View Full Version : MyTravel in financial trouble

Racing Snake
17th Oct 2002, 12:16
From the BBC website

More than £300m ($466m) was wiped off the market value of MyTravel after the UK holiday company admitted there were problems with its accounts.
The company, formerly known as Airtours, is best known on the High Street for its Going Places chain of travel agents.

It warned investors that its profits could be £50m lower because of the accounting problems and a drop in sales.

I have... instigated a comprehensive review of our commercial activities and financial processes

David Crossland, chairman
The news sent the company's shares tumbling 82% to 13 pence, although by early afternoon they had crawled back to 25p.

It was the second time in two weeks that the firm had said its profits would fall below expectations.

After the last warning the chief executive Tim Byrne resigned.

MyTravel said that since that last trading update, on 30 September, "a number of additional matters have come to light".

Acounting hole

MyTravel said profits would be £12m lower than expected because trading in the UK at the end of this summer had been worse than anticipated.

And a further £8m would be wiped off profits because of a hole in the accounts.

MyTravel Group
MyTravel package holidays
Late Escapes holiday business
Going Places travel agents
MyTravel and MyTravel Lite airlines
North European and US travel businesses

As well as those amounts, the company said it might have to make revisions to accounting estimates.

Those revisions could take £15m-30m off profits.

The move comes days after corporate troubleshooter David James warned, in an exclusive interview with BBC News Online, that accounting errors were set to prompt a spate of "major crises" in UK firms.

In-house review

MyTravel chairman and founder David Crossland saw his 10% shareholding in the company fall on Thursday morning to about £6m from almost £40m the evening before.

He said he had instigated a detailed review of the group's commercial activities and financial processes.

MyTravel has appointed the head of its North American operation, Peter McHugh, as the new chief executive.

17th Oct 2002, 12:45
This would be the same David James that troubleshot Dan-Air and then saw them sold for a pound and still considered it a success is it? A success because he and his team AND the banks all got their share before selling the company down the river. How somebody as good as him could miss that wacking great tax credit still beggars belief.
Tell him to keep his damned nose out of my company.

17th Oct 2002, 12:58
......quote taken out of context, from another article, broadcast before the "hole" at MyTravel was discovered.

Nothing printed appears to connect DJ with MyTravel.

17th Oct 2002, 16:13
I wonder how many other UK Holiday companies will be revising their profit forecasts downwards. Surely it can't only be My Travel which is experiencing difficult trading conditions.

17th Oct 2002, 18:28
thanks for that, it is the most reassuring thing I've heard today. Just seeing his name again brought a shiver to my spine.

Pilot Pete
17th Oct 2002, 18:53
City analysts (on the BBC) saying the company is still very sound which I don't doubt for one minute.........boy those shares were good value at 15p a piece eh Tailscrape?


17th Oct 2002, 19:34
Get real folks - Byrne gone, chief pilot gone, several profit warnings, withdrawal of dividend. This lot need a lot of luck and eventually a big wreath. RIP !

17th Oct 2002, 19:54
Sad day if DJ got involved.

Dan Air was a fiasco as all will remeber.

17th Oct 2002, 21:23
Financial press report reads 'My Travel is likely to have to sell off one of its crown jewels, possibly the My Travel Airways charter airline with its fleet of more than 30 planes'. If this should transpire remember tupe.

17th Oct 2002, 22:55
What will cause MY Travel's demise, IF it is going to happen, is two things. Passengers changing travel arrangements for next summer - worrying about MY still being able to "deliver." That will hit profits yet again, and will break a few straws on the way.

And the announced whopping "black hole" of £50m that Arthur Andersen's dodgy accounting practices have created, and spotted by Deloittes. No way back from that. It will break them if the shares don't lift above the pittance they are now. Know colleagues who have/had shares that were worth a bomb, now they are worth virtually bu@@er all! And, don't forget the pension fund, that will be a source of interesting specualtion in the next few days.

Better hope that David James doesn't get involved. But if he is employed by a bank or an administrator he knows his first job is to secure HIS substantial fee and what is owed to the employer who put him there. He even knows how to avoid letting Customs and Inland Revenue get in first - now that IS clever. He is ruthless, and that is being nice!

The airline industry has in many ways created it's own dilemma by it's incestuous growth, problem is then all about gearing the debts that follow. If I were a small airline now I would be making lots of noisy promises about next summer's traffic uptake.

Sorry FD drivers but you are going to have to sweat for a while, and the smell ain't gonna be none too sweet. But I do wish you well.

18th Oct 2002, 10:23
In the "financial press" this morning(18/10) news is that the company, now worth just £140m, is "viable" until next March, when current banking arrangements need to be renewed.

Doubts were expressed about their ability to redeem a £220m convertible bond, due in March 2004. This forms part of the group's regulatory capital, necessary under Civil Aviation Authority rules for a licence to fly holidaymakers, and secured by "assets which are readily recoverable"!

However, it will almost certainly require some asset sales from MyTravel. Top of the list are Cresta and Leger, both of which may be subject to a management buy-out, and also TSI, the American Travel Agency bought in 2000 for £240m. Other suggestions include £100m from the sale of their freehold hotels.

Apparently, yesterday LunnPoly(TUI) took MyTravel brochures off their shelves, due to the uncertainty. Mind you, it is some time since I saw a MyTravel brochure in Lunn Poly anyway!

18th Oct 2002, 18:36
And, don't forget the pension fund, that will be a source of interesting specualtion in the next few days.

MYT pensions are money purchase , so not accessable by the company.:D

18th Oct 2002, 18:56
And the announced whopping "black hole" of £50m that Arthur Andersen's dodgy accounting practices have created, and spotted by Deloittes.

Please remember that it is the company directors who pick the accounting policy, not the auditors. The auditors merely review the policies to ensure they comply with accounting standards, and ensure that the treatment of the numbers is consistent with those policies.

The "black hole" is the creation of the directors. Period. They are the ones who are responsible for the accounts and sign them off as "true and fair".

The fault primarily rests with them.

18th Oct 2002, 20:59
More than a touch naive if I may say so 10bob

The fact is that the downturn in business was not reported a fortnight ago and was forced by Deloitte's. This was as a result of Andersen's 'potential revision's.' What the directors sign for is that which they and the auditors agree to. It was in fact a method adopted by Andersen's in favour of Enron. The directors, therefore, were left with no alternative than to resign. A signature is laid on the company's accounts as a direct result of those which their auditors give them. Collusion might be a word to use, but who can tell? The dirtectors might yet feel the wrath of law.

MY travel have to rely on credit from their bankers, Barclay's and Royal Bank of Scotland, for a renewal of £250m of those credit facilities. That has been shelved for the moment to see where the airline goes.

Don't ever misunderstand the power of the banks!

However, tour operators are withdrawing their business already. When the confidence in their ability to produce the profits they forecast takes a dive so does the airline. Hard facts but nonetheless facts.

It is a tough and ruthless business.

18th Oct 2002, 21:17
What will finish Mytravel is a lot of speculation that they are about to go bust. It won't matter that they are making money or that they have assets! A lot of speculation in the press and uninformed information circulating can do a hell of a lot of damage.

The likes of Lunn Poly are taking action to try and ensure the end of one of their main rivals. As for the total C#$$ regarding the pension fund, give me a break where does this information come from.

If these informed city insiders are so good at predicting the future of a company why are pensions, endowments etc in such a poor state? The only folks stealing from the Mytravel pension fund are the brokers who have lost a small fortune for us this year, the so called city insiders. These guys have no more idea of what is going to happen next than anyone else. They probably get their hot poop from CNN the BBC or this forum like the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys this is a rumour network but we all owe it to each other to be responsible. False rumour and idle speculation costs jobs. It may be yours next, or mine!

There is a storm coming in our industry and it's name is George Bush! Good luck to us all.

18th Oct 2002, 21:49
Spot on Kinsman. I used to work up there and thats exactly how it works! The only thing the city boys are interested in is how they can make there buck, regardless of how it affects companys or ther employees!!! :confused:

763 jock
18th Oct 2002, 22:17
Back you up 110% kinsman. The jets are all FULL with pax. I hope that this is the end to bad news but the media seem determined to destroy the company. Crossland & Co need to come out on Monday AM with the gloves off. MYT will still make a PROFIT. Most of the carriers on the Ocean last night are losing money hand over fist. Hard times, but the company will prevail.:cool:

19th Oct 2002, 08:51

763 jock
19th Oct 2002, 09:01
So when exactly did Crossland "buy ILG's defunct airline"?

kick the tires
19th Oct 2002, 09:10
763 Jock,

The jets may be "FULL", but that doesn't mean to say those seats/holidays were sold at a profit. IT companies will sell the last seats/holidays at a loss just to recoup some of the money they have already spent on the products.

Better to sell a 500.00 holiday for 100.00 than not sell it at all.

19th Oct 2002, 09:13
Strikes me that the problem in the industry is that everybody is undercutting everybody else.
We need more margins within the industry. The yields are just too low. (In all sectors)

19th Oct 2002, 09:31
Too right Icepack, but who is big (or clever) enough to start building margins whilst not losing custom to cheaper rivals...

19th Oct 2002, 11:08
You do appreciate that this is the exact same scenario that pertained back in the 'eighties with Laker and Air Europe?

The likes of BA and PanAm were highly disenchanted that Laker was, as they saw it, creaming of some of 'their' traffic across the pond, as were BA and BCAL when Air Europe started operating short haul schedules to certain European destinations.

The solution then was to get the 'cheap' opposition out of the market place, by hook or by crook, usually, in the case of Laker at least, by crook

19th Oct 2002, 16:26
Still disagree CaptainFillosan .

Accounting standards in the UK are open for interpretation and Deloittes may well interpret things more strictly than Andersen's had in the past, but that doesn't negate the directors responsibility over the accuracy of the accounts.

While Andersens may not be wholly innocent, this is not a result of Andersens' "dodgy accounting practices" as you put it. It is a result of the accounting policies the directors chose to adopt. Andersens interpreted the standards one way and signed off an opinion on the truth and fairness of the accounts. Deloittes decided that this was too agressive and said they would not sign without revision.

And beware when quoting Enron. Up until the moment the Houston office got the shredding machine out, you may well find that Andersens did nothing wrong over Enron. The treatment of the offshore vehicles in the Enron accounts was wholly in accordance with US standards. Andersens are a scapegoat for the failure of US legislation - which they proclaimed to be the best in the world!

19th Oct 2002, 17:09
FLS line maint will prob finish off 'Y' Travel....................

19th Oct 2002, 17:22
Where accounting is concerned I rather suspect there is no smoke without fire here. 2 profit warnings in as many weeks suggests to me that the gravity of the situation is serious and that a lack of support from the city and the eventual withdrawal of customer confidence, may cause the whole outfit to unravel.

My guess and I hope I'm wrong is that the group will be broken up into pieces. At the end of the day the capacity will be picked up by others who will expand as a result but that will be of little comfort for those working there at the moment who probably cannot believe what is going on around them.

20th Oct 2002, 06:46
Although Air Europe's demise was largely self inflicted, like Laker a very big crook was used to help it over the edge. I just hope the removal of MY Travel products from the shelves of rivals travel agencies will not have the same effect in this present crisis.

20th Oct 2002, 08:29
Lunn Poly etc took MYT holidays off their shelves weeks ago over an argument regarding prices. They are now just taking advantage of the situation by putting a spin on their actions.
Cynical on their part but only to be expected.

