BA managers in £100M windfall bonus

[Fanny Batter]

BA management will be in line for a £100M bonus this year after over estimating the cost of job losses.
Apparently they hadn't budgeted for those staff who were so pi***d off with the way the comapny was being run into the ground, they either left of their own free will or died!


This figure will be divided up equally between all management grades (and lackeys)and will result in a bonus of £2000 each for all 50000 of them.

Read all about it....


http://www.thisismoney.com/20021006/nm53986.html

[Meeb]

I think you will find the 'saving' will go to shareholders and not managers!

[mjenkinsblackdog]

Its going to look a bit embarassing accepting that when 13000 are out of a job.
Its time to send rod home 3rd class.:cool:

[huw stunn]

There are not 50,000 BA managers - so that is crap.

Given the current company results, I am sure that any money no used for severance payments will be swallowed up pretty quickly.

[curmudgeon]

oh dear oh dear

The article that I read highlighted by FB's post said that BA had estimated the cost of laying off staff this year and next to be £200m. However, "company sources" said that the cost so far was only £20m. The amount set aside (pesumably provisioned in the accounts) was £80m.

According to these "company sources" some 7000 staff out of an estimated 13000 due to go have left without any severance payment. As this is about half the total number, I presume that taking half the total estimated cost gives the "windfall" of £100m. This is also confirmed by the nameless BA executive's confidence that total costs will be just under £100m.

Using this argument is like saying "If I go out this afternon to buy a new car it will cost me £25,000. Therefore, if I don't go out this afternoon to buy a new car, I'll have saved £25,000." Taking this analogy further, if I don't buy a new car this week, I'll have saved £25, 000 per day so my savings will be £125,000 by the weekend.

FB, where in the article does it mention that this "windfall" will be distributed to 50,000 managers by way of bonus? Thats a bit like me telling my wife that she's got £125,000 to spend because I didn't buy a new car this week. Just because you don't spend money that you haven't got, doesn't mean that you have to go out and spend it on something else!

Don't forget that the average journalist knows as much about finance as they do about aviation. Please don't compound their errors by making up bits to fill the gaps.

cur

[Crash_and_Burn]

I agree, purly an accounting fiddle. Nothing but Funny Money.

I also failed to notice anywhere in the article where it said the money would be coming to little ole' me? Did I miss something or did FB make the whole thing up?

I would have thought that the company will switch the 60M it thinks it might be saving from redundancies and put it into the, what if war breaks out pot, or the what if we don't reach a pay agreemnt and things turn nasty account. It sure as hell will not be going into my current account.


Another point, if BA has 53000 workers, 3000 of which are pilots, 13000 crew, where do you get 50000 managers form? The last I remember it figure was something like 4000 max.

C&B

[Fanny Batter]

Apologies for attempting to inject some humour into the subject,
the article is real enough, the second part was my attempt to be funny but as I have to explain it I assume it wansn't.:)

Perhaps it may only appeal to anyone whos ever worked there but the place is top heavy with mis-managers. You only have to glance at the Beano (BA News) every friday to see the amount of management grade jobs advertised in Waterworld, the titles of some of them are beyond belief.

I'll try not to let it happen again.

:rolleyes:

[fiftyfour]

I would guess that 2/3rds of any money that BA doesn't actually have and has fortunately not had to spend on a redundancy package, will go towards paying interest on it's huge debts. Last accounts showed £5.9billion in debts, and 2/3rds of all revenue goes on servicing these loans.
I hope every redundant person gets every penny due, and more, because the management of BA has been a disaster. I doubt it has been due to individual persons at crew level, but collectively it's been a cock-up.

[Nigel Nearly]

Personally, I will bet my profit share/bonus this year that the real reason for the surplus is as follows:

BA HAVE NOT IN FACT LET THAT MANY PEOPLE GO!!!!

It is all smoke and mirrors, and measured in manpower equivalents, gardening leave, and re-namin of job descriptions and part time working and contracting. This is one reason why the City is still marking the shares down!:rolleyes:

[Jet II]

Nigel Nearly, has a point - I personally don't know anyone who has actually left. All the reductions that I have seen are by manpower equivalents and gardening/unpaid leave - and a lot of the guys who went on unpaid are now returning.
:confused:

[Notso Fantastic]

So Fanny, given that probably no managers, and certainly no Flight Crew, are going to get a penny piece bonus, would you rename the idiotic title of this thread, or delete it? You are quite intentionally making a misleading and untruthful item of news here, and I do not think it is adequate to plead 'humour'. I have re-read it and can find absolutely nothing 'funny'.

[Jet II]

Of course one of the reasons that the reductions have come in under budget is the policy of mismanagement to mess people around so that they get so fed - up that they leave without any pay off.

At the moment Engineers are being forcibly transferred from LGW to LHR - it seems that mismanagers are deliberatly targetting staff who live close to LGW for whatever reason (ie they use public transport, cycle or walk to work, don't have access to a car, etc. etc.)

One guy was posted to LHR who couldn't drive - managers response on being asked how to get there each day - 'buy a moped' (50 miles each way around the M25?)

Another guy who has a medical problem and cannot go too long without visiting the loo was supplied with a list of public toilets and petrol stations that were along his route to LHR.

It shows how overmanned BA are in managers if they have the time to compile a list of public conveniances!

