scientific proof ......... probably

[JohnnyPharm]

At the time of writing this, the degree holders have a better ratio than the plebs (just kidding) at passing the ATPL's 1st time. 7:2 against 10:7. This PROVES scientifically that degree holders are are probably more likely to pass 1st time, maybe.

Next time, I will run around and ask people the same questions, then it will be a gallop poll.

Clicked on "new message" instead of "post reply" regarding the above message. That message should have been a reply to "APTITUDE FOR ATPL'S"

Sorry Again.

[FlyingForFun]

I suspect there's an element of "cause and effect" here. I would expect degree-holders to have a better pass-rate than others, but not because they have a degree! The most important thing is having the dedication and the ability to study. Degree-holders have already proven that they've got this ability, because it's required to get a degree. That doesn't mean that people without a degree aren't capable of studying and passing all the ATPL exams first time - it just means that this ability hasn't already been proven.

FFF
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(PS - I have a degree, and I passed all of the Module 1 exams first time, with good marks. Haven't done the Module 2 exams yet. Don't believe my degree is at all relevant. The fact that I study in every spare minute is. Didn't vote on the original pole because there wasn't an appropriate option.)

[foghorn]

Bang on the money, FFF.

cheers!
foggy.

[JohnnyPharm]

Yeah I have no doubts that non-degree holders can pass all at first time. Just wanted to poll whether degree holders had a better pass rate due to the mind set to study.

The poll shows a slightly better ratio for degree holders at the moment, but then again the sample size isn't that great.

I have a degree in Pharmacy, so am used to chemistry and biology study. I have A level Maths and Physics, but the only real maths we used in the degree course was medical statistics. Anyway I don't really think my pharmacy degree will be of rlevance when I am identifying different cloud formations. I am just about to start ATPL's.

Cheers

[take_me_on_high]

A poll like this is a little unfair and judgemental. I haven't got a degree and I haven't done any real study for about 10 years, so I had to learn how to study again which has taken a few hurdles - including some failed exams. But that doesn't mean that one is not capable of understanding the subject. Passing first time really has no relevance on your overall capability. To finish your ATPL's you are going to have to learn how to study anyway, unless of course you pass by the skin of your teeth by remembering feedback and remembering the questions in the exams for the last 3 attempts you did. In which case any employer would be dubious.
I think that a poll like this only strengthens the distance that some degree holders may put themselves above others. To be taller than the standing crowd is a given thing, to be on stilts is to suppose your taller. (made that one up myself!-without a degree - teehee)
On the other hand, I do believe that a degree can show a certain amount of discipline to study and also a degree in a relevant area will help to a certain amount. I am considering doing BSc (Honours) Natural Sciences - all that stuff that is mostly related in the aviation world. Of course it's an OU course so I won't be leaving my aviation career in the lurch.
I do on the other hand worry that to apply for a job without a degree will automatically knock me out of the runnings for some jobs. Any thoughts?
Best of luck to all
JD

[vicarofdibley]

Well I have 3 degrees, including a masters.

I passed all the ATPLs first time, but on my CPL I forgot to push everything fully forward on my asymmetric GA so I got a partial.

That was really really stupid.

As someone really clever once said "there is no-one so ignorant as an educated man."

Yes I still do kick myself, and with my IR coming up I wonder what the chances of me doing the same thing again are?

To pass the ATPLs "Dedication is what you need" and luck, and good feedback.