As most have known for a long time this industry is on a knife edge following September 11. It may well be that we are just the first company to run into problems, more may well follow! The trick will be to pick the survivors, I for one have not written MYT off.

As for loosing customers, yes we will lose some but the financial press asume our customers are as interested in this issue as we are. Most still don't kmow who MYT is. Many of our holidays are still sold under other names and anyway folks have very short memories. It is not that long ago First Choice was widley tipped to disappear, now Peter Long has made them the darlings of the city. A week is a long time in politics and finance.

If MYT goes at least we will be at the head of the job que and at the moment there are enough jobs around to absorb our pilots. The jobs may not be exactly where we want to be but a job is a job. As I said before good luck to everyone in the industry, many of us have been here before, ride it out the good times will return.

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst is the best way to survive this industry!;)

20th Oct 2002, 08:41
Rumour has it (Sunday Times) that 3i are having a look.
Will they be able to persuade Babs to move from SW1 to M14?:p

20th Oct 2002, 10:01
If 3i, or any other group, are becoming involved it surely signals the end. If any rescue takes place and I doubt it very much due to debt commitments, it will be purely for the purposes of asset stripping. The next critical step in the death throes will be the news that the airline is paying cash for fuel. The slippery slope accelerates soon after that.

20th Oct 2002, 10:12
So as long as the pilots have jobs to go to, even if they are not what they really want, that's okay then KINSMAN???

I'm sorry, but there is more at stake than you two at the pointy end.........and cabin crew jobs are not a plenty at the moment, not too mention travel agents, overseas reps, admin staff........ the list is endless.

:mad: :mad:

20th Oct 2002, 10:18
10bob, your right to disagree of course. However, I made a reference to collusion and perhaps it should not be dismissed.

You are correct in saying that the directors must take responsibility for anything that happens in a company they run. It goes without saying. However, Byrne left the company with £1m handout. What the hell for? If the company was already aware of its problems that is reprehensible, whatever the agreed package was when he joined. Then there is David Jardine, the financial director, the same one who issued two pfrofit warnings within two weeks of each other! Why is he still there? A good question I think.

Well his position must be untenable by now. But his background is interesting. He went to Airtours/MYT from Arthur Andersen in 2000 as finance director but as a partner in Andersens he was involved in Airtours for much longer. A lot of questions to which there may not be forthcoming answers. The connection stinks in my view, and perhaps he might be asked those questions, especially if administrators are appointed. An option which could prove to be the best in the long run.

Now there is talk that the company will be broken up. I can't understand that but everyone in MYT should hope that Peter McHugh, the new chief executive, and Philip Jansen the new chief operating officer, can turn things around pdq. There is plenty of money in the bank and there are plenty of assets - thus making the company far from insolvent. What they have to do is get the confidence of their customers settled and convince the workforce that there is life in MYT.

You can bet that the Venture Vultures are hovering with beaks sharpened to buy any break-up for much less than its real value. They are good at that.

David Crossland has to convince their bankers to keep the £230m facilities in place. Then convince travel peeps that all is well.

Indeed, David Crossland has an enormous responsibility to everyone who works at MYT. That not only will he save the company but all of their jobs too. If he allows a breakup of the company that will be the end. Gone!

20th Oct 2002, 11:35
Sunday Times reckons that the non-execs are trying to block byrne getting his hand-out. Apparently it is owed to him due to his original contract.

20th Oct 2002, 12:29
Definite case of questionable accounting. Apparently £900 million in off-balance-sheet aircraft leasing liabilities. The people responsible or should I say irresponsible should be thrown in jail. Definite cooking of the books to show a profit, and it must have been going on for some time as well.

As a pilot, I hope that someone moves in and takes MT over quickly so that as many jobs of innocent employees as possible can be saved.


20th Oct 2002, 15:58
Off balance sheet assets are simply aircraft on operating lease. Aircraft owned or on Financial lease are shown in the company accounts as assets. Operating leases are the same as hiring a car from Hertz.

I'm afraid that one of the hallmarks of the industry at the moment is that there is never enough money to pay the staff a proper salary and always enough to pay the Directors their 1 Year contracted salary and bonus however badly they do; it's called looking after No 1.


Lou Scannon
20th Oct 2002, 16:01
Looking at the airline part of My Travel: The best hope it has are probably the slots that it holds. These may well turn out to be the big difference between the ease with which the competitors managed to push Laker and Air Europe over the edge and the present situation. In those days, the slots couldn't be traded or sold with the airline as an asset.

In a liquidation situation, the aircraft could probably all be re-leased at a far cheaper rate than My Travel are paying and the crews and staff hired at a lower rate than they are at present earning.

For the sake of the My Travel employees, let's hope that the slots make it worth buying the airline as a going concern.

Been there, done that on more than one occasion-so I have every sympathy with those not at director level.

20th Oct 2002, 16:09
if the rumoured venture capital 'rescue' price is correct at 750 mio...that would value the shares at around 80p..as against the closing price on friday of around 18p.(having traded as low as 12p)
Shurley shome mishtake?
or maybe fill yer boots!(only for the brave,no widows/orphans etc.) ;)

Mr Angry from Purley
20th Oct 2002, 17:26
Captain Fillosan
Sunday Times states "CROSSLAND: £1M a year but its not his fault. Eh?
"If Crosslands position looks unstable those of Jardine the Finance Director and Eric Sanderson, the Senior non executive, are utterly untenable.
Jardine, who has presided over an accounting fiasco that has the hallmarks of a mini-enron must go"

The articles in the Sunday Times make worrying reading, how can it go wrong in such a short space of time?, and is this what happens when bean counters run the business (Byrne was previously Financial Director).

Above all loss of customer confidence will be the problem, both Holiday Makers bookings and suppliers asking for their money quicker.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

20th Oct 2002, 20:25

I know what it means, but £900mill liability is £900 mill liability, and that is a lot for a firm that had income of £30mill last year.

20th Oct 2002, 20:42

Do you mean £30 million profit? Income (turnover) was circa £5 billion.

I still find it hard to believe that a company such as MyTravel can have its fortunes turned around so rapidly. Post 9/11 everyone was saying that MYT was about the safest of the charter operators - no redundancies and a relatively positive outlook. Of course it is becomming apparent that a lot of this was just hot air.

It defies belief that the directors were not aware of what was going on - and now 27,000 employees face an extremely bleak future :mad: I'm sure they won't be walking out the door with 2 years salary in the pockets

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


21st Oct 2002, 08:51
Just to rub it in, BBC reports(18/10) that David Crosland's take-home pay increased by 70% in the year ended September 2001. Not surprised he is not saying much at the moment!

He will probably live to regret saying - "As largest shareholder in this group they have my total support," about his directors, including Byrne, at the time of the previous profits warning.

21st Oct 2002, 09:55
A4, Yes Income is the same term as profit, Turnover is the same as Sales or Revenue.

21st Oct 2002, 12:13
Mr. Crossland cancelled his appearance at the British Travel Industry conference today...probably having his testes toasted over a slow fire by the bankers/begging the major shareholders/nonexecs not to hang him just yet, or something along those lines

21st Oct 2002, 12:35

5,000,000,000 GBP turnover.

Possible Fiction:

30,000,000 GBP profit.

All well and good, because profit is profit, however the margins are tiny in the good times and My Travel have deceived the market this year.

A 30,000,000 GBP profit may not exist after the bean counters really get stuck in.....and that would finish the whole thing off totally.

Bad news comes in Three's. This is the fourth profits warning from this mob now, so perhaps another two to come????

I believe the shares will slide through 12pence and into single figures. And before you ask, I used to trade AIRTOURS shares in the City before I changed careers to IT flying.......so, hence my guess work on the price theory.

They are 19pence now. How many would you like me to sell you??

The following faces show how the reaction of the city has gone.......let's hope there is not more to come.

.:eek: :confused: :eek: :( :eek: :mad:

763 jock
21st Oct 2002, 14:43
Tailscrape, if you are so smart then why are you stuck with MT shares for sale? Surely YOU could have seen all this coming months ago. :rolleyes: :confused:

21st Oct 2002, 15:35
763 Jock, don't be wound up by the previous poster, he's a shellsuit, and whilst the majority of our colleagues will have empathy (there but for the grace of God etc.) there will always be the odd one or two smart alecs wanting to gloat. I don't know why, but there you are. Perhaps he was abused in his former life in the city, or is now as a 75 F/O :rolleyes:

21st Oct 2002, 16:12
763 Jock,

I do not have any MT shares to sell. I have NEVER owned any MT shares personally. So, perhaps I AM smart in that respect. But that is not the point.

It would seem you are employed by a company in trouble ( in my opinion) which is a shame, but not surprising. Whilst all others made cuts and suffered, MT sat back,spent money and bullsh?tted that they were fine....... you believed it as employees and shareholders.

The industry needs MT to survive therefore I hope you do that and that you keep your job, but face it.... your shares are damn near worthless and you are in deep sh?t. Don't blame me, just because I was formerly a City Trader, and equally don't assume anything about my personality please.


I am not a Shellsuit. Nor would I want to be a Shellsuit.

And as for being a 757 F/O, you are correct. I am, and I am happy to be.

After all, it would be impressive if I had got Command in my first Commercial job in less than 2 years......with insufficient hours for command.

Oh, but I could have doctored my logbook.

My comments on MT are based on the FACTS we know them, and my personal opinion....... which is at least as valid as yours seeing as I have all my professional "City" exams.........and an ATPL....... do you have all of these things too?

I am justing pointing out my opinion, so to you as well, calm down........ this whole board works on rumour,gossip,opinion and boll?cks being talked..........by everyone. Don't be so f'ing precious!!!!

21st Oct 2002, 16:39

if you are not a shellsuit and have never owned MT shares then what is that post on the 2bob forum about then or are you telling porkies !?!

.............by the way shellsuit is a nickname for 2bob because of the lovely paint job and uniforms:D :p

21st Oct 2002, 16:42

Quite frankly sir, I couldn't give a toss whether you are an expert on all matters "City" or not, and nor do I personally agree with your opinion. You are entitled to it, as is everyone, and I respect you for your views, but please do try to bear in mind the feelings of those who are at the moment worried whether they are going to be able to pay their mortgages next month. This is an extremely worrying time for us in MYT, and I have been heartened by the many kind words of support I have received in passing from nearly every other crewmember I have seen, from many different airlines.
Whether we go bust or not, which I personally don't think is going to happen but we'll see, comments such as yours only serve to inflame the feelings of those who are already feeling more than a little tender. For example

"but face it.... your shares are damn near worthless and you are in deep sh?t. Don't blame me "

Not helpful. I hope that you never find yourself in this situation, because I along with many others on this forum can tell you without reservation - it's not nice!
As I say, I respect you for your views, but please try and empathise with your fellow professionals who may be staring unemployment in the face through no fault of their own instead of making unhelpful comments. A few words of support might be nice!

And don't start me on City "experts" - they have been the downfall of many a good company. The only thing they are interested in is trading volume and their respective bonuses. Don't tell me it's not true - I used to work there too. :rolleyes:

21st Oct 2002, 17:40
One of Tailscrape past posted will give you his company info.


21st Oct 2002, 17:47
Dear Tailscrape

I think everyone owes you a huge apology, you clearly are not a shell suit. This man clearly has great expertise in the Banking world!!!!!

