Meniers Disease

[skydriller]

I was talking to a relative last week and have just discovered that she apparently has something called Meniers disease, at least this is what she told me it was called – may have it spelled slightly wrong. But the reason for posting this is due to what she was apparently told by her doctor (a while ago now I must add). He said that if she was to fly in an aeroplane above nine or ten thousand feet then she was at risk of getting a blood clot in the brain. Since being told this quite a few years ago now, she has not wanted to fly anywhere on an airliner knowing that they go higher than this - obviously this has cut down on holiday options. When I heard her story I was a little perplexed by the doctors advice as I thought most airliners were pressurised to between 6000 – 8000 feet and thought he must have meant GA unpressurised aeroplanes.

So does anyone here know about this desease and has my relative been avoiding flying for no reason. Appreciate your comments, not sure if here or Questions is the right forum for asking about it.

Regards, SD.

[Bird Strike]

I know a few people with Meniere's disease, but they have been flying in normal passenger aircraft without any problem, and I asked them if they had been warned of this alleged 'blood clot' risk and they have never heard of it. However I haven't a clue whether this alleged risk exists or not, as I have no medical training.

[QDMQDMQDM]

I was talking to a relative last week and have just discovered that she apparently has something called Meniers disease, at least this is what she told me it was called – may have it spelled slightly wrong. But the reason for posting this is due to what she was apparently told by her doctor (a while ago now I must add). He said that if she was to fly in an aeroplane above nine or ten thousand feet then she was at risk of getting a blood clot in the brain.

No, this is an absolute load of old toss. I cannot imagine why anyone would have told her this. Anyway, as you say airliners are pressurised to 5-7,000 feet.

QDM

[curmudgeon]

My mother was told a few years ago that she had Menieres Disease. This must account for the fact that she was looking rather cream crackered after flying from EDI to NRT and hanging around in LHR for a few hours. I thought that her being in her late 70s might be something to do with it. She also was so weakened by the experience that it took her about 12 hours after arrival to start her criticisms of my lifestyle. Her dialogue in this period was gibberish, but in retrospect she may have been trying to speak to her newly arrived grandkid.

Irony off/

Skydriller, let your relative know that there should be no problems whatsoever. If my mother can do it, so can she!

cur

[skydriller]

Thanks to those who have replied,

I kind of thought it was not a problem to fly with Meniers disease, and will pass on some of the comments, but one doesnt argue with some relatives easily....if you know what I mean:rolleyes:

Thanks, SD..

[gonadz]

Better late than never...

First American in space Alan Shepherd was grounded for a number of years after contracting this disease. After corrective surgery he made a full return to flight status and went onto walk on the Moon on Apollo 14 in '71.

Hopefully the lady mentioned has already made it back to the skys by now, just thought I'd let you know.:8

[Silas Blattner]

Hello gonadz. Interesting that your better late than never was over a year after the original post. No criticism at all by the way.

I've lurked about looking for information about this affliction and was aware of Alan shepherd's successful shunt, but as these are often quoted as being ineffective in the long term I've wondered what happened to his symptoms subsequent to the moon trip. I haven't found anything in the biographies.

Up until the seventies this was an automatic permanent grounding for ordinary flying folk, but with enlightenment attempts were allowed to try to control the symptoms to a re-certifiable degree. The first guy in Europe was a Dutchman by vestibular nerve section I believe. It's still extremely difficult to reach a level of control compatible with flying, the US military quote statistics with the USAF giving a 25% rate of re-clearance and the USN being slightly more pessimistic. Every case is on individual merit, the CAA doesn't quote statistics and neither does the FAA.

The Log carried and small article about a Brit fairly recently and I assumed he was from BA but maybe he was VS. He again was re-cleared after a shunt - it would be interesting to know the (dis- indentified) details.

The original thread was concern at flying as a passenger and having the disease. Pressure changes are implicated in some individual's patterns of attacks. The physiology is not hard to imagine and indeed one method of treatment is the administration of calculated pressure waves via a generator and earpiece - the Meniett - developed originally in Sweden with a selection of affected divers and pilots ( I'm pretty sure). Still waiting for large scale validation.

All very interesting if you know someone with this deal.

rgds Silas.

