Sari Club 2 (turning the other cheek)

[ferris]

Firstly can I say, I am grateful to have this outlet to express my feelings. I realise it is not, in the strictest sense, aviation, however it is the place I came to express my feelings about this issue. In that sense, many of us in the aviation community are spread far and wide, yet because of aviation, the world is smaller.
Maybe our children won't think it strange that some of our peers are faceless avatars on a computer screen. Brave new world.

I am at least heartened by some of the rational posts on this issue, yet shake my head at the less reasoned.

I tell people about the sport in Australia, where you attend a match mixed with the opposition supporters, and the picket fence around the ground is 4 foot high. They don't believe me. I just wish the world was like that.

[Bubbette]

According to this report, the other cheek *was* turned:

"The United States repeatedly warned the Indonesian government in the weeks before the bomb blast that killed more than 180 people in Bali that a group linked to Al Qaeda was planning attacks to kill Americans and other Westerners, Bush administration officials said today."



http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/16/international/asia/16INDO.html?pagewanted=all&position=top

[ferris]

Stop gloating, Bubbette, you pig. Australians are big enough to rise above your Zionist intentions and see this for what it is: A CRIMINAL act. Not a religious act, a CRIMINAL act.

You can spin it any way you like. Thinking people will not succumb to people like you wishing to spread religious hatred.

[Bubbette]

I'm a pig? You can't formulate a post without making personal attacks? Gloating? Zionist intentions? What did the Zionists have to do with this exactly? Uh I think this was an act of terrorism, based on militant Islam.

[ferris]

I think people re-reading your posts will work it out, Bubbette.

I will not be further drawn into this. Good luck trying to continue to link Islam with terrorism (I'm sure someone will keep pointing out the UN resolutions about Israeli terrorism to you).

[Guptar]

Lets get a few things straight.

Criminal activity is done for the purpose of gain, financial or otherwise. What possible gain is there by blowing up a nightclub. Religious fundamantalism is the key here, not criminal activity.

A few key points that we know so far(suspected).

Funds were supplied from a Saudi for the purchase of explosives.

The indonesian government is a mishmash of power plays and factions, the 2ic has strong links to Jamal Islamia.

The indonesion piloce force top brass has allegiances to Jamal Islamia and other Islamic fudiamentalist groups.

Our life style of peace and harmony, freedom and the fact that we can watch sport with only small picket fence is what these Islamic fundiamentalist groups despise about about our society.

[ferris]

Yes, lets get a few things straight, Gupta.

Is murder a crime? "...done for the purpose of gain, financial or otherwise." Possible gain by blowing up a nightclub? How about; you own a nearby nightclub, and pay some thugs to blow up the competition to improve your bottom line, except they go too far? Or, more probably; you wish to create a seperate state within the Indonesian territories. You hope that by murdering foreign tourists you will 1. destabilise the incumbent government, bringing your dream closer to reality 2. pay back meddling Australians for causing embarrassing withdrawal from East Timor 3. foster religious hatred to strengthen your argument for a seperate state 4. call the bombing a religious act, force people to choose 'sides' to further aims 1 and 3.

Muslims do not "despise our ... society". Ignorant assertion. I deplore our naivety.

[Bubbette]

Not all Muslims, militant Muslims. Their leaders, the sermons preached in mosques all decry the decadent, and worse, Western lifestyle and the non-Muslm infidels. They preach the murder of infidels. This is not a secret ferris--they are preaching the murder of Westerners. Go look up some weekly sermons and see what they say. Why is this so hard for you to accept?

[ferris]

Hard for me to accept? Because I listen to the sermons FIRST HAND, and you are spreading lies, playing straight into the terrorists' (and , I think, your own), schemes. The average sermon is absolutely no different to the Christian sermons of my childhood.

That is why I am posting. I am seeing a lot of what can only be described as ignorance or outright lies. Which is it?

[Woomera]

I am going to move this to Aircrew Notices and padlock it.

I let the previous thread run in this direction out of respect for the high emotions generated by this criminal outrage however motivated.

I think we have all got the message.

Let's just let it rest for a while, this Forum is not the place to try and solve the insoluble.