Congratulations on the new job by the way 767 Jock. :D

21st Oct 2002, 19:54
Dear all

According to our company web site we sold a lot of holidays over the weekend despite the press reports. We also seem to have the support of ABTA and so far the CAA. We are told we will still make a sizeable profit, the details if which will become clear in November.

Now I am sure tailscrape will tell us that this is all BS but I am inclined to look on the positive side and believe them.;)

21st Oct 2002, 20:10
I am not one to sit in judgement on anyone, my career and my experience are my own affair, and I don't normally comment on the unwise and daft detractors.

However, I am prepared to make one concession to this and just say to tailscrape that his outbursts are usually indicative of someone desperately trying to make a point without making it at all.

This from him is a good indication of what I aver. His opinion of what is actually happening at the moment bears no relation to fact. What I have written IS fact - as it is reported.

I am justing pointing out my opinion, so to you as well, calm down........ this whole board works on rumour,gossip,opinion and boll?cks being talked..........by everyone. Don't be so f'ing precious!!!!

See the point I make. It is best to let the ranters rant. Ignore them without comment and continue with a most important subject. They soon go away.

In that regard I note that Barclays have scrapped their facilities with MYT bad, but not unusual. RBS have not said anything yet and they will probably await the outcome of their people who must be in there by now.

I daesay that as the company is profitable, and it is seen as saveable, as I said before it has a lot of cash and good assets. The £900m in aircraft leasing is a sword that most airlines carry.

What is worrying is the urgent request by 'whoever' that MYT prepares fresh accounts dating back to 2000. What that means is that there is doubt as to their veracity. Should then MYT's credibility come into question - then nasty worms can turn.

For the time being, wild and dangerous assumptions do not do our colleagues any good at all. I feel for them. They must be worried sick. It happened to me three times. As it tends to do in this industry.

Just DO NOT jump to conclusions before the facts have been stated. And don't listen to the 'mongers' - whatever prefix they have chosen.

Give a dog a beach
21st Oct 2002, 20:20
I sincerly wish all at MYT the very best in the future, no true proffesional on this site wishes to see more job losses in our industry.

The problem is that the facts dont lie.

MYT have massive debts and the so called GBP 30 million profit is nothing on a turnover of some GBP 5 billion. Surely this and more will be taken up just supporting there debt.

The biggest problem facing MYT is the accounting irregularities. I am hearing from many quarters that there are more holes coming to light and when these are announced the share will collapse even further.

The only way out now will be to scale down and sell off assets. IMHO I think Cresta will be one of the 1st to go....

Before you all nail me to the cross (like you do so many), I am only telling it how I see it. I am afraid things are alot worse than they seem... and they seem very bad.

Once again I hope as many jobs can be saved as possable... and If there is any anger to be vented, then send it Crosslands way ??
We all know he will be alright !!

21st Oct 2002, 20:46
Give A Dog A Beach - You may be right about the further accounting problems but the only folks who have the true answer to that are the auditors and the MYT board, anyone else is just speculating like the rest of us. As for the shares collapsing, well with the current share price it would be more of a gentle flop!

Frankly I am very angry and disappointed with our board and accountants, this is a great company and did not need sharp practice to survive. :(

El Grifo
21st Oct 2002, 21:00
All I can add to the debate is, that I was given the go ahead today for a 3 week photo shoot in Thailand for the Winter 2004 Airtours Brochure.

Either the Brochure Production Dept is fiddling whilst Rome burns, or continuity is the name of the game.

Airtours is dead - - - - long live MYT

:) :cool: :)

21st Oct 2002, 21:23
Whilst not wanting to be even more depressing........MYT may post a profit, they may be stable, all the necessary directors may be disposed of, the accounts may be found in order............However, if the people who pay our wages in this industry, stop booking holidays, game over.

So far there has been very little impact on mainstream media about MYT, it seems to have been limited to city news and financial info. I am sure it was posted a while ago that if this manages to get onto front page newspapers, it will decimate MYT.

I sincerely hope for everyone's case that there is responsible journalism about it. The last thing we need is scaremongering with the travel industry which is in a fragile state for all operators at the moment.

My support goes out to all employees of one of my former companies, keep your heads up high !!;) ;)

El Grifo
21st Oct 2002, 21:34

I for one, will drink to that Amigo.

I will drink to that.

21st Oct 2002, 21:50
Started doing ground handling for MYT again way back in april. Remember it like it was yesterday, We told the Company (Ringway) Dont do it we cried. You remember what happened last time we did it. But did they listen , Not a word. Well here we are at the end of the season, Far from being wiser we are on the verge of going under.But look I see a light at the end of the tunnel is that Mr My Travel down there with his wallet out. Yes it is . I heared the contract was up for renewal. Heard rumour we need an extra 15% off this lot to turn us back into profit after this summer. What with all the Type changes and aircrft going late.

But No Mr MYT is asking for a reduction on last years prices.

Can we do it...... I think Not.

Silver trails left by Snails.

21st Oct 2002, 23:32
How you can even think about asking for any money in respect of what laughably passes for ground handling makes my blood boil !
We have consistently over the season,had to wait for tugs to get us away on time,and steps when we get back.
Try getting your house in order and you might be worth what we (over)paid you last year.

22nd Oct 2002, 07:24
My point is not that I wish hard luck on MT employees, as I stated I hope MT survives, because the industry needs stability.

Equally it is not about whether or not I am right or wrong. Everyone can have an opinion on this forum.

The facts remain that the shares have collapsed to a current quote of 19p to 19.75p, the business is in trouble ( and has been for some time it would seem), and there has been rumour of financial scullduggery.

If you lot want to slate me for stating the bleedin obvious, then go ahead. You cannot hide the facts as Tim Byrne has found out to his substantial cost. And to shareholders cost.

It all smells of building a business on sandy foundations, and that does not last forever.

Byrne pushed, Crossland in, new auditors.......who is to say the bad news is finished? Will they find more hidden nonsense.

Arrogance maybe, but common sense definitely. If people do not want to agree with me that is fine, because we can all believe what we want.

I hope everyone stays employed, and that you recover under decent stewardship. It may take a little while though.

22nd Oct 2002, 07:49
Black_Bush ,
whilst you may be currently experiencing what you regard to be poor quality from your ground handler, why dont you pause and think why that may be? Could it have anything to do with the dutch auction that the airlines force upon ground handlers every time contracts come up for renewal? you may moan about poor service, but what do you expect when you refuse to pay for good service. And if you are employed by a certain MAN based airline then you can probably expect bad service, due to the consistent inability to arrive anywhere near your scheduled times. having worked at over 10 locations around Europe where we handled AIH/ MYT at least this was consistent.

22nd Oct 2002, 08:52
Is this a case of peanuts and monkeys ? or is it a MAN problem?

Most of the MYT bases other than MAN consistently depart/ arrive on schedule or early.

22nd Oct 2002, 09:31

Emotions are high, at times like this we need to focus on what is going right as an industry, we as pilots have no control over what is going wrong at board level. The fact is there will be non aviation types reading these forums. No one outside the industry at the moment wants to write good news and I am sure the odd reporter drops in here for some dirt and rumour.

Nobody has the facts at the moment, rumour can cost jobs and ruin a company, so if you don't have facts keep the bad rumours out of the public domain for all our sakes, PLEASE!

22nd Oct 2002, 09:32

Run that by me again. Airtours/MyTravel average delay for 2001 given as 54.2 mins/flight. Has there been an improvement this year?

763 jock
22nd Oct 2002, 10:32
Yes. Massive improvement.

22nd Oct 2002, 10:36

I do agree (and sympathise) with you, but what I have said is nothing that has not been said before in the press.

My opinion is not worth more than yours as I have stated before (perhaps just more hard nosed and focused) , and I am reasonably certain that most people would not listen to ONE voice anyway.

I hope the rainclouds disperse for you, I really do,but as I said earlier I still think it will take a long time though (and I hope that I am proven wrong in that there is no more pain to come).

Good luck, but don't let people accuse me of being "gloating" or whatever. My opinions come from some experience of a market that does not like nasty surprises or scandal.

Let's hope that the next reports don't show a deterioration in the accounts for 2001/2002. After all, these were not even the figures that the City were due to be shown. And this has not exactly been a good year for Tour Operators....... anyway, fingers crossed.

If they can avoid another scandal, things should hopefully recede into a nasty memory and improve from there.

carlos vandango
22nd Oct 2002, 16:34
MYT's delay stats have reduced down to an average of 22mins this year....apparently

22nd Oct 2002, 18:10
The black hole in the accounts, according to todays financial press, suggest that the downturn in figures apply only to the current trading year in the UK. The financial numbers for Germany and USA markets are currently being reviewed. Furthermore, the past few years "profits" are possibly due for "adjustment". The total debt is rumoured to be as high as £1.5 Billion !!!

23rd Oct 2002, 09:36
Are those figures audited by Andersen?

23rd Oct 2002, 10:06
No Andersens were taken over. Now all their accountants work for other Auditors. Then again Andersens have a bad name because they got caught, how many other dodgy Auditors are there?

Look at the corruption in the Pensions and Investment industry and these same city slickers try to tell others how to run their industries! Am I alone in seeing a certain double standard in the world of high finance. I have to say some of the reporting and quotes I have seen from some analysts leads me to believe they have no more idea about the what is coming next than I do.

If I got it wrong as often as these guys, I would have died in a nasty accident years ago!

Edited so as not to upset the Texans, After all we don't want to give George W another reason to start a war!!!:p

23rd Oct 2002, 11:30
That's "Andersens ": there is another Andersons in Houston, and they got angry at some postings on ****edcompany.com back when Andersens were busy collapsing!

23rd Oct 2002, 12:12

Thanks for the correction! I see you have the same book of quotes that a lot of others seem to have. Must look out my copy!

Perhaps if Auditors and MP's etc did a bit more Thinking rather than "spin spin spin" we would all be rather better of right now!:p

23rd Oct 2002, 17:16
Never mind the Falcon, my Zlin is for sale........

Private Message me !

23rd Oct 2002, 18:59
Long, long, ago in an Airline now long gone, a wise man (who owned a drinks vending machine company) said to me, "when the company starts charging for the drinks in the crew room it's time to worry". So far my tea is still free!

Flat spin whats a GEX and how much do they want for the Falcon?;)

LGW Vulture
23rd Oct 2002, 20:10
Earlier production machines going for US$16 M:eek:

Fair few on the market just now (approx 20).....they should expect offers sub US$20M!!!

p.s. P C Aviation????????

......Life now is only Bizjets.................

23rd Oct 2002, 21:46
So does this mean a GEX is an exec jet? In which case why do we have two? Silly question.:confused: :confused: :confused:

23rd Oct 2002, 21:56
Please keep to the topic. Aircraft sales are elsewhere in cyberspace, and no place here.

24th Oct 2002, 08:15
This is sticking to the topic, do we own one or two exec aircraft?

If the company are selling them off it is a more interesting indicator than some of the other posts I have read here to date.

I was under the impression we only owned the Falcon jet.:confused:

24th Oct 2002, 08:31
Do you own them or lease them - financial or operating?

24th Oct 2002, 08:52
Sad to say I have no idea! I hope we own them as they are not "core", selling them seems like a good move at the moment.:confused:

LGW Vulture
24th Oct 2002, 08:52
Global is Crossland's, 900B is Airtours - the latter not on operating lease but might be mortgaged!