[keithl]

"Shunt"?

Is this jargon? If so to which profession does it belong?

[strafer]

"Shunt"?
Is this jargon? If so to which profession does it belong?
I think a clue may be found in the forum title...

[keithl]

OK, so we have Jargon: Medical Profession. That's no surprise, but (is this Round Britain Quiz?) how is it derived, what does it mean, etc?? From the context, it must mean surgery, but how do we get from there to "Shunt"?

Sorry to distract from the thread, which I turned to because my mother has Meniere's, but I'm interested in words, too.

[redsnail]

A shunt is the term used when a vein or artery is joined by surgery to improve the blood flow or to change it's direction.
Eg, dialysis patients have a shunt in their wrists to allow big needles to be inserted so they can use a dialysis machine. The shunt in this case was an artery joined to a vein.

Here you go. Used Google dictionary and this is what it gave me. Search engines are a beautiful thing.

Medicine. A passage between two natural body channels, such as blood vessels, especially one created surgically to divert or permit flow from one pathway or region to another; a bypass

[strafer]

From Mrs Miggins' Medical Dictionary...


shunt
1. To turn to one side, to divert, to bypass.

2. <cardiology> A passage or anastomosis between two natural channels, especially between blood vessels. Such structures may be formed physiologically (for example to bypass a thrombosis) or they may be structural anomalies.

3. <surgery> A surgically created anastomosis, also, the operation of forming a shunt.

I'll stop being cocky now as I only had a vague idea of what it meant:ok:

[Silas Blattner]

Kiethl, thank you for qualifying your seemingly peremptory and obtuse remark. It may have been easier if you'd just asked what a shunt was.

Given the esoteric nature of the thread and forum no-one is going to apologise for using a remotely technical term. I don't even consider it jargon.

The OED gives the verb in its choo choo context to describe the re-positioning and diverting of traffic around a system, and also covers the electrical (n) application- the diversion of a large proportion of current to another part of a circuit. Rather akin to a bypass. Bypass you will be familiar with at least on your Speys if not the others. Jargon ? - not really, just another mildly technical term. Fair enough it doesn't cover the medical uses, of which this is just one.

Now it's a short leap of etymology to see that if you try to reduce the pressure of fluid inside the inner ear by planting a tube in a suitable place and venting (sorry for the jargon) it to a cavity it's like shunting or diverting the troublesome stuff to a harmless location. Hence Shunt.

The membraneous labyrinth ( that medical /aviation crossover again ) contains three compartments two containing perilymph, the other endolymph. These are liquids of opposing ionisation and are instrumental in the production of hearing and balance nerve impulses. Endolymph is enclosed in the central compartment if you like, a closed system with a reservoir called the Endolymphatic Sac. If control of the volume of this fluid is lost by whatever means - and just about everything has been implicated at one time or another - then overpressure is thought to exist. This is called Endolymphatic Hydrops - definitely medico- technical now. If this hydrops is inexplicable as part of any other disease complex such as syphilis or Lyme disease then it is mostly declared to be Meniere's disease.

The suitable place for the drainage tube, why didn't I call it that to start with ?, to be inserted is the Endolymphatic Sac, the cavity most often used as a sink is the mastoid venous sinus. So we have its full name - the Endolymphatic Mastoid Shunt.

The trouble is though the operation is simple (to a practised ENT surgeon) and safe it fails fairly often and if it works initially can tend to conk out some years down the track. It is attractive in that it conserves balance and hearing to a large degree if it works and superficially it looks logical enough. However ENT surgeons debate it's actual mechanism, some comparing the sac to a sponge and pointing out the hydrodynamics of cutting into a sponge.

Anyway I'm sure you've had enough by now. Hope that covers it, and sympathy to your mum.

Rgds Silas.

[keithl]

Well thank you one and all! I now know something I didn't before, so the day's well spent.

Silas, I don't accept my original post was peremptory and obtuse. I asked if it was jargon - you reply "No" - OK, I thank you. Neither did I ask for any apology for using jargon, I don't see it as a perjorative term - just one meaning "specialised technical language" and there was nothing in my question to indicate I objected to that.

My post was brief, sure, but that's not quite the same as "peremptory". Anyway, thanks for both the answer and the sympathy.