Concorde priority?

[Oliver James]

There is a rumour flying around (pardon the punn) that Concorde is to be given priority on the approach if it hasn't got the fuel to accept the delay. Being shorthaul it shouldn't happen to us but if somebody else has to divert in order that that thing doesn't have to I should think they will be pretty p****d off.

Any body else know anything?

OJ

[M.Mouse]

How many aircraft have had to divert because of 'that thing' then?

I am sure that the once a day that Concorde lands causes massive disruption.

Frankly I don't care that it may or may not have to hold like the rest of us. It makes no difference to my day but I am proud that this rather special piece of Anglo-French engineering is still doing what no other aircraft has been able to do.

I will now sit back and watch this thread degenerate into a slanging match like most threads seem to do these days.
:D :D :D

[WorkingHard]

OJ - Perhaps you are right. What is in no doubt however is that this superb bit of Britain at it's best is still a world beater. 30+ years on no one has come close to the brilliant engineering achievments it represents. It can never affect my flight so I shall refrain from comment on the specifics of this topic

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I'm not permitted to discuss Concorde procedures..... But, I'm not aware that any other a/c has had to divert due to Concorde and it causes no "disruption" under normal conditions. It's a magic machine and I'm proud to have had the privilege of working with it for so long. I still drop everything and run outside to watch it when it passes overhead.

[curmudgeon]

Usually, us Brits have got an amazing ability to shoot ourselves in the foot in the name of fair play to all. Lets stop this and do what Johnny foreigner does as a matter of course. For such a flagship aircraft, it should be allowed to skip the queue.

Anyway, if Concorde does go from 10th to 1st, doesn't everyone else just drop down a place? If going from 7th to 8th does cause someone else to divert, surely they must have been pretty marginal on fuel anyway?

cur

[5milesbaby]

If Concorde does go number one, then it'll affect the landing times by what, one minute. If its that much of an emergency (shortage) even Concorde can declare a mayday/pan and then get the priority anyway, just like anyone else. And, having no dealings with Concorde procedures, I believe that if it goes number one, then the BA a/c that was first then picks up Concorde's delay.

PS. I have seen it holding at OCK before.

[411A]

Good thing "it" arrives during the daytime, not in the middle of the night, otherwise...."it" might find the ATC sector unmaned;) ;) :rolleyes:

[nojacketsrequired]

Yawn,yawn.
One bag of popcorn and a large soda!!!!.
Time for bed.

NJR.

[FlapsOne]

I'm not permitted to discuss Concorde procedures

Why on earth not ??

[120.4]

We could tell you... but then we'd have to shoot you. Sorry.

point 4
:)

[Tom the Tenor]

Concorde procedures - Official Secrets Act??

Why is Concorde allowed to take off from the active landing runway at Heathrow? Nearly caught me on the hop looking out the window at The Renaissance Hotel a few weeks ago.

Have to concede, though, that she was a glorious site to behold rotating off 09L. A class of her own.

[CowboyEngineer]

<How many aircraft have had to divert because of 'that thing' then?

I am sure that the once a day that Concorde lands causes massive disruption. >

Ummm, yes, and those of us who fly on it (like me a few Fridays ago) appreciate having the Proles wafted aside as we come in
:p

(also, we have our own express line at passport control, too!)

[mutt]

Tom,

From what i have read on Pprune, during the summer they were resurfacing the LHR runways, during this time there was a bump on the runway where the two layers of tarmac met (old /new). Concorde was allowed to avoid this bump by using the other runway!

Mutt.

[Banana99]

What happens at JFK?

[FlapsOne]

It's an airport!

[Banana99]

Smartarse/Flaps one/non-funny person

the question had a context

[sirwa69]

Banana

Flaps 1's answer to your question was completely accurate and to the point. If you were looking for a more specific answer then perhaps you should have asked a more specific question. :eek:

Concorde: Gorgeous
:) :)

I think I'll now pop down to the Concorde restaurant in the British Club for lunch just so I can see the wonderful picture of it. :D :D

[Banana99]

The topic of the thread is "Concord Priority", there then was a number of replies relating to the aircraft's 'special' handling at LHR. My reply asked what happened at JFK.

But don't bother, I think I've had enough of this non-friendly, supercilious, cleverer-than-thou attitude and I'll now **** off for good.

[danfulton]

FlapsOne,

Well I laughed out load - v. funny !