.........Life now is only Bizjets.........................

24th Oct 2002, 08:54
LGW vulture

Thanks for that!

24th Oct 2002, 10:15
They are just assets, and smell of someone trying to prove that they ARE doing something. They are also irrelevant in the scheme of things.

The Mail reported yesterday, that fund managers think that Crossland must go. 'He's lost it. He has seriously misjudged the situation. There is a complete vacuum of information and competitors are filling it.'

It certainly seems that he has kept quiet since he returned. Most institutions want the senior non-executive, Eric Sanderson, to replace Crossland. With shares dropping again yesterday, and Crossland not giving any information to anyone, he is not doing the company or it's future much good at all. Wonder why that is?

24th Oct 2002, 10:40
One reason that the company is not coming out with all guns blazing is that they are in "closed period" i.e. in between year end and result publication. The company is NOT ALLOWED to make comments on certain items which might be deemed market sensitive.

This must be particularly frustrating when you are constantly being hammered and berrated in the press and your hands are tied as to what you can respond with.

It just a case of wait and see. Continuous rumour and speculation in the press does not help. Ill-informed comment can do huge damage - the company is having a bad time but can recover from this. I'm sure the 27000 staff have got everything crossed at the moment.


24th Oct 2002, 11:16
I think that puts it very well A4.

The company is keeping it's staff as well informed as it can, with almost daily updates. I would not comment in detail on this forum as to the news being passed to us for obvious reasons but the rumour the CAA are about to stop us flying was and is total rubbish!

As for the rest of the rumours, at the moment that is all they are. Wait and see, it may all come right yet.

As for Mr Crossland, he is the best man to save the company, if only because he now has something to prove! Anyone else would be just another employee, his lifes work and reputation are on the line. Very strong motivation to get it right.

After all is said and done, what ever the recent events, he has a proven record in this industry, which is more than can be said for some of the so called experts in the City.:p

24th Oct 2002, 11:25
Whilst walking in my local town ( in Sussex ) this morning, I had a quick look in most of the travel agents - Cook's, Lunn-Poly etc. Most had one or two customers. GoingPlaces (aka MYT ) was empty. Things don't look good even regarding daily cash-flow.

24th Oct 2002, 13:34
Of course Willoman, that one shop reflects the whole situation doesn't it!! Tell us something useful next time.

24th Oct 2002, 13:43
Come on Wiiloman - a one minute snap shot of how many customers are in your local Going Places is hardly enough to support your statement that cash flow does not look good.

Many pax have no idea which airline they flew on for their last holiday, let alone which tour operator owns which travel agent chain and airline

LGW Vulture
24th Oct 2002, 13:57
I've just walked past Boots the chemist and Christ! It was empty!!! Their cash- flow situation is now grave, anyone know a firm of local administrators??? :rolleyes:


........Life now is only Bizjets................

24th Oct 2002, 14:13
Itwasn't one shop - it was several travel shops. All had customers- Going places had none.

Passengers often don't know which airline they are boarding but they do know which agent has sold them the holiday.

Boots can afford occasionally empty shops - they don't owe £1.5 billion.

24th Oct 2002, 17:06
At this time of year. Travel Agents are generally quieter. Revenues drop to perhaps 15%-25% of their summer high as mainstream high street agents. You aim to have staff in training. Complete audits etc.

Depending on the agent, you can use a particular airline to promote sales. I have travelled on most charter airlines and we know the good from the bad. I don't think My Travel really has a serious problem. Yes they have a slump and yes they need to look at their products, but what everyone appears to be overlooking is. They will produce a pretty decent profit over the year. They do need to streamline their systems for next year. Overall I think capacity will hold or maybe slightly increase. But more so on getting aircraft to spend longer in the air rather than adding new capacity.

Slan Leat a Chaire.

Jet Set Sid

Hap Hazard
24th Oct 2002, 17:37
:( All the pontificating to one side, I would just like to say best of luck to you all at MYT, fingers crossed you will all come out of this mess ok.

24th Oct 2002, 17:38
Just to be a pedantic sod, willowman, as at end March 2002 Boots owed £1.753 billion.

Still, I take your point.


24th Oct 2002, 18:19
Willowman - You may be right but I have done my own visits (in sussex) to some of our shops. Funny old thing but they say all is fairly normal for the time of year. How many of our passengers know Going Places is owned by MYT? Many of our brands have not even been mentioned in the press, the only advantage to our name change last year seems to be that no one knows who we are.

Anyones guess how this will all end, I guess we will find out in a few weeks.

25th Oct 2002, 14:29
First Choice are considering buying MyTravel. There going for a rebrand launch under the name of My Last Travel Choice.

:p :p :p

25th Oct 2002, 15:56
I have been Skiing through Going Places for the last few years.
I will be going again with them next year.
Great deals, great staff, especially those in the resorts.

26th Oct 2002, 21:37
who's this imposter? (the skier)
what a load of cr4p for the last 7 pages.
tailscrape and kinsman.... maybe meeting for a drink in a
named place would clear the air, to talk football /0\/0\/0\
or someting else?
as for the falcon on a (jolly) and broken, how much would that
raise to impress the city. does the city care?
buy german not british, that'll show them. oh sorry no it won't
it'll just add to the woes.
p.s. thanks for the concern k(l)insman.
not everybody (believe it or not) who works for a travel company
is a pilot.

27th Oct 2002, 06:48

I would have sent this as a private message, as I did with PSR777, but frankly I feel your post is worthy of a public reply.

I see you are a new member, at least under your current identity! So perhaps you can be forgiven for not reading the small print under the title of this forum. It say's very clearly that this is a forum for Professional Pilots to discuss issues affecting their lives!

Perhaps given this fact you can forgive me for not expressing my deep concern for all the Cabin Crew, Agents, Office Staff, businesses both in UK and abroad who will have to lay staff off or go bust if MYT goes. I had assumed that most who read this forum have indeed seen much of this before and are well aware of the impact a large company folding can have on us all. Yes I am very concerned for the jobs of all those who work for MYT. I did not think that needed stating, certainly to my fellow Professional Pilots.

If Pilots discussing issues affecting thier lives on a pilots forum is a source of tension for you, well don't let the door hit you in the BTM as you leave! Have a nice day.

27th Oct 2002, 11:35
Have you always been arrogant kinsman or are you just practising?

You will just have to accept that there is a very large number of people who work at MYT, and each of them is just as concerned about their job as you are. Logically then, they would gather where the clan is, where they feel more comfortable, amongst their own. I doubt whether the PPRuNe masters have a problem with that, so why should you. Being a Professional Pilot is not a matter for them is it? Only those of us who are. It takes a lot of people to run a company. The air drivers only take what others give you take to their destinations - and bring home again. So why don't you just apologise and be nice in these difficult times?

BTW, you should the Mail on Sunday financial supplement there are things in there that will make your arrogance dim.

27th Oct 2002, 13:00
You missed the point!

This is a pilot forum so my reference in the post that seemed to upset the non pilots here, referred only to the situation effecting us! Far from arrogant but fed up with being told I am not considering the rest of my fellow workers. Try reading my last post again. Better still drop me your Email and we will discuss the matter.

All are welcome on this forum but for goodness sake will folks stop looking for insults when non exist. In plain English, I am very concerned not only for my fellow pilots but for all 27000 employees and all the support companies that work for us is this clear enough!!!!!!!!

If my reply to Dadaposh sounded arrogant that was not my intention. But frankly his/her remarks were uncalled for, inaccurate not to mention insulting.

As for reading the finacial mail, I gave that up some time ago far to depressing.:p

Tired and emotional:(

27th Oct 2002, 13:20
With respect I think you have missed the point also.

However, good on you that you recognise that the 'family' of workers might ask questions of anyone who they think may have an answer. Just be kind to them, they are hurting too.

Agree! Don't read the Financial Mail, it is a bit depressing. But I do hope that any forthcoming news is not for all of you at MYT. Like I said, it has happened to me three times before. It is not nice!

27th Oct 2002, 13:30
This will be number five for me! You would think by now we would be used to it!

If the press would stop speculating I am confident the company would survive but all the poor press reports based on not very reliable information may, see us off !:(

27th Oct 2002, 14:19
The problem is one of feeling so helpless, but do your best to think positive. I doubt that there is anyone who is not fighting tooth and nail to hold it together. Crossland has to make a good 'speech' in a day or two.

I just hope he keeps the two banks and that £230m facility in place. That without doubt is the key.

27th Oct 2002, 16:10
Could not agree more. Sadly the Mail report was on our company web site, so I have now read it! I think they have the story a little twisted but it stiil makes rather scary reading.

I wonder if they got the Falcon story from this forum!? If there are any Mail reporters here, thanks a bunch guys your making keeping our jobs really tough!

27th Oct 2002, 17:10

You really should try and take a chill pill. The Mail story is no more than a re-hash of ancient and well trodden titbits.

Typical Sunday morning journo trash from a spiv paper.

It does however highlight all the issues I have been concerned about.

In my humble opinion, I do not think this article makes any difference to My Travel surviving, and you keeping your job.

What will make the banks back MT is if the people who have presided over this whole mess are replaced pronto.

I think Crossland may struggle to convince the banks that he is the man to save MT. Therefore I think for MT to survive, he will be pushed.

After all, he appointed Byrne and supervised the destruction of his baby..... he cannot be held totally blameless. After all, what the f??k was he doing while Rome burned? Oh no, I remember. Commuting from Jersey every day........ on a Falcon 9000 perhaps???

Whatever happens, I cannot see MT being the size it is now in six months. You need to consolidate, and that unfortunately will maybe mean pain for some recent joiners...... I hope I am wrong though.

27th Oct 2002, 17:16
Right, time to be politically incorrect!!!!!!

Yes it is always hard when anyone loses their job, and no-one would wish that on anyone (least of all me as I work for MYT), however I'm sick to death of hearing about check in folks, cabin crew, cleaners, agents, bla bla bla et al. that may lose jobs.

Yes, yes , yes it IS sad but not the end of the world for you guys, ie lets pluck a salary figure out of the air say £20,000 pa as an average for non flight deck or management. You can earn the same temping and doining a bar job in the short term to pay the mortgage etc.

Now imagine if you earned between £50k and £80k pa, you aint gonna pay your mortgage, you aint gonna pay off those debts (most of which stem from the £50,000 it cost you to get your licence), your gonna have to give that car back to the finance company.....etc

The point is you wont lose your house, your 2 year old daughter will still have a pressie at xmas, and your pregnant wife won't have to go out to work just yet.... I wish I could say the same for me!!!!!

And whilst I'm sticking my head above the parapit, I can't help but feel an air of smugness comming from certain quarters (tailscrape et al)... Just remember one thing MYT subs out over 30% of its flying over the summer to the likes of BMI, MON and yes on occasions AMM, so before (some of) you get too excited at the possible deimse of a (still) brilliant company, just pause to think how it may affect you, remember 550 pilots will be ahead of you in the dole queue especially if you've got F'all experience (tailscrape)!!!!!!!!

BTW Kinsman, I'm with you all the way, but how do you manage to stay soooo cool with so many tossy comments flying around???

Cheers folks, and good luck to ALL of us at MYT

27th Oct 2002, 17:44

You are So wide of the mark.

My job seems secure, so I do not need to worry about not having as much experience as you OBVIOUSLY have. I was in the right place at the right time.

