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jungly
18th Oct 2002, 01:50
Noted from the "Letters to the Editor"

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I note that the new Airforce advertising catch cry is "Bring It On". Of course my reply is "Or what?" What if someone did "Bring It On?" Given 12hrs notice of a hijacked 747 coming from Los Angeles to plough into the Americas Cup village, NZ could do nothing.
As the tradgic events in Bali unfolded the Airforce was asked to step up and transport a medical team. Their Hercules broke down.
Whilst the men and women of the NZDF remain dedicated professionals successive Governments have undermined their ability to do even the most non-military tasks.
Its a travesty that the average kiwi has yet to wake up to.
Even the PM is traveling to El Alamein in a civil aircraft whilst the veterans travel in an Airforce 727 - It has also broken down!
Isnt it ironic that El Alamein was an allied victory hailed for its use of airpower, being celebrated by PM who see's airpower as worthless?
"Bring It On" is worse than ironic, surely it is a joke!

Spinnerhead
18th Oct 2002, 04:30
Unfortunately most Kiwi's living in N.Z. have very isolationist views on the world. I hope the wake up call, when it comes, isn't too drastic.

They could have a credible defence force if they spent the same % of their GDP on defence as good ol' Oz does.

Arm out the window
18th Oct 2002, 08:17
It's a pretty hard thing to do of course, given that we are duty bound to put **** on them, but I must say that all the Kiwi Air Force people I've worked with have been good operators, and I'm sorry to see their system being so sadly undermined from above.

;)

ZK-NSJ
18th Oct 2002, 09:51
most kiwis want a decent defence force but under the current government of one certain lady(we think) and her greenie mates they would rather spend 13 billion a year on the dole and only 1 billion on defence,

Boeing Belly
18th Oct 2002, 10:34
Mate, the government can't afford both an Airforce and an Airline. Take your pick, what do you want?

Blue Line
18th Oct 2002, 10:34
Yeah I have to agree, most people know that NZ does need it's Atack Wing back, but while gestapo helen is in charge :confused: :confused: it wont happen, although woman change there minds quiet a bit, but again that only applys to woman, so may or maynot to helen.

We as NZ'ers are sort of off in the corner of the pacific, but from when I've been around the country they only ones that think that we are safe & away from trouble are they country bumkins down the south of the south & Aucklanders :rolleyes:

Barbers Pole
18th Oct 2002, 21:10
NSJ is right, they'd rather spend billions on the blugers & minority groups who are dictating & dragging this country down.

The useless gits have just spent 80 mill to buy back Akl rail lines from Tranz rail who bought them off the Govt in the 80's for a dollar!!! [email protected]#k!!! :mad:

ZK-NSJ
18th Oct 2002, 21:32
i for one didnt want the government to buy back air nz,
it was a private company, and just because it had new zealand in big letters on the side well..., i know many current servicemen and woman, and was for a short time in the army myself, 4500 people doing the work of 6000, u dont hear moaning, they cant go on strike like teachers and nurses can, yet they are underpaid and overworked, i just wish the govt would give them a break and shell out some cash.

Gog
19th Oct 2002, 10:46
"Given 12hrs notice of a hijacked 747 coming from Los Angeles to plough into the Americas Cup village, NZ could do nothing."



OK, so if the A4s were still operational and manage to intercept a 747 descending on Auckland at mach 0.9.(??) at say 100 miles.

Assuming the hijackers ignore all their warnings , what next......

I find it hard to believe a NZ Govt of any flavour would authorise the shooting down of a 747 full of civilians and I don,t think I would want them to.

The only credible defence on 11/9/01 was mounted by some passengers...... all now deceased.

Much as I would like to see us maintain a strike force I can't see them shooting down a airliner full of civilians to keep us safe as a reason for their exiistance.

clutchcargo
19th Oct 2002, 23:20
does she still think we live in a benign society???

I think that now is the time for the govt to admit they made a mistake and commit more than 0.1% of GDP to defense spending. I don't care if they call it in the name fighting terrorism.

Or maybe they still think that 1200nm of water is far enough away for this thing not to happen.

