Aptitude for passing ATPL

[JohnnyPharm]

Just want to test the water if having a University/College bachelors or higher degree helps you pass ATPL's first time as opposed to non Bachelor/degree holders. Not trying to pigeon hole anyone, just want to see if the studying mind set helps before you start. Thanks.

[redsnail]

Your motivation will largely determine whether or not you will pass. Effective study techniques are more important than whether or not you have a degree. Self motivation and organisation is very important.

[Gin Slinger]

As someone who's passed his first set of ATPL's, and really should be revising right now for the last of my second set, I'd say the most important aptitude to actually pass the exams is to have a photographic memory for feedback.

Also, the ability not to think too deeply about some of the answers to the questions they ask.

Perseverance is the name of the game here, not bits of meaningless papery things like degree certificates.

Bring on Air Law at 9am tomorrow!

[VIRTUAL-REALITY]

Hi guy's and gal's,
I do not have a degree and I was lucky enough to pass most first time. I started them when JAR fist came out and feedbak was not available, now there is no excuse for not passing first time with all the feedback kicking around. This is not to say that you need not study the books as this would be a big mistake. Try to pick out the sort of areas they are questioning and make sure you know why the answer is the answer.
My answer to the survey would be, no you do not need a degree, but just a sound basic brain that can work methodically.
Happy Studying and good luck

[foghorn]

People with degrees are more likely to have developed good study methods than Joe Bloggs. This will put them at an initial advantage to those without degrees where studying for the ATPL theory exams are concerned.

However, as has been said, there is no substitute for perseverance, and plenty of people without degrees have loads of that. Also don't discount the factor of people with degrees being more blase about the amount of study required, than a keen non-graduate.

cheers!
foggy.

[spittingimage]

I honestly doubt that having a university degree, in itself, helps with the ATPL exams - especially if, like me, your degree was awarded some 30 years ago ! So you can relax on that point. It is more to do with having an interest in and displaying monumental dedication to the task. I am with redsnail on his points here too. I also think there is a fair proportion of luck involved - many come out of an exam really not having a clue whether they have passed or failed.

I did mine using correspondence plus brush-up (PPSC/Bristol) and it was hard, with 4 resit papers en route. If I were to start again (joke !) and had the time, I would do it full-time. Working in a 9-5 job, evenings and weekends stuck in back bedroom, studying in isolation, particularly with a family to run, I cannot recommend. If possible, therefore, do as I say, not as I did.

Believe me, the whole world is a much brighter place when you finally pass the lot !

[JohnnyPharm]

At the time of writing this, the degree holders have a better ratio than the plebs (just kidding) at passing the ATPL's 1st time. 7:2 against 10:7. This PROVES scientifically that degree holders are are probably more likely to pass 1st time, maybe.

Next time, I will run around and ask people the same questions, then it will be a gallop poll.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

I had not sat in a class room since my A levels 10 years ago,
when I sat mine I passed all first time except Met theory (72%).

You dont need a degree to pass these exams comfortably, it pays to take 6 months out of your life and just go for it. I did 13hour study days for four months solid and the exams didn't stand a chance

;)

[jonathang]

With such a small sample of answers.

7:2 is not enouch to prove anything.

You would need a wider sample.

[Bagelman]

My degree didn't help me at all. Mind you it is in American Literature. Just hard work, especially for Gen Nav in my case got me through. But I did drop Mass and Balance by 1%, think I missed a question out or forgot my name or something!:confused: Anyway good luck to all who taking them, the thought of doing air law again makes me feel very sleepy.

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

I think it goes without saying that if you have a degree that aviation based its helpful. NOT ESSENTIAL!. Something like, Media studies,philosophy,drama aren't going to get you anywhere in aviation, and more likely confuse your potiental empolyeers as to why!

Experience is the best, i've found.

[straight&level]

Its not aptitude that has the greatest bearing on first time passes but ATTITUDE. Having been an instructor at the big school somewhere in oxfordshire in the last few years I have come across students from all sorts of backgrounds-the vast majority have not had a degree.
Their success in the exams tends to be in direct proportion to the effort they put in,followed by good teaching and finally FEEDBACK.
Of course some really do not have the apptitude but with a lot of hard work and perseverence they have finally got through, and from personal experience it was worth the effort.
My own experiences:
CPL's some ten years ago-3 times to get the pass,my attitude was at fault.
ATPL's some 3 years ago-first time pass in all subjects,thankyou ATA (pete lines and quinlin),much improved attitude but I wouldnt say my aptitude was any different.

[TJV]

Ditto.

The ATPL exams are 80% Attitude and 20% Aptitude

CPL and IR skills tests are 20% Attitude and 80% Aptitude

[Ufiti_GB]

It seems that with the implementation of the JAR ATPL exam application changes (the forms needs to be stamped / signed off by the training provider when the student is, in the opinion of the school, capable of passing, and not self certified as such like the old CAA exams) there are fewer people failing the exams. Therefore the degree scenario would seem little justified as you shouldn't be sitting the exams until you have reached a minimum standard. Granted, training may take longer and cost more, but if it works then so be it.

That said, it could be argued that attitude, coupled with the ability not to get flustered in an exam class sitaution is of more importance than holding a degree in flower arranging or greek classics.