I am not smug about My Travel's difficulties. I am a realist, whereas you appear to be a dreamer.

Take your head out of the sand, accept that others can have opinions, and get real.

You are in a middle band operator who MAY be in difficulty. Do not take your frustration out on others because your pay masters have got it so wrong.

Smugness and expressing an opinion are not the same thing. However, I do appreciate your concern about me in the dole queue. But, I hope not to be going there, so it may be a touch irrelevant.

You appear to talk like you are not a pilot though. Yet you are here talking to us all, and worrying like we all do, irrespective of wages earned. You may lose your job you seem to imply. Who are you???

I've got it by jove. You must be David Crossland or perhaps Mr Jardine!!!! Mind you, if you are, you may well deserve to go.

27th Oct 2002, 17:51
Ok I now have an identity crisis on top of everything else! I have been accused of being arrogant, cool and advised to chill out all in one day! Oh and I forgot I have been accused of being insensitive to the feelings of the none pilots on a pilots forum.

I give up!

Tailscrap I am sure you are right, the mail story is just a rehash, and a poor one, of the same old story! You are not a Sunday Mail reporter are you?

27th Oct 2002, 18:03

Even I would not write such trash! ( I would forget about that story if I were you ) .

You know I save my best works for on here!:D

Have a good week.

Amazon man
27th Oct 2002, 21:09
As somebody who lost their job in the last big collapse of an airline/tour operator, Air Europe/Intasun I truly hope this doesn't happen to MyTravel, it was a miserable time and the collapse of a very good airline with some of the nicest people i've met in aviation. The very best of luck to all employees of MyTravel

500+ pilots out of work will not be good news for anyone, is there any possibility that more aircraft and crews can be folded into MyTravel Lite?

Having said that serious questions need to be asked of Mr Crossland and co especially the abilities of one director, and having made such a big mess of things why is he allowed to walk off with a £1million+. These massive unearned rewards have got to stop, it seems this behaviour has become a blight on British businesses a few senior people with their heads in the feeding trough whilst the people earning their salaries through hard work and dedication are left to pick up the scraps.

On the few occasions I have taxied past Northern Exec I have always thought that the Global challenger seemed a bit over the top for somebody commuting from Jersey, as soon as the private jets start to get bigger somebody needs to start asking more detailed questions of the person buying them.

28th Oct 2002, 07:47
The city is a very strange and inconsistent! Only a few weeks ago it was telling us(MYT) that we should concentrate on our core operations (selling package holidays) and not get into the low cost airline world. Now they are telling everyone the package holiday is dead and travel companies need to change to meet the challenge. My Travel Lite, despite the name, has got off to a great start and may be the saviour of the airline.

I agree the travel industry does need to change and sadly the airline industry will continue to see conditions and stability eroded. The really disappointing point is that MYT has made huge efforts to meet the new challenges and once again led the way. How sad to see our board let us down so badly!

Whatever the outcome with My Travel, this whole industry seems set for a massive shake up over the next few years. Time to do that plumbing course and move to the south of France I think!

28th Oct 2002, 10:38
Tailscrape Quote:

<<"My job seems secure, so I do not need to worry about not having as much experience as you OBVIOUSLY have. I was in the right place at the right time. ">>

I suggest you look up the meaning of 'Smug'

As for me not being Flight Deck.......T0$$er

I rest my case

28th Oct 2002, 13:47
Stop squabbling folks...our jobs may/may not be doomed, but there will be others around to deal with the heavy volumes of pax who still wish to travel...just may take a little time. The break-up of a company does not automatically mean a net loss of jobs..could even provide a few new ones. And MYLite are certainly off to a cracking start!

28th Oct 2002, 16:42

Your initial ramblings were hard to make out. You seem to think that you have a divine right to work, yet your colleagues may not.

Your attitude is selfish and quite frankly odious in the extreme.

You cannot see beyond the end of your nose, and have got no idea.

Why don't you look up the meaning of the phrase "sticking your head in the sand".........

Now if you can't handle opinion, why don't you go elsewhere?

29th Oct 2002, 07:36
So Tobias Wilcox what are you doing here at 0200 in the morning, reading Leonardo De Vinci?

Could it be ....

No, no, I'm sure you must really have better things to do like get your beauty sleep, not like us ugly married old fuggers!


Advice from an old fugger

Never make fun of ugly old fuggers, one day you will be married to one!

Also never walk the earth looking skyward under Sea Gulls or pigeons!

You get a stiff neck looking up all the time! Though it is good excercise for double chins!:p

Safety Guy
29th Oct 2002, 14:28
Kinsman, keep in mind that there are a large number of PPRuNe'rs on the other side of the pond. It was only 2100 hrs here on the east coast.


29th Oct 2002, 14:34
The sad message was posted in UK!

29th Oct 2002, 16:06
Sorry to change the subject a bit, but I have seen that the name of MT chief exec Peter Mchugh has been mentioned. Does anyone know if he would be the chief exec of other companies under its name?, ie Panorama and Manos. If not, do you know where I would be able to find out their names?

Many thanks in advance.

29th Oct 2002, 17:23

No offence but that is a strange question why do you want to know?

Sounds like the kind of question a reporter might ask.

Safety Guy - just having a little fun with Tobias Wilcox! Nice to have a little light relief every now and then!

29th Oct 2002, 17:33
No, not a reporter, I am in the midst of a formal complaint about my Holiday with Manos this past summer. Having lots of problems with customer services etc, was thinking about going to the top!!!!!!!

I am just waiting for someone to tell me I should not of booked with MT.

29th Oct 2002, 18:18
I have been reading this topic the last couple of days. Firstly I must say, from personal experience, that MYT is one of the best (charter) airlines I have flown with (Air 2000 a close second), and I really do not want them to go down the ****
That said, I read the new paper the other day with an article about MYT and I ripped it up with disgust, I can't believe people buy the c**p. It will be a sad day if MYT go down the drain. It will almost be like losing BCAL :(
I don't think it will though. MYT have the quality of service, and the prices to suit. I am confident that MYT will pull through.
'A Casual Passenger'

30th Oct 2002, 07:53
murray, i like myt as well. but the troubles are real ( http://snipurl.com/myt_concerns -- ananova story).

30th Oct 2002, 10:25
Lost luggage, I'm afraid I could not dissagree with you more.
In my experience with Airtours/MyTravel all the crews, Flight Deck, Cabin crews, reps in resorts and check in / ticketing have all been very professional and very helpful.

I hope all goes well for them and they pull through this mess.
Nobody needs a P45 right now, thats for sure.

763 jock
30th Oct 2002, 10:36
Lost luggage. Why don't you take your spiteful [email protected] somewhere else. MYT is not perfect, but try thinking for one minute about the 27000 employees, along with thousands of others that work for the support companies. Let's name a few. Servisair, Gate Gourmet, Alpha, Shell, BP, InEuropa, Hallmark Cars, NATS, Airline Services, Selwyns, FLS, British Airways. The list is endless. You may well have a problem with MYT, but they have many satisfied customers that book year after year. In the unlikely event it folds, our families are all affected. :mad:

30th Oct 2002, 11:05

Just ocassionaly someone comes along into a thread like this who hasn't got the first idea of what they are talking about. You are it. Congratulations!

There wasn't and isn't anything wrong with Airtours/MYT - that isn't also wrong with other operators. Indeed, they are among the best. All the faults you describe can be ascribed to many airlines. Why are you picking on Airtours? What is YOUR problem? Who smacked your hand?

Get off your high horse and take a moment to reflect the bitterness in your post. It is not needed and is upsetting to good honest people.

I would suggest that you delete it. I suspect that if you don't one of the mods will. It is tasteless and uneccessary at such a stressful time for the good people of MYT.

30th Oct 2002, 13:13
Sorry, but it's not just the luggage you've lost. There's no credibility to your post.

MYT staff do NOT deserve to lose their jobs - and that's not just from the humanitarian point of view.

I cannot stand by and let someone make these types of comments when I have direct experience of the professionalism of the flight and cabin crew, as well as the support teams at Parkway MAN.

You're entitled to your view, but I suggest you do not malign hardworking professionals that dedicate their effort to the well-being of their customers.

I earnestly hope that you now reconsider how you expressed your point of view and agree with me that an apology is warranted in this case.

30th Oct 2002, 15:24

My posts are often criticised, sometimes justifiably.

Yours however is outrageous. You should withdraw it now.

I hope no-one can name you.......

30th Oct 2002, 15:59
I have been in the aviation industry for the past 27 years and have never wished for an airline to go bust (or any other industry for that matter. I am an engineer that works for another charter airline in direct competition with My Travel. ‘Airtours’ have a very professional and dedicated workforce just like our airline and I simply want to wish all staff within the My Travel organisation the very best of luck – You All Deserve It.

I found the comments of Lost_luggage34 insulting and pathetically sick. I for one wish you ‘Flights From Hell’ for the rest of your sad little miserable existence.


30th Oct 2002, 16:45
Before you start spouting off so maliciously I suggest you learn to spell!

30th Oct 2002, 16:47
Don't let him wind you up!!

Its quite obvious that he is a sad lonely individual with a very small manhood and an incredibly boring, dull job (network consultant, booooooooooooooring!!!).

He must have aspirations to be Flight Deck, but probably can't cut the mustard, what does the '34' stand for? Your IQ I'll bet!!

Ahhhhh, that feels better!

30th Oct 2002, 17:59

What can I say that has not already been said! If I were you I would slink off to a quiet corner and consider your words. If you have a shred of decency you will retract your comments and apologise to all on this forum.

I have never seen such a post on this forum and hope I never see another.


30th Oct 2002, 18:02
Indeed very thoughtless and tasteless and not needed for those who work at MYT! I feel the services offered by MYT are excellent and facilities at some airports which enable early check-in (e.g Glasgow EGPF) are quite excellent and not offered by any other charter airline to my knowledge. The flightcrew are very nice, everyone at MYT is professional, and to be quite honest extremely hard-working as at other airlines...
I am aware it's a very serious situation which is why I won't comment further because I will be the first one to admit I am not 110% in the know, and giving a comment based up fragmented information isn't right. So all the best to MYT again, hopefully I will be flying with you next year.......:)

foggy duck
30th Oct 2002, 20:02
For **** sake wake up people !!!

There's more chance of My Travel going bust than you (yes you) winning the lottery !!

Worst case scenario would be a hostile.

p.s. remember 9/11 aftermath ? That was REAL and it can't ever get any worse than that ! This is nothing more than accountants covering their six o'clock.

30th Oct 2002, 22:27
Foggy Duck

Nice name by the way! Sorry to be a bit slow but I am not sure from your last if you rekon MYT is going bust or not?

It can get much worse than post 9/11 and did only ten or so years ago. However; if I were a betting man I would have to say MYT will still be around this time next year, smaller and perhaps under new ownership but still here.


31st Oct 2002, 10:09
I have already apologised to one poster on this thread via PM.

I apologise to the rest of you. In retrospect my comments and posting were very mis-judged. Out of decency I have removed the post. I do feel however, that some of the comments made have been overley harsh and too personal. I don't think there is a need for that.

I was simply expressing an opinion - one from personal experience with Airtours over many years. Is that not what this forum is for ?

Can we now move on ?

31st Oct 2002, 11:43
I think that would be agreeable. Apologies were needed, and now they have been made there is no more justification to chatise you.

