View Full Version : AAE 727 Loses Main Wheel Ex ML?

18th Oct 2002, 06:33
Just heard a story about a night freight 727 Ex Melbourne last night that lost a main wheel on rotate. Apparently the rogue tyre ran through 3 rows of cyclone fencing and a couple of paddocks before stopping. The crew continued on to Perth and the first any one new of the event was when the ground handlers on arrival said to the Captain....."Hey Mate! We think you might be missing something."

Has anyone else heard about this or have any other details:eek: :eek:

18th Oct 2002, 06:49
What the!......

You just can't get good pit crew anymore.:D

I'm not surprised the wheel went that far considering it would have been going close to 300kmh when it came off, the energy equation would have been impressive.:eek:

Classic Dick
18th Oct 2002, 10:18
Are they getting 737 freighters? Heard two F/Os off to the Staes next week to do conversion on the 737-300.

19th Oct 2002, 12:42
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

the wizard of auz
19th Oct 2002, 15:37
You just have to put that split pin in after greasing the wheel bearings :D :D

19th Oct 2002, 20:03
Which wheel ??(1 or 3)Must have been a good crew to land it with-out probs,that is blowing the other.:D :D

23rd Oct 2002, 04:44
It would appear that:

The aircraft concerned is newly imported and has undergone major maintenance, including significant undercarriage component replacements, prior to the issue of a C of A.

The aircraft is being operated without a valid MEL.

The left inner main wheel detached during taxi, and fault indications were present on the anti-skid system. The fault indications would have persisted through the flight.

The aircraft was at or near MTOW on departure.

The left seater was one of the new hire 'professionals' brought in to 'raise the standards'.

In the light of the above:

The crew would appear to have used up all their allocation of luck for this decade, and should probably avoid crossing busy roads.

Serious problems would appear to exist in the maintenance area. The newly hired chief engineer must be tearing his hair out at the shambles he has inherited.

There appear to be problems in the operational culture with respect to use of a pseudo MEL for despatch in aircraft which do not have a valid MEL, and use of unofficial 'snag lists'. 'GA mentality' is the pejorative usually thrown about in this context, and is usually not present in this type of equipment. One wonders about practices at the Captain's previous employer.

There would appear to be immense pressure on the crews at this time, with threats to employment over minor issues.

CASA and ATSB follow-up on this incident may bring a lot of skeletons out of the closet with interesting consequences.

Rumour also has cash shortages and late pays featured.

In short, the aircraft are not the only parts of this organisation that the wheels appear to be falling off.

23rd Oct 2002, 07:49
There is a difference in being an successful operator of aircraft and a leasing company.
Thank God no one was hurt.
No doubt CASA will sort this out.

23rd Oct 2002, 08:03
Starting to sound like Bank Run mentallity has entered the heavey jet arena.

Only there will be a MUCH bigger hole the first time one goes in!!!

23rd Oct 2002, 08:47
Chop my friend, I'm impressed with your confidence in CASA!

CASA won't sort this out, one of their own has taken the chief pilots position!! At least one FOI has been running round sprouting his mouth off as to how good this is going to be and watch how it's done. Well I've watched and can honestly say I'm impressed. I never knew that this is in fact how it is done and is what CASA wanted.

The comments (not rumours) flying out of this organisation by it's own staff is amazing.

This organisation has undergone a complete change of ownership, a complete change of management, a complete change of financial position all while trying to accomodate substantial growth.

Substantial change of these these types by CASA's own guidelines should have required the AOC to reprocessed.

I'll bet nothing comes of it because to do something about it would affect s QANTAS entity AAE that put all their eggs in one basket and now have nowhere to go. A bit of political pressure and CASA will just role over.

I understand that the 727 sim has actively been put up for sale overseas. It would seem that the other shareholders want out. Wonder what they know!!

Capt Snooze
23rd Oct 2002, 10:53
Bank Run mentality Wizofoz?

I think one of the previous posters was suggesting that the driver was one of your ex-colleagues.

:D :D :D :D


23rd Oct 2002, 14:17

One of my ex colleagues who, as a recently unemployed pilot, was just as susceptable to overt pressure by management to cut corners if his job was on the line as anyone else.

Professtional pilots can only act professtionally in a professtionally run company. Otherwise they have the choice of leaving, or crossing fingers and hoping for the best.

With the bills mounting and no where else to go, it can be an impossible choice, just like the poor sods in the over-loaded aerostars doing bank-runs.

Capt Snooze
24th Oct 2002, 01:49
Hey Wiz, lighten up!

It wasn't me casting aspersions on his 'mentality'. ;)

Interesting concept though.
If we're 'recently unemployed', 'with the bills mounting', and have 'nowhere else to go', a situation that many or most of us have been in one time or another, it's acceptable to lower our standards?

'crossing fingers and hoping for the best' has never been a viable long-term SOP in our trade.

Snooze :eek:

24th Oct 2002, 02:25
You are right Capt Snooze not viable but certainly popular. :(

1st Nov 2002, 02:05

While I agree with most of what you say, I spoke to one of the other shareholders of the sim and he said that they are exploring all options available to the company, one of which is to sell the sim, however he did think this was the most likely outcome.