My hat goes off to the professionalism of the RNZAF (or whats left of it) in the light of recent events.

jungly
23rd Oct 2002, 06:30
Agreed!

Lets think of what has happened since the Right Honorable and obviously very astitute, lunatic in charge of NZ made her in-famous speech about the Sth Pacific being a benign military environment?

2 x Fiji Coups
Psuedo civil-war, Solomon Islands
East Timor
Bougainville
Bali

What inspiring foresight and dynamic leadership. Has there been a new NZDF 'white paper' since 9/11, or are they still working towards her insane view of the world?

And yet the fickle kiwi voter let her disband the only offensive regular force* units she has........... oh, and then they voted her and the mickey mouse club in for a second term! Bravo....., well done you!

*not including SAS as RF but rather SF unit. (v. sorry to hear of the lads wounded in Afganistan yesterday.)

CT7
23rd Oct 2002, 09:33
GOG,
I agree with your sentiment. When one of our Frigates was being shot (small calibre) at off E Timore, we moved further off shore. So the locals then opened up with a .50 cal. Did they fire back,....no! Just moved further away.

When same Frigate was buzzed more then 3 times by an Indo Fighter (remember they have the Exocet!!) did they lock on and light it up...no! Even when urged to by the Aussies...

So shoot anything down, nah, you must be joking. This Govt wouldn't know what to do!

Raingauge
23rd Oct 2002, 10:14
why does NZ need an airforce, it looks so small on the map I would have thought a couple of tanks could cruise around the coast in a day, detering any threats.

Flight Detent
23rd Oct 2002, 12:19
Hi all,
Does anybody know what the Kiwi airforce P3's are doing now, never hear of them.
I guess they have 'dumped' their anti-submarine roll, and are just doing coastal survelliance and fisheries patrols throughout their own coastal areas, and for other South Pacific countries.

Anybody really know?
They operate several ex-RAAF P3B's, in which I learned the real 'ropes'!
That's some time ago now though!

Cheers

Buster Hyman
23rd Oct 2002, 12:30
How about giant statues of her around the coast, just like on Easter Island! Who needs defence, when you've got a head like that!!!:eek:

CT7
25th Oct 2002, 10:20
FLT Detent, we got one of your P-3B's I think in the late 80's, to add to the 5 we had (and then upgraded to K models) but I do know that 2 were used last Friday for a fly-past for Queeies 50th down the main drag. Quite a cool sound downtown, especially when u see them inbetween the buildings (but obviously they were higher..) maybe a lesson for the C-130 driver the following day....

Oh and Rainguage, we got more coast than the US of A! Mind you we are getting a hundred odd LAV IIIs. Although only the engineering facilities to use 20 odd so maybe the balance of 85 could do your coastal surv...... or go into war storage.

#1AHRS
25th Oct 2002, 21:42
Demo'd a Dash 8 200 MPA (maritime patrol aircraft) to the Kiwi customs and fisheries 18 months or so back. We flew over an area that had previously been covered by a P3 and they advised us that they didnt expect to find much out there. To their dismay we found allsorts of illegal fishing type activities by foriegn vessels well inside the NZ Economic zone along with quite a few dubious looking "local" type vessels with no rego markingsdoing the same. The fisho's were literally frothing at the mouth at what they saw. Obviously the front line were convinced that NZ needs an upgrade of its fisheries protection however it certainly hasn't filtered back to the those in the beehive.

Fris B. Fairing
25th Oct 2002, 22:29
CT7

For what it's worth:

P-3B A9-291 was sold to the RNZAF as NZ4206 on 30th April 85. It was subsequently converted to a P-3K. This was the only RAAF Orion sold to NZ.

Cheers

clutchcargo
26th Oct 2002, 01:10
The biggest problem with the RNZAF (no offense intended) is that they work to a schedule and keep to routines.

So.... once the illegal fishing boys work out what the schedule is they find it very easy to keep everything legal (while being watched).

I am not surprised you found alot of that stuff going on, as they would have thought you were an airline (until it was too late).

CT7
27th Oct 2002, 01:06
Fris B. Fairing

Ta, I thought so.