Well done.

Back to the topic then. The seemingly most vociferous of the daily's - The Mail - has nothing to say on the subject of MYT today. No news is good news. But hope there is good news to come. :)

31st Oct 2002, 12:17
It does - at least in the North West edition.

" The Financial Reporting Council launched a review of holiday
group My Travel ( 17.25p, up 1.25p ), which is facing accounting
black holes "

At least the column inches regarding MYT are reducing.

31st Oct 2002, 20:11
I think everyone is losing interest in the story at the moment!

Out of interest Thomas Cook and the others, who stopped selling our holidays are having a change of heart it appears. They at no time took all our brands off the shelf anyway, just the MYT and Airtours holidays. As I said before, cynical but to be expected, I have no doubt we would have done the same.

I also hope for better news soon!

Lost-luggage34 thanks for the apology.

1st Nov 2002, 07:21
I too would like to thank you for your apology.

All the very best to all at MYT - you'll pull through.


foggy duck
1st Nov 2002, 07:47

I'm with you in spirit (and cash !)

1st Nov 2002, 08:34
Lost luggage
I don't think anyone would have minded you pointing out that Myt/Airtours had given you poor sevice, it was your wishing them to fail that was in VERY poor taste. Apology noted!
n.b. I thought for a momment I had worked out who you were -
"You are the weakest link, goodby":p

9th Nov 2002, 14:56
In today's Daily Telegraph
"MyTravel suffers insurance blow"
Euler who insures Thomas Cook withdrew insurance cover for payments owed by MyTravel

10th Nov 2002, 16:52

That was in The Sunday Telegraph too.

Not good news. How much could it cost Thomas Cook as well if MT went under?

Apparently MT are having to pay TC "tens of thousands a day" in the report.....

10th Nov 2002, 18:50
I heard that TC sales only account for about 3% of GP/MYT sales. As reported in the TTG, TC did not in fact de-rack MYT as a company policy, but left it up to individual agent managers to make the decision, after the advertising campaign by MYT. After the recent profit warnings and such about MYT, TC have continued selling MYT as a matter of course.

According to the latest TTG, MYT sales seem to be unaffected so far with advance bookings up on last year of approx 19,300.

Fingers crossed ;)

El Grifo
10th Nov 2002, 20:35
I mentioned much earlier on the thread, that I had been asked to do a three week photo- shoot in Thailand for MYT, as part of an expansion into that area for 2004.

I admit to being a little cautious in the earlier days, about booking flights and stuff and gave them every opportunuty to postpone or cancel during the dark days that followed all the press muck-raking etc.

True to form, MYT firmed up the booking and I am off on Nov 30th.
Clearly they have no illusions about their ability to survive and are expanding their markets rather than shrinking.

A little bit of positive news for all of us I would say!!!

:) :) :)

11th Nov 2002, 09:27
El Grifo Whilst I am sure MYT will survive I should not think that just because they took your booking all is well.It does not mean a thing. All Airlines in UK that have failed over the years take bookings and offer Pilots jobs to the bitter end. The last people in the know are those at the front line. Have a good holiday.

11th Nov 2002, 11:35

I would love to tell you that you are talking tosh, but sadly I remember ILG! However, I do feel MYT will be around for some time yet.

11th Nov 2002, 12:03

I think you may have misinterpretted El Grifos post. As I understand it he has not booked a holiday WITH MyTravel, he is going there ON BEHALF of MyTravel to shoot photo's for next years holiday brochures. When he mentioned about confirming the booking I think he was referring to the job he is due to carry out.

I'm sure he will clarify. Of course I could be completely wrong (it has been known before ;) ).

I sincerely hope that MYT will survive. The "front line" staff are amoungst the most dedicated and professional around and are quite traumatised at the events swirling around the Company at present.

A4 :)

El Grifo
11th Nov 2002, 18:05
A4, that is exactly what I meant.

Whilst I realise it is not exactly a cast iron indication of the MYT's ability to survive intact. It shows a willingness to carry on regardless, throughout what must be a very difficult time.

November 15th is slated as a crunch day I am told.

11th Nov 2002, 20:10
The financial year end is 26th Nov. and they have to get things straight by then.

Whatever happens with MYT there will still be people going on holiday next year and there will be a requirement for people to fly them.

Creative accounting by MYT just might have reduced the profitability and job security of others in the business, so it isn't just the employees of MYT whose long term security has been put at risk.

12th Nov 2002, 08:34
Sky9 you are correct so let us all hope MYT keeps going.

Just a thought but if MYT are paying tens of thousands of pounds to TC every day, that must mean TC are selling a lot of MYT products! Is that not good news?

As I said, Just a thought.;)

12th Nov 2002, 22:59

As I understand it, MYT are paying TC money because TC's insurers will not cover the possibility of TC not receiving the cash that joe public has paid to MYT on their behalf, should the worst happen.

So, if JP goes into MYT and books a TC holiday, TC are asking for that deposit or full payment to be paid to TC straight away rather than wait as is normal practice.

However, as I stated earlier in the thread TC bookings account for very little in the grand scheme of things with MYT, TC are merely covering there own backs as the insurance companies are unwilling to do so.

The money from the bookings made that goes direct to MYT is minimal, but I reiterate, according to the latest TTG MYT bookings for own products are up on last year, approx 19,300.

MYT are also in line to post a profit, albeit not as big as they originally thought, but a profit nonetheless. The biggest hurdle for them in the near future is the deadline for depsits from punters due on the 15th November (although they have extended it until mid December). This will give further insight to the guaranteed bookings made with MYT and will either enhance and strengthen or very quickly debilitate the company. (IMHO)

As always, fingers crossed for the best outcome for MYT. :p :p

Localiser Green
14th Nov 2002, 15:21
After a few weeks hovering at a very low 15p, MT shares have soared today to 20.75p (at 15:00). Still pretty low, but that's a 40.7% rise. :eek:

I'm no stockbroker analyst, but such activity in a single day surely means the worst may well be over? Do they all know something we don't?

Give a dog a beach
14th Nov 2002, 15:54
Psr 777

You are indeed correct, MYT bookings are up on last year which in its self is good news ....

But they are selling most holidays at £100 cheaper than everyone else and at less than they sold at last year !!

Anyone can sell £1 coins for 50p.......:confused:

Ice Man
14th Nov 2002, 16:24
Localiser Green,

The reason for the jump in MYT share price is that the investment group 3i are rumoured to be about to make a bid!.

14th Nov 2002, 19:35
A 40% rise sounds good news, but simply returns the price to round about where it was some weeks ago after the profit warning. This is not so much the light at the end of the tunnel as an illuminated sign pointing to the way out.

Ax far as I can see from reading various financial message boards - Nobody knows for certain what will happen and where this one is going: The Banks are in the driving seat, and will decide around the 26th.

As cabin crew with MYT competition, my sympathy goes out to all the crew, who must be feeling bruised by all of this - I pray nightly that our directors never cock up on this epic scale! Good Luck.

15th Nov 2002, 16:45
Wait and see on the 26th, my feeling is MYT will have a surprise or two up it's sleeve.

I hope the surprise is not 3i's though!


The ox is slow but the earth is patient!

15th Nov 2002, 17:43
Can anyone explain to me how a company can be valued at less than the cost of one airplane????

The fall values the firm at just £91 million, a far cry from the value at its peak this year of £1.4 billion.


15th Nov 2002, 17:52
There's some nice photo's on



Depressed?,NO just give a me LARGE Bacardi and Coke.
:D :D

15th Nov 2002, 18:14
I'm afraid the city posts a nett assety value of 18p...
We are back at 15p now and I fear that will be the new ground.
It's going to be Ok for employees - but grim for shareholders.

foggy duck
15th Nov 2002, 19:39

Where did you get the NAV figure from ?

Good luck with your short....you will need it !

18th Nov 2002, 10:11

The "value" in this sense is the value of all the shares = total number of shares times current share value.

The "actual" value of the company is derived from the balance sheet, in its simplest form, total assets less total liabilities. This gives a "net asset" figure. Some reports will give a value for "net assets per share", where the net asset value is divided by the number of shares. Where the result is less than the current share price, then the share price is said to be at a "premium". Conversely, where the result is greater than the current share price, the share price is said to be at a "discount".

For MyTravel, at the time of their 2001 report, the net assets figure was £522m, and the net assets per share figure 106p. I guess this makes a considerable discount in terms of their current share price!! What is a little worrying, is that their "goodwill" figure at that time was £540m!

Much of the "real value" of the company, as in the case of Airtours, is based on the premise that, if the company is profitable, then the return to shareholders, the dividend, will be high. Thus the demand for shares pushes the share price up. Shareholding is a "risky" investment since, if a company does go "belly up", the shareholders are at the bottom of a long list of creditors, even below employees, but only just!

With some companies involved in aviation, the aircraft are all leased, thus no "book value" is carried by the company. If they go bust, the aircraft returns to the lease-holder.

Sometimes, where the net asset value of a company is greater than the share value, then "asset strippers" may buy the company, sell the assets for a profit, and then close down the company.

18th Nov 2002, 11:24
From yesterday's Sunday Times:

MyTravel calls on its third accountant
Dominic O’Connell and Lucinda Kemeny

THE board of MyTravel, the beleaguered holiday group, has appointed Ernst & Young, the accountant, to advise on the review of the firm’s accounts.
The appointment underlines the deep soul-searching at the top of MyTravel, which has been rocked by three profit warnings in five months and the disclosure of a black hole in its accounts.

Three sets of accountants — Deloitte & Touche, MyTravel’s auditor; Price Waterhouse Coopers, retained at the insistence of the company’s banks; and E&Y — are now poring over the figures in the run-up to November 26, the expected date for full-year results.

MyTravel, which is chaired by David Crossland, declined to comment.

The company appears to have averted the immediate threat of a collapse in consumer confidence. Industry sources say the company has collected nearly all of the 400,000 deposits for next summer’s holidays that were due to be paid last week. MyTravel this year offered “deferred” deposits of £55 and £110 to holidaymakers.

The ploy drew in extra business, but increased the risk of customers switching to other companies when the group’s accounting problems became public.

The day before its results are revealed, MyTravel executives will meet the Civil Aviation Authority, which has powers to call in MyTravel’s £400m consumer-protection bond.

Company sources insist no further problems have been uncovered so far in the accounting review. Pre-tax profits of £30m-£40m for the full year are now expected by analysts.

A “back-to-basics” review has been instituted by Peter McHugh, the new chief executive, who replaced Tim Byrne in the wake of last month’s profit warning and disclosure of accounting worries. But the company is still saddled with a mountain of debt, and McHugh may make several disposals.

The company is in advanced talks to sell Leger Holidays, its coach holiday operation, to a management buyout backed by 3i, the private-equity group.

Other venture capitalists, including Barclays Private Equity and Hg Capital, are circling MyTravel divisions.

Cresta Holidays, a European short-breaks brand, is thought to be up for sale, along with Panorama and Manos.

MyTravel has resumed talks with its lead banks — Bank of America, Deutsche Bank, Citigroup and Nordea — on a new £250m credit facility.

Meanwhile, 3i has appointed Deloitte & Touche’s corporate-finance arm to explore strategic options for Wallace Arnold, the coach tour company it owns.


