. At least to me... :rolleyes:
Think of all your shortcomings and try to correct them. Regarding the motivation part, just come up with all the reasons you can think of. Economics should be a good one!
Also show that you're aware of your "not so good sides". People that aren't aware of the situations in which their performance is lower than standard, will have a hard time being a pilot. If you know what I'm talking about that's a very big step towards being accepted by the interviewer (i think)!


In short my advice is this:
Don't lie
Never let yourself get provoced
Show that you know your faults and that you're doing something to make them better.

good luck and best regards/lns

[tomthepilot]

i couldn't agree with prob30 more
you need to view the whole i/v process as an opportunity to sell yourself - its what you make it

if you are truly motivated to become a pilot: whether you've been on a jumpseat / taken flying lessons / worked at an airport, this will come across anyway

as purple haze said, many get thru with little of the above - it's all down to how you perform in the i/v - be strong, assertive and believe in yourself whatever they throw at you

the key things to remember are good/many examples of team working, operating under pressure, motivation &&&&&& interest in BA (you have to be clued up on the company to the finest details!!!). saying you've applied elsewhere simply shows dedication to a career as a pilot, so i wouldn't suggest labouring the point as they want people exclusively committed to BA

i am also a veteran of the BA i/v's and this info comes from several candid feedback responses

good luck to everyone out there - but never exclude the other options - BA is not the one and only

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Captain Aileron ]

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Captain Aileron ]

[Token Bird]

Year before last they accused me of being anorexic. Not a very nice thing to say, really. I had to put up with a lot of that when I was at school, but for an adult to make that comment was shocking.

Well at least they shake your hand and introduce themselves which is more than I can say for some interviewers in this business.

[scroggs]

As has been said above, any employment interview is a subjective process. Even experienced interviewers sometimes have problems putting into words what it is they dislike about a particular candidate, but that dislike will most certainly result in a PFO - as you peeps so charmingly call a rejection!
The thing to remember is that you are in competition to get the job. You are competing firstly against BA's minimum requirements, which they make fairly clear and shouldn't pose a problem to any of you here. You are then competing against all the other applicants for a place on their DEP or CEP schemes. Don't believe the official line that all who make the grade will get the job; that's rubbish. It's perhaps more true in BA than other airlines, but it's a fact that BA only have so many places a year and they don't keep a huge backlog of people waiting to enter training. Yes, they have a 'hold pool' for DEPs, but it's not large, and normally is sized to cover the next threee months' training requirements.
So it's not good enough to be just good enough! You have to aim to be the most impressive candidate at interview. This, obviously, covers many areas. You should have worked as hard as you can to get the best possible Stage 1 results - remember, not 'just good enough'. You should present yourself immaculately. You should give the impression that you are confident, but not cocky, knowledgable but not a know-it-all, motivated but you haven't yet got the T-shirt.
Whether 5 hours flying or 50 hours is better will depend hugely on the impressions you give and, yes, the prejudices of the interview board on the day you're there. They're human, they have likes and dislikes, and you may well fall foul of that. I'm afraid that's tough. All you can do is to try and make yourself so impressive that they can't turn you down - that's how some get in with no flying experience!
Never, ever lie at interview. Very few people are convincing liars, and even fewer can keep up the pretence for the months or even years that your story might be relevant. If you are found out (of, for instance, the Aer Lingus story suggested above) you will be out on your ear with no questions asked. You would then find it very difficult to get employment at any other airline. Aviation is not a field where a known deceitful individual would be tolerated. Don't do it.
At the end of the day, this is not a fair procedure; nothing in life is. After you've achieved the minimum standards, the rest is down to whether they like you or not, and whether there're 5 or 50 places available. It's up to you to go in intending to be No.1 of the 5, not one of the 50.

[scroggs]

See this thread: BA Final Board 9th August (http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=010467) and check out Sloany's last post - there's some good advice there.

[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: scroggs ]

[Pontius]

Sorry Scroggs, but you're wrong. The BA line that if you pass you'll get a course is the truth. By all means try your very best and try to shine, but you are NOT competing against the people on the day. You are NOT compared to the other candidates and you WILL go into a mini-pool until the course dates can be figured around BA's and the candidates requirements (with BA's taking precedence). You ARE competing against a standard and that only. There is no need for BA to take an average candidate as there are plenty of good ones applying for the same positions.


Funkster,

Motivation has to be sustained. Doing some flying is a great way to demonstrate your determination to get airborne but, as has already been suggested, there are plenty of other ways of maintaining an interest in flying (and, more importantly, being able to show you have). I'm afraid doing some flying a few years ago and then, as many people do, getting a reasonably paid job and doing nothing in between does not go down at all well. Imaging someone getting a £25000/year IT job and then doing absolutely no flying. Does that strike you as motivated to fly? No. Likewise a BA selector. In addition think about motivation. It's not necssarily just about flying. What else have you done with your life that shows your whole motivation to life in general? Visited some far off place? Worked on a kids' camp? Done any voluntary work? All good examples of doing something with your life, rather than Jo Blow The Average. Well, give it some thought.


Token Bird,

You are a well balanced young thing aren't you...both shoulders. I've noticed the common thread which runs through your postings. It's always BA's fault and never you. The latest gems regarding flt deck vists and skinniness are shining examples. I would love to see the interview transcripts from the last eg because I'm as certain as anyone could be that it would not have been brought up unless you instigated the discussion. BA interviewers do not discuss such personal subjects unless the candidate is happy to.

If you do want to get into BA I suggest you take a very hard look at where YOU went wrong instead of the nasty people at BA. It wasn't them who didn't pass and they've got no axe to grind with anyone. Get feedback and work on it and believe me it won't have anything dto do with your weight or your flt deck visits, it will be much more fundamental.

Right, the pub's open, so later........


Pontius

[scroggs]

Pontious, I'll take your word for it! However, in the RAF we used to say the same thing. Inevitably, there were times when so many made, or could make, the arbitrary 'standard' that, in the short term, the interviewers were 'guided' towards a tougher line, and in the longer term the standard was raised - the training system could not cope with unlimited numbers of students, and the RAF knew very well how many new peeps it needed every year. And, when applications were a bit thin, vice versa. The net result was that only a certain percentage would pass, which is the way they wanted it. For the candidates, it always effectively meant that only the very best of those who attended would succeed. In other words, they were in competition, whatever the official line was. If BA has managed to avoid the peaks and troughs, and can genuinely say that all who make the (unchanging?) standard will fly for them, well done! Forgive me for being just a little bit cynical about that.
Whatever, I stick with my final sentence of advice - go in to this planning to be the best candidate they inteview, not just good enough.