[gaunty]

My mum brought me up (actually dragged is probably closer to the point) to allow "ladies first", to always walk on the outside of the pavement and respect my betters, until someone comes along with a better idea it suits me.:cool:

Even after 30 plus years, it is still one amazing bit of gear and is on my itinerary for the next family holiday up there.

point 4 ROFLMAO, such impertinance from Flaps One. ;) :D must be one of us colonial oiks.:)

[Vagina Decliner]

I'm not in a position to discuss Concorde procedures either but I'll post this here to try and create the impression that I'm 'part of the loop' and somehow more important than I actually am.

[Tcas climb]

Can't BA swop allocations? Concorde jumps to the front, where the first BA flight were suppose to land and all BA's other flights go down the queue, untill the Concordes original number in the queue is reached.

[Suggs]

We may or may not give one A/c a bit of priority, just go to Madrid and be bumped down the queue, because there is an Iberia somewhere over Malaga, Rome with Ali or Paris with anyone who is not a Speedbird.

[packsonflite]

Not a lot of people know that!

[NW1]

Hi Oliver,

We get no priority or special handling over other traffic at LHR other than any "slot swapping" which the company may be able to organise with other own-company a/c (this obviously affects no other non-BA traffic). Even this practice is being restricted now since it can load up atc.

Having said that, we are very rarely tighter for fuel than any other long-range operation. If indications are that holding is likely at LHR inbound from JFK (e.g. strong winds, unservicabilities etc.) we can usually load about 45' holding fuel without a problem. Inbound from Barbados is a little tighter, but using the same rules as everyone else for diversion fuel can still result in 20 to 30 minutes of holding capability most times.

Bottom line - we fly by the same rules as anyone else, and if that means we go to LGW then that we do. Holding is a part of life at LHR and we plan accordingly - the fiction about Concorde's fuel capability is far more dramatic than the reality - and anyway we certainly are not in a position to require other air traffic to give way unless the company can shuffle its own assets around with the slot-swap procedure (and this is very rare - I've done it myself once in 3 years of Concorde flying).

Same at JFK although rarely a problem since we arrive there at low-traffic periods.

Best,
NW1

[Christopher James]

NW1

No longer the case old boy. You may not be aware of it but your ops. will be. NATS management have seen fit to grant Concorde the RIGHT to jump the queue, NO SLOT SWAP INVOLVED (but don't talk about it). ;)

So, although you fly by the same rules, you know you won't have to divert and therefore are at a commercial advantage over the rest of the field. The holding capabilities you quote are not those given to ATC, particularly on the Barbados run.

I wonder if NATS may now receive applications from other non-UK outfits requesting the same privilege.

CJ

[zkdli]

What you don't seem to be taking from this is that , nats has always been a first come first served organisation. Now apparantly a decision has been taken allegedly by management that allegedly allows one airline priority over all others operating into britains biggest airport.
AND if this a/c does get priority when eats are inforced then it is not just one minute it is the two a/c slots that it takes on final approach ,in lvps for example, that could have been your slot, and yes after holding for forty minutes at ockham to be told at your eat that you have to hold for another five minutes could mean that your 747 is diverted to manchester!
This, procedure is allegedly so sensitive that the atco's involved have been told not to mention it on the r/t or on tels. That is why they aren't talking.

[NW1]

Chris,

It would appear you have a deeper understanding of my operation than I.

I have flown 4 other types with 3 other operators. Our flying manual procedures remain the same - our flying crew orders remain the same. Our fuel planning considerations at pre-flight are based on the same concerns and rules as any other fleet. If we need it, we load up as available. If EAT exceeds holding ability, we divert (this does happen).

I am not aware, nor have been told, any differently.

I am intrigued by your assurance that I will never go to LGW. I'm not saying you're wrong (as I say, you appear to know more than I), but I'll send you a postcard from Crawley if and when that happens......;)

PS: If I were running the show I would not only *not* ask for priority, I would *insist* on a level playing field (inter-company tactical slot swaps aside - for all fleets - I think that makes commercial sense). We are all proud of our SST's ability to fit in, and we know that it can - but at the end of the day we are only players like anyone else: they give us the bat and we play ball with it, but we are not the umpires and are therefore powerless in that respect.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

NW1... didn't you get my private message? HD

[Christopher James]

NW1

I'll email you.

CJ



:)

[Flame]

Workinghard

"OJ - Perhaps you are right. What is in no doubt however is that this superb bit of Britain at it's best is still a world beater"

Was it not an Anglo - French built aircraft..?
;) :p

[gordonroxburgh]

I would point out that on a couple of occasions since she went back into service she has ended up at LGW due to ATC having to deal with longish delays for one reason or another at LHR. So its not all plain sailing.

On the ocassion I can remember the 21:15 service ended at LGW and the aircraft made a short positioning flight back to LHR - getting in just before the 23:00 ban.

[rupetime]

If Virgin bought a Concorde would it be offered the same
privileges ?