He did say that it had nothing to do with any knowledge of ACA and was more about all the shareholders having different needs and imperatives and as such, the sim did not feature high for at least two of them. Unfortunately that may impact negatively on the one that still needs the sim

2nd Nov 2002, 06:26
latest goss on this outfit is.........new EBA negotiations not good remuneration wise for back of clock flying and rostering is bad.....one week at a time.
Two F/Os going with A320 Captain slots in the middle east, twoo F/Os to Virgin and one (F/O or Capt?) got a 744 slot with Qaintass!.....no problems getting more crews ...but not a real happy place to work at present.

Pimp Daddy
2nd Nov 2002, 07:25
This mob have just got a new Ops guy ex Southern, should be an improvement in the rostering area with any luck, apparently going to Geneva or the like.

12th Nov 2002, 02:18
Believe all is not well within this outfit, apparently moral is pretty low because of the "new" management attitude to the guys who were already employed there. The new CP is not on everyones dinner party list nor is the "flotsom" he dragged in with him.

There is also a very strong rumour that this "new" management is on very shakey ground with CASA over a number of issues, actually "up to their armpits in alligators" was the term used, and it is said that they can't find the swamp. Added to all there woes apparently a very disgruntled well qualified 727 pilot has taken them to court over their policy of hiring unrated pilots for advertised 727 positions.

With all this going on one wonders if with former Ansett staff now running the show whether AAE will go the same way, fairly rocky start to an expansion I'd say!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

12th Nov 2002, 02:44
Sorta puts a lie to that old saying that "a rolling wheel gathers no moss" eh. :D

12th Nov 2002, 10:00
This wouldn't be the same chief pilot that stuck his head around the door of a classroom with some new hires, didn't introduce himself and said something like "any of you bastards mention the word scab and your fired" and stormed off

Would suggest that he might just have a guilty concience. He probably also wonders why this hatchet has never been buried. Although if he continues to act like that I can probably guess where it may be buried.

AHHH............ HRM and CRM at its best!!!! Yet this is CASA's great white hope.. Says a lot also.

14th Nov 2002, 03:51

19th Nov 2002, 10:27
Aint it amazing ?!!! An outfit comes along providing desperately
needed jobs for pilots & others & what happens ?

They get sniped from every point on the compass !!!!!

Don't have to guess what the motives are, already know.

sniffer dog
17th Jan 2003, 15:01
Where are ATSB/CASA hiding with regard to this "schmozzle" with this B727 flying across the continent for 4 hrs without a mainwheel and nobody any the wiser!


Is it because of the "new managements" cosy relationship with CASA?


18th Jan 2003, 01:32
I here from the inside that this outfit is far from a happy work environment.

Also more disturbing is that the only thing that has stopped "the glass experts" from drilling a hole somewhere is the competent former employees of the previous management. :rolleyes:

21st Jan 2003, 07:56
Have been a reader of PPRUNE for sometime - but never had the desire to raise words with some of the knowlegeable aviation pundits - nor cross swords with the feral contributors.

However here goes.

At a recent BBQ (numerous aviation types present) discussion revolved around the recent offerings on the B727 Mainwheel Loss.

The ensueing conversation proved interesting and I offer some of the comments.

In regard to Sniffer Dog's comments - very strong on implication. But not on substance. But perhaps a genuine enquiry.

The BBQ mob revealed that the organisation involved with this B727 were engaged in deep and serious conversations. And none of it could be construed as "cosy".

Serious issues were raised by CASA (sorry do not know the details) and in the end CASA were satisfied with the outcome.

Especially as the ATSB were indicating their concerns were not with teh maintenance organisation fitting the wheel that eventually fell off. But with the organsiation that provided the wheel.

In regard to CASA's silence - what thet say and to whom??
Perhaps nothing to Sniffer Dog. But it was said to the maintenance organsiation looking after the aircraft.

Similarly with the ATSB - there apparently was considerable dialogue with the maintenance organisation - with an eventual - but yet to be publicised conclusion that the cause of the loss of the mainwheel was directly related to a problem with the wheel bearing grease.

As with many ATSB investigations - not much if anything is said until the final report is completed. And that could be many months away.

FarQ2's comments are also interesting - and some elaboration of his short but telling statement would be appreciated.

The BBQ experts report some mixed views. But in the main the feeling is that the Company in question has grown sigbificantly in a very short period of time. The consequence is "growing pains".

New staff in - some old staff out. Different work practices for changing circumstances. Some people are happy (apparently most) - some are not.

A situation that faces any sort of organisation in any industry.

Not sure about FarQ2's last sentence ... "competent former employees of previous management".

I guess it was meant to say .. "competent employees of former/previous management".

Presumably the ones retained were done so because of their competence. And the newly introduced - would be hired to match or exceed that standard.

Again the BBQ experts (but note - after numerous beers) view the outcome to have more postives than negatives resulting from the new management.

"Cosy" arrangements with CASA do not appear to be the case.

Meetings between CASA and the organisation (before the main wheel loss and afterwards) have been hard hitting from both camps.

Both sides are endeavouring to establish a strong professional working relationship.

It would be refreshing to see it succeed.

The newly introduced - presumambly

21st Jan 2003, 08:35

22nd Jan 2003, 05:10

I may be wrong here but I think you may find that the so called maintenance organisation and the operator are the same entity.

If that is the case I think it puts a slightly different slant on the defence espoused!!

Irrespective the operator is responsible for the maintenance of their aircraft and the buck stops there.

A problem with the grease causing the whell to fall off???? wow some grease. Grease that does that is called glue.