The Market cap of MYT at opening today was £89.6m. If, as suggested by the article, the company reports profits of £30-40m this week, I think the share price is way too low. The price has already risen by 23% this morning to 22.5p

Viscount Sussex
18th Nov 2002, 17:25
Shares up almost 22% and rising!!
Not bad.
;) :) :p :D

El Grifo
18th Nov 2002, 17:35
State of play at 5.45 pm, courtesy of Reuters.

LONDON, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Ebookers Plc (EBR), Europe's biggest online travel group, said on Monday it was interested in buying "one or two" of the brands operated by struggling British holiday company MyTravel Group (MT.).

Dinesh Dhamija, chief executive of ebookers, told Reuters he had approached MyTravel about two weeks ago and was still awaiting a response. But he said the slow response had left him "not confident" of sealing a deal.

"We made an approach and they replied that if they wanted to sell they'd get back to us," Dhamija said. He said no timeframe had been indicated for a reply.

Shares in MyTravel -- formerly called Airtours -- leapt 22 percent to 22-1/4 pence on Monday, on expectations the company will sell non-core assets to generate cash and that holidaymakers have continued to pay their holiday deposits.

The shares in MyTravel, which now has a market capitalisation of about 110 million pounds ($174 million), have lost 70 percent in the past month.

The shares have been hit by three profit warnings in five months and accounting issues likely to cut annual profits in half, and making the company a takeover target for a brave predator. Ebookers shares were up 4.3 percent at 362-1/2p, valuing the company at about 350 million pounds.

MyTravel was not immediately available to comment on the ebookers approach. Earlier on Monday a spokeswoman declined to comment on speculation about the company's strategy.

24th Nov 2002, 15:48
Says in the Sunday Times (Business Section) today that they might ditch the 'MyTravel' brand and revert to 'Airtours'. Hmmm.....

24th Nov 2002, 22:06
Three little words:- Buy, Buy, Buy.


Localiser Green
25th Nov 2002, 10:16
Shares are sitting at 31p (11:00)... gosh I'm glad I bought a bunch at 15p now.

Hoping to sell them all in a couple of weeks and pay for an MCC!

El Grifo
25th Nov 2002, 15:23
Excellent News.

Better than Bye, Bye, Bye.

:) :cool: :)

26th Nov 2002, 06:07
Just anounced on CNBC (Hong Kong) that MYT is delaying the anouncement of it's FY results. Didn't say for how long or why.

26th Nov 2002, 07:10
As a result of the announcement, dealing in My Travel shares has been suspended on the London Stock Exchange . Here is the full text of the BBC report:

Struggling tour firm My Travel has postponed the publication of its full year financial results.

The group, which has issued three profits warnings in seven months, said it expects to sign agreements with the banks soon and would issue its results at that time.

The firm's last profits warning in October was followed by the departure of chief executive Tim Byrne.

Analysts were expecting the firm to announce that profits fell by 76% compared with the year before to £30m.

The firm warned on 17 October that it has uncovered accounting problems which might cut its earnings by tens of millions of pounds.

However, MyTravel's shares rose strongly on the day before the results were due after The Times newspaper reported that MyTravel was hopeful of renewing a vital £250m credit facility with its lending banks.

The newspaper also reported that the firm has collected about £25m ($37.5m) in down-payments on holidays, in a sign that customers have stuck by the firm despite its well-publicised financial difficulties.

City investors welcomed the news, sending MyTravel shares up by more than a quarter to 33p in late afternoon trade on Monday.

Monday's share price recovery reflected rising hopes that the company may be poised to emerge from period of financial turmoil that wiped out nearly two thirds of its market value in a single day last month.

Up and down Since 17 October, MyTravel is thought to have been approached by rival tour operators - including online travel agents Lastminute.com and Ebookers - seeking to buy parts of its business.

The company was also expected to announce the results of a financial review by its new auditor Deloitte & Touche.

There has been speculation that this might recommend the sale of some of MyTravel's assets to raise cash.

26th Nov 2002, 08:18
Well at 09:10 my stockbroker still had them trading. Don't know where your info came from but it doesn't help. You're not an accountant are you? :mad:

Well at 90:10 my stockbroker still had them trading. Don't know where your info came from but it doesn't help. You're not an accountant are you?:mad:

Roger Dee
26th Nov 2002, 08:48
My brokers still trading them;)

26th Nov 2002, 08:54
Trading at 28.5 at 0946UTC

26th Nov 2002, 09:06
The BBC Breakfast business reporter announced shares had been suspended around 8 am this morning. The reason I sat up and took notice was because I was going to buy MYT shares today.

26th Nov 2002, 09:16
What the BBC reporter actually said was that there was a delay to publishing figures as MT where still in talks with their bank(s) and as a reuslt he expected share dealing to be halted at some point later today.

26th Nov 2002, 09:31
Dont panic girls the talkings not over yet:rolleyes:

26th Nov 2002, 09:58
I'm sure things will turn out OK and the shares will be a good investment

El Grifo
26th Nov 2002, 15:35
Jeeeeezuss, Talk about a Roller Coaster Ride.

This Beats Universal Studios any day!

:confused: :eek: :confused:

26th Nov 2002, 16:21
Any news on how things faired out today?

It's certainly heart stopping. Crossing fingers and toes for them all


26th Nov 2002, 17:00
Try this link to the FT online pages.


And for the latest price, try here.


Good luck to all staff and crews at MyT from us all in Air 2000.

27th Nov 2002, 03:51
Surely no one wants MYT to go bust but whether thay are an excellent airline and employ marvellous people does not come into the equation.
Bad management has caused the problem and whether it survives will depend on the attitude of the Bankers and whether they approve of the business plan looking forward.
I wonder whether perhaps with the Lo Cost Airlines there is just too much capacity in the IT business as I saw on CNBC that the package tour is in decline and maybe there are just too players in the field?? If this is the case then maybe an Airline will need to fall in the same way as there are too many Airlines in Europe,being subsidised by their respective taxpayers despite EU rules which are blatant ly ignored by the French in particular.

28th Nov 2002, 07:34
BBC 0800 news reported that MYT have just announced a £72 million loss with an overstatement of £20 million last year.

The company claim last year to be it's worst ever.

The FT online hotline (tickertape) news say's that David Jardine is to go with immediate effect.

Can't find any other online news yet.

Localiser Green
28th Nov 2002, 07:51
Shares up 12.5% by 08:30 this morning. :D

28th Nov 2002, 08:02

Matt Braddock
28th Nov 2002, 09:07
Shares now slipping back to 32.5p after an initial surge to 36p. I don't think investors are convinced. They might, however, be waiting for the outcome of an analysts meeting which started at 0830.

28th Nov 2002, 09:16
The good news for those of you connected with the company is that the Banks have committed their support until end-2003. They will not be doing it for free though, which might impact jobs.

Desk Driver
28th Nov 2002, 12:16
MY Travel will have to pay £12 million for this credit line.
The banks are still a bit shaky and so to reduce their risk they are spreading the loan around amongst other banks and of course everyone wants their bit of the pie.

The banks have said that MYT must turn around the group within 12 months so they're not out of the woods yet. Therefore expect a major restructure with an awful lot of the smaller business's sold off.

As always a lot of hardworking proffesional people have been let down by money grabbing greedy executives who can wreck livelyhoods and the get a golden parachute for doing so.
Good luck to all

U/S President
28th Nov 2002, 21:41
Just saw the report on MYT by Jeff Randall on tonight’s BBC News at Ten and was not impressed. :mad:

Amongst others things, Mr Randall spoke of “the rescue package from the banks.” Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the case that the banks have merely agreed to continue MYT’s revolving overdraft for another year. Hasn’t MYT always had this facility – and doesn’t virtually every charter outfit have one (they make money in the summer and lose it in the winter, so always have need of this credit facility). I believe that the facility had to be re-agreed each year and that this year was nothing new (except that MYT brought the negotiations forwards themselves to get the facility sorted in time for the accounts). If this is the case, I really don’t see that “rescue package” is anything but a unnecessarily inaccurate way to describe the banking agreement – a further attempt by the media to undermine customer confidence in MYT. :(

Mr Randall went on to add insult to injury by saying that MYT had been “given one last chance.” I don’t even know where to start with the lack of integrity in that claim. :mad:

Ah well, despite the Beeb’s best efforts, the bookings are still going well and will hopefully only get better now last year’s results are finally done and dusted. :cool:

LGW Vulture
29th Nov 2002, 07:17
Indeed U/S your outburst is warranted. If you think Randall is a little over - reactionary on camera, you need to see what crap he writes.

Objective - no, totally over- reactive and headline seeking - yes!

Another thumbs down for the BBC..........We need a TV revolution, Immediately!

p.s. I fear My Travel will have difficulty selling that 900B for US$22.75 M


....................Glad Life's only Bizjets...............................

Desk Driver
29th Nov 2002, 08:21
As I understand it the banks have given My Travel a year to turn things around or no more credit.

When you drop from £62m profit to £70+m loss finding credit becomes a hell of a lot harder.

29th Nov 2002, 13:40
I think that Randall was correct, it was a rescue package. MyTravel are going into the winter without any money and needed credit. No company is entitled to credit from a bank and has to justify it. The banks took a view that the risk was worth the return (no doubt the cost reflected the risk) as by February the company will be relying on its overdraft to keep it afloat.

At least the rest of the industry won't be faced with another bout of selling below cost by MYT.

His comment was accurate.

U/S President
29th Nov 2002, 16:56
So sky9 :mad:, do you think that MYT’s revolving overdraft has always constituted a “rescue” package. Has MYT been “rescued” every winter for the last 11 years? Like I said, nearly every tour operator/charter company uses an overdraft facility during the winter: do you think it’s fair to say that most tour operator/charter companies are constantly being “rescued” :rolleyes:.

To a normal person, the term “rescue” conjures up the inaccurate image of MYT unforeseeably running out of cash and needing to secure some sort of extra loan from the banks. This is far from the true scenario of MYT simply renewing the revolving overdraft it’s always had :).

The media might not report outright lies but their speciality is distorting truths to have the same effect as lies :(.

29th Nov 2002, 17:58
sky9 it is a pity that you seem to know little of how business and more importantly the airline business works.

U/S P has got it about right. It certainly isn't a rescue package. It is a continuation of the existing credit facility (an overdraft if you like) that ALL business and the airlines need. Such a facility is necessary while they wait for funds commited to them to arrive in their bank. That can take many weeks.

In the meantime, the fuel companies, ground handlers, EU, hotels, airports and any number of other creditors want their cash without waiting more than 28 days - or by negotiation - but given that MYT has a fair size chunk of working cash and a good future, I would say they are about re-establish. And, of course, the banks want to see that all is well one year from now. Very fair I would say.

So, this is where DC gets his feet back under the table and assists the people who are going to take MYT forward. Certain elements may get sold but NOT the airline. That is the core business.

29th Nov 2002, 18:22

I think you are getting out of your depth here a bit. Nowadays, all credit facilities are for a fixed duration and have to be renewed. No bank will give an open-ended credit facility to a company. Why not? The answer is very simple really; it’s an easy way for the bank to extort their ‘arrangement fees’ out of their customers at regular intervals, even if the renewal of facilities is just a paper exercise. ‘Extort’ here, is the right word, but that is an entirely different subject for debate!

You are quite correct when you say that no company is entitled to credit, they have to justify it. You show me any bank that will lend to any company in the world because they are ‘entitled to it’. No such company exists.