[empty pockets]

i am currently completing my 4th year of a Meng aerospace engineering degree. having looked at a friends atpl notes/sample questions etc. i would say that i have only a slight advantage having covered some of the topics at uni (aerodynamics PofF etc.).

most things you cover at uni only stay fresh in your head for a short period of time, in my case its gone by the time i get to the bar after the exam!

the atpl manual also seems to present the info. in a more accessible format, with the information provided more relevant to actually flying an aircraft.

i would agree that attitude is more important. its the end result that drives you to study. an fatpl is a pretty big carrot to chase, a degree (looking at many of my peers) is simply a life experience before joining the real world

if i had the choice again, i would have passed on the opportunity to attend university. i will owe approx. £15000 in student loans as well as a hefty overdraft (£3k). this will have a huge effect on the amount of money i will be able to access for training purposes. i could have spent an extra £7 - 10k and, like my friend, be the holder of a JAR fatpl by now.

but hey, i'll get there in the end, and it'll be fun whatever happens.....

[P.Pilcher]

As an ex teacher,lecturer, examiner, instructor (flying and ground) and CPL +ATPL holder with first time written passes, the only thing that I would like to add to the excellent advice and encouragement given above is to READ THE F*****G QUESTION when it comes to sitting the examinations and make sure that the instructiions contained therin are followed exactly. I apologise for being so rudely pointed about it, but I say it because of the large number of friends and acquaintances who I have helped in this direction have admitted, on failing, that if they had only read the question properly....... The thing was that these individuals were in the main acaedemically bright, knew their subjects well and had no excuse for failing for this reason. BUT IT HAPPENS!!
DON't LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU!!!

Once again, apologies for shouting.

Best of luck in your exams!

P.P.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

I have a good degree in a none technical subject and failed nine ATPL theory exams in total, one subject I failed twice. I was 100% motivated and with what was supposed to be a top ground school. I passed all 14 in the end but I can't see any relationship between having a degree and breezing the ATPL's. Having a technical degree may well provide a good platform to start from. I wouldn't do an aero engineering on the basis of it coming in handy for passing ATPL's though.

The one piece of advice that got me through the dark days of ATPL theory came from these forums. It was to remember that ATPL exams may turn into a battle of attrition between you and the JAA. Hang on in there when things are going badly and if you fail an exam first time, treat it as a live practice and learn from it. Also, if you are struggling with your ground school, be brutal, change to another one. This worked for me.

[RVR800]

Johnny ... I'd stick with the Pharmacy..
Its a career with a future...

[JohnnyPharm]

Nah, counting tablets can only stimulate the mind for so long. A long haul flight might just be more exciting.

[VFE]

Passed the ATPL's with no A-Levels and just 4 GCSE above C grades. Not heard of any employers delving into your pass rate for ATPL's but they are likely to ask if you passed your IR first time.

As has been said, the ATPL's are all about dedication in wading through the quantity of work. Worrying about a scientific or mathematic background is pretty pointless from a self-sponsored perspective because I never even passed those subjects at GCSE level let alone degree level however, managed the ATPL's! Probably because I screwed around at school but I digress as always.....

Choosing the correct school is the key. I would vote Bristol Groundschool without a moments hesitation. Best advice I could possibly give anyone to be honest.

VFE.

[mad_jock]

Actually my Captain today was a shop keeper :p JohnnyPharm will understand the dig


Great pre job for a pilot. Whenever he needs extra cash he does a bit of locum work. If he is out of work he can afford to stay current with again locum work. Sorted.

Stick with it m8. Plumbers, Pharm, Opticians are allways going to be good backups for pilots.

MJ

[JohnnyPharm]

Mad Jock

Thats what I do now, a locum pharmacist. Always plenty of work and paid not too bad either.

If I ever make it to the RHS, will prob do a locum every month to keep my hand in.

[Fuel Crossfeed]

I have 6 GCSE's at C grade, no A levels, and no degree.
My 1st attempt at the CAA ATPL Nav subjets I did not even get a partial pass, on the second attempt I received a partial and complete the 3 outstanding exams on the 3rd attempt.
My CAA Tech exams I received a partial on the 1st attempt completed the 2 remaining exams on the 2nd attempt.
I found at was a quantity issue, cramming all the work and a lot of b*llsh*t into my pea sized brain.
I partialled passd on my I/R first time, and completed 2nd sitting on the 1st series.
I now fly the B757 and am a flying instructor.
You dont need degrees and qualifications coming out of your ears to get through it, just pure determination a wanting to do the job and of course some flying ability.

[IndiaAlphaLima]

I studied aerospace engineering at university and in some ways it helped and in others it was a hinderence.

I had a large amount of information in my head not entirely pertinent to the JAA ATPL subjects as well as some conflicting information (particularly in pof and a/c general). However I was able to study effectively and pass thirteen out of the fourteen subjects first time. (missed law by 1%).

Do i regret my time at university? no it was fun and perhaps helped me grow up a bit (just a bit!). I also learned study techniques and discipline to study when I couldn't be bothered. I also have been able to obtain a good mark and security in case i lose my medical.

I'm very lucky that I had great support from my instructors at the groundschool (thanks Send Clowns) as well confidence to use progress test as a template for areas of weakness ( i didn't study for them, i used my poor marks to indicate areas of weakness).

In the end it's your call but I would recommend it from a personal view. Not everyone has a degree in this industry and as such many of the best pilot's I have met do not. if it's not your bag don't waste your time but if you want to do it. there's nothing worse than having regrets!

IndiaAlphaLima