Apart from a few notable exceptions, there are virtually no companies in the world that do not rely on some form of credit facility; whether it be an aircraft lease, a bank overdraft, line of credit, factoring agreement (to protect against debtors not paying their bills on time). Withdrawal of those facilities would probably bring most of those companies down instantly. Likewise, if those credit arrangements were not renewed, most companies would go belly-up. The fact is that they generally are, (if justified to the credit institution) and life goes on as normal. Notable exceptions are GEC in the past that were in the fortunate position of sitting on ‘a cash mountain’ waiting for a predatory strike. I’ll lay an even dollar bet that companies like Boeing have big problems in cash-flow and therefore require significant credit. They have to buy components and build aircraft that they cannot sell until complete. My father was boss of a big building company; they had a credit line of £4million and that was 40 years ago. That enabled them to buy sizeable blocks of land for future development. They could afford to sit on that land, awaiting planning permission and development. They got no return until they built a house or whatever and sold it to the end purchaser, but that was the nature of their business. I’m getting to my point, don’t worry.

So, let’s examine your statement that the renewal of credit facilities is a ‘rescue package’. If it is a renewal of existing credit facilities, then it clearly cannot be considered a ‘rescue package’. By definition, a ‘rescue package’ would involve an agreement for ‘additional and extraordinary financial assistance’ over and beyond the normal credit line, with the express purpose of saving a company that would otherwise go belly-up. So, with due respect, you should eat some humble pie here.

All airlines are very susceptible to ‘changing fortunes’, because they are very yield sensitive. Take one of the current stars in aviation, Ryanair, for example. They are currently making thumping big profits as are the other LCA’s. Take 20% of their load factor away from them and those thumping big profits would equal thumping big losses and no bank in the world would touch them!

Charter airlines are acutely more sensitive, because their business is very seasonal. Big profits summer, losses in winter. It’s the nature of the European ‘holiday concept’. That in itself is quite extraordinary. When it gets hot here we all go to hotter places and when it gets cold we all shelter in our little nests. The other way round would be more logical, but I guess they don’t serve fish and chips with mushy peas in Bali or gallons of Guinness.

As for commentators, journalists and presenters; they want to sell stories, that’s their job; no requirement for them to be intellectually or financially astute. Do you really believe that the primary requisite of a financial journalist depends on his financial acumen? If he doesn’t sell newspapers, he’s down the road! These guys want to be stars, but they cannot sing or dance. Why do you see Trevor Macdonald at all the celebrity bashes? Think on Sky9
:) :p ;)

29th Nov 2002, 18:28
Of course all charter airlines run at a loss during the winter however they are given those facilities because the banks consider them to be a good risk. They also normally go into the winter with the profits of the last summer behind them. The facts are that the 9 months revolving credit is costing MYTravel some £12.5m.
Comment in todays Daily Tel. suggests that an operating profit of £60m for 2003 will be reduced by £40m interest.
Good to see however that Byrne and Jardin are apparently negotiating payoff of £1.0m and £0.7m.

29th Nov 2002, 18:31
Sky9...in your own words, MYT must be a good risk too, because their facilities were renewed. Quit whilst you're loosing.

29th Nov 2002, 18:44

Please read before you credit me as being the reason for your answers. I didn't mention any of what you are saying.

However, you are correct about the interest. But then you pay interest on your borrowings don't you. No! Better in touch with MYT they might to know who your bank/credit card company/etc., etc., etc., - are!

As my friend Horatio says - quit while you are losing. Or....you will fall in the big hole you are digging.

Btw, I was always called Captain - when I was flying that is :D:p

just a minor typo ;)

30th Nov 2002, 10:03

Our dirty linen is now out in the open and the banks seem to think a healthy company still exists! The question that you should be asking is how many other UK companies have inflated their profits? I wonder how many other companies would fair if they were subject to the same level of examination and press coverage.

MYT have a steep hill to climb to get back their tarnished reputation but they still have a lot of valuable assets that are making money. Our problem has been a lack of effective financial control and poor leadership, not a poor performing collection of companies.

The banks are the best endorsement of the health of the underlying business, they would not be lending money to a company they thought would not survive. No company, no interest payments, loan does not get repaid.

This is the first loss MYT have made, they know how to make money, they just lost their way for a while and have been damaged by the actions of a discredited auditing firm. Take a look at Andersens other clients, they are all having big problems.

I doubt you have seen the end of cut price holidays! brace yourself for some very aggressive selling. This is going to be a very diffucult year for every UK operator and some may not survive the winter, it would appear that MYT will survive! If your going to have problems now is the time to do it. I imagine some of our competitors were really hoping MYT would fall to ensure their own survival.

I have already made comment on the standard of reporting. There are good journalists out there but there are a lot more who are only interested in selling papers to those without the wit to tell the difference between news and speculation.

In conclusion Sky9, you are correct in so far as MYT have a long year ahead of them to get their house in order. If the problems were product related I would agree, not much hope for the future. But nearly all their problems seem to relate to poor financial contol and accounting practice, that being the case they have a good chance of making a strong come back as those issues are now being addressed very publicly. The share holders meeting in March should be fun, I might even go this year.

30th Nov 2002, 12:59
I have worked for MyTravel for the past 6 years in a senior management role in the UK, and would like to mke the point that during all the "bad press" we have had since the last profit warning we were not allowed to comment or counter the stories, most of which were regurgitated dross because we were in a "close out" period at the end of the financial year leading up to the decalaration on the 28th November.

Further, the fundamental reasons why the loss was as it was were because an awaful ot of profit had to be "shifted" into this new financial year as a result of audit changes - the result of employing new audotors after dismissing "andersen".

This year will be an excellent year for my company, not least because of the above but also because we have a very competent and able senior team at the helm - I am proud to work for MyTravel and never had any doubt we would "win" this war and go on to be bigger no, BETTER at what we do - deliver quality products to the public, and a return to healthy profits for our shareholders!!!:) :)

30th Nov 2002, 20:04

From your position how did the huge amount of money spent rebranding a recognisable and established name like Airtours to MYT help with the profit & loss account? Having spent the previous couple of years building up a debt mountain buying anything that moved in the travel business and pouring money into a failed German operation.

Coupled with master Crosslands pafetic statment about the standing of Andersons at the AGM at a time when he must have known accounting practices were dubious along with his selection of crony Bryne as a successor how can you be full of so much brown nosing bull****.

I have every sympathy for all the staff at MYT and the long suffering shareholders you mention (in which I include myself) but if MYT do in the long run bite the bullet the people to blame are at the director level who showed there business decision making and practices dont live up to the size of there salaries.

Crossland being the main culprit filling a board room with cronys from Andersons and yes men.

MYT management may treat their staff and shareholders like a bucket of mushrooms but you can't expect them to pull it off with the media too!

1st Dec 2002, 05:42

I accept your status as a manager in view of your ability to forget recent events, not learn from experience and superimpose your own, more palatable version of the truth on that actually experienced by others.

However you gloss it, you just had a warning from the city - I'd suggest that you heed it. A little less talking up and a little more getting down to hard work and, who knows, coupled with a little humility perhaps - I hope for the sake of the staff who work for you that everything will be good for the future.

Desk Driver
2nd Dec 2002, 07:17
USP & Others.

Ok so this may not have been a rescueof MYT but will you accept that it was'nt you usually revolving credit agreement either.

Weeks of long negotiations late in to the night to get another years credit at a much increased rate must send you a signal.

(B)Don't bury your head in the sand????(/B) Your current or previous management have put the company at risk and drastic action needs to be taken to avoid further problems. Over the next 12 months you will see the whole group restructured and maybe even taken over.

Good luck to you all!

3rd Dec 2002, 07:09
Changing tack slightly...

We all knew that Sep 11 was going to have a HUGE impact and a certain amount of uncertainty within the airline industry. Passengers refused to fly, Airlines and Tour operators started laying off staff but the Airtours Powers That Be still decided that a major rebranding was necessary. It didn't work. We still have to read in the press "MyTravel - formerly Airtours". We still hear on the news "MyTravel, the company previously known as Airtours".

How much has all this actually cost the Company? Crossland says that this kind of year is totally unacceptable, for sure it is - looks like his bubble is finally about to burst. Such a great shame for someone who has dedicated his whole life to such a project.

If it ain't broke....don't fix it. :confused:

4th Dec 2002, 12:35
Fillosan,Horatio,U/S President:

I admire your closed eye, blind faith that you have in your management.

Your company WAS rescued by the banks. Had they not allowed you the revolving line of Credit (as Commerzbank nearly did not), you know as well as everyone else that MT may have failed.

So, don't smoke others for having an opinion just cos you don't like it.

I guess if things are so good in MT now, you won't be applying elsewhere? And of course the health of the company is reflected in it's "soaring" share price since the announcement. Down 8p, or about 30%.....including another penny today.

Dream on, but unfortunately MT are still in trouble and that is reflected in EVERYTHING going on around them. Lets' hope "dubya" can keep calm, because that will be the next major test for everyone. You lot included.

Good luck.

4th Dec 2002, 16:45

What the hell does it matter what you call it, the company is still here! Some seem to take great pleasure in the problems MYT are having. So some of us are looking on the bright side! humour us a little, It has been a bad few weeks!

I believe MYT will survive, I also believe that others will not be here at the end of the winter. MYT is still a strong company, it has had a bad year and it may well be forced to make some big changes. The changes may make us much stronger in the long run!

Of course all may still end in tears, do we really need to be reminded, NO! No one in MYT has much faith in any management, most of us have been around long enough to know better!

There have been some thoughtless postings on this forum over the last few weeks. None of us know what is round the corner, and anyone who thinks they do are deluding themselves. :cool:

5th Dec 2002, 17:07
The fact that general trading has been mostly been unaffected by the financial speculation, combined with the assesment of the lending banks accountants has no doubt played a significant part in giving MYT bankers confidence to renew it's credit facility.

There are no doubt many companies out there, in this industry and others, who would dearly love to be in the position of having all of the bad news out in the open. The new management team now have a very good position to go forward from, and have the opportunity to spring positive surprises in the future.

I just wonder how many more companies there are out there just hoping their true financial status does not come to light.

I would be surprised if MYT were the only ones with 'acccounting issues'; time will no doubt tell.

Who is going to be next to come out ?:confused:

Bucking Bronco
5th Dec 2002, 23:01
Which Airlines were audited by Arthur Anderson?


7th Dec 2002, 15:57
For those who want to know the facts.

Annual results are available on the MyTravel website mytravel.com click on "Mytravel Group PLC"

10th Dec 2002, 12:09
I see in the latest reshuffle MYT will be relegated out of the FTSE 250 and BA will be promoted back to the FTSE 100 by default.

10th Dec 2002, 15:37
I keep reading stories of First Choice being interested in all, or part of MyTravel.

Big Tudor
10th Dec 2002, 19:05
Sky 9

There are numerous stories about other companies being interested in parts of the MYT group, First Choice being one of them. Comments that areas of the group that don't form part of the 'core business' will be looked at, may imply that some areas will be up for sale. It's one way to improve the cash flow situation.

Whilst I don't always agree with kinsmans opinions, I'm with him/her on this. I now enjoy working for MYT A and believe that the company will emerge from the crisis all the better for it. Peoples opinions are listened to and not just dismissed out of hand. The books have been audited to death and, whilst there was accountancy discrepancies, there was no mention of fraud or deception as there was in other high profile cases.