On a slightly different tack - it appears that BA mismanagers are trying to identify staff who post on the engineers web site (ww.airmech.co.uk) with a view to taking disciplinary action against them for anything they write. I have also heard that BA's lawyers may also be getting involved - so ensure that your identities are secure in case the mismanagement try anything on this site.

[Crash_and_Burn]

Jet II

in my department 11 people have left, and considering there was less than 40 to begin with, it is a very large hole to try and fill.

The majority who have left have gone on early retirement, or severence. But that is logical, because, who is going to actually leave for free at the moment?

If I had a decent and better paid job offer from outside, I'd be taking the years pre-tax money and jumping ship, quicker than a lemming off a cliff!

I can assure everyone that people are leaving, but it does seem strange that the money that was set aside for severence has not been used up. maybe it is all short timers that are doing a runner, while the people it would cost a lot of money to off-load are hanging around.

C&B

[Jet II]

Crash_and_Burn

If I had a decent and better paid job offer from outside, I'd be taking the years pre-tax money and jumping ship, quicker than a lemming off a cliff!


I am absolutely fed up with all the screwing around at the moment and would love severance - however our department is not giving any to anyone - if it did I would be gone like a shot, even without another job to go to.

[Notso Fantastic]

Folks, times was that if you wanted to move to another job, you offered your resignation, cocked your head to one side hoping the Boss would offer more to stay, then cleared your stuff and went! All this hanging around hoping someone would offer a King's ransom to launch you away from an airline in a parlous state is not good for your ulcers! If you want to go and you have another offer, jump! Otherwise, bleeding that nobody is paying you to go won't incite a lot of sympathy from BA shareholders!

Now I'm stil awaiting Fanny Batters response to my challenge to justify his daft assertion that 'BA managers in £100M windfall bonus' was a fair or honest statement to make.

[Sex Kitten]

I appreciated the delivery , we are top heavy and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if certain peoples KRAs (hence bonus) is in the saving of this money:)
I thought this was supposed to be a rumour network, do all rumours now have to be fair or honest (or even true!).
The heading caught my attention, the article caught my interest.

[Fright Level]

Notso, like me you probably cringe when you hear the plate layers moaning and say they are waiting for a severance package to look attractive. "If you don't like it, then why not f off" is my usual reply. Why on earth these people think BA owes them a future because they don't like the job beats me. Some layers have had it too good for too long.

Fanny Batter tries to appear on the inside, but no-one I knows calls "BA News" the Beano and it's been published on a Thursday for the last year. Friday Firelighter did have a nice ring to it though!

[Notso Fantastic]

Without any proof or verification, there is a point where a 'rumour' becomes a deceitful lie. I'm quite prepared to believe it if there is any significant supporting evidence, but at the moment, it makes a fool of everybody reading this forum because I maintain it is untrue and it is treating people as gullible. If there is any evidence, please provide! The moment the 'Rumour' title of the Forum becomes an 'OK to lie if you want', then tens of thousands of people will kiss it goodbye overnight.

I fly 747s for a Big British carrier. From my chats with my colleagues, HARDLY ANY of them use Pprune, especially the Reporting Points. If it comes up in conversation, most of them react identically- a shiver and a disparaging comment of 'I used to look in, but it's awful- I haven't been in in years'. I can see why when plain untruths are bandied around like this as 'news'!

[BOROUGH COUNCIL]

This thread is full of humour. I love it and think it was well posted. The entire cutback-trimming thing is a mind game. Even better then the initial thread is Notso Fantastic's impending ulcer. Wow.

[Notso Fantastic]

It's not meant to be full of humour, it's supposed to be full of NEWS. Quite simple really. If people want to let rip with their imagination, how about Jet Blast? In the meantime, this thread, and pointless postings like yours, are the reason so few of my pilot colleagues actually bother coming in to Pprune. It's becoming less essential whilst there is so little hard news and so much surmising. Why the world and his wife finds it so fascinating to nose around here I'll never understand. All the more reason that the private forums are needed, but looking at this particular forum these days, I can see why so many actual professional pilots don't bother with Pprune at all! It's been abandoned to every wannabe/wouldn't it be nice if I had been!

[HOVIS]

So hardly anyone has left have they?

Engineering MAN. August 2001 staff level 160.

October 2002 staff level 39.

Engineering at BHX is to go completely soon.

Many of the MAN staff were told to leave the company or move to LHR.
The severance package was LESS than the Flight Engineers got but BA said they could not afford it anymore.

That is why Fanny batter is upset and chooses to vent his spleen in such a sardonic manner.

Notso, lighten up for **** sake.:mad:

[Minesagrolsch]

BOROUGH COUNCIL (?),
This thread is not full of humour.
But it is certainly full of tossers stating a total load of crap,trying,as usual in Reporting Points to stir things by pretending that some far-fetches story that they have just concocted is actually fact.
NotsoF is 100% right.Most professional pilots regard Reporting Points as a place where sad little kids post total fiction in the hope that someone may actually believe them and start a two-way dialogue.I suppose it gives them a break from playing with the flights sims on the pc and watching Cartoon Network !
The only worthwhile info in PPruNe is normally found within the private airline forums,where 90% of the prats here couldn't gain access-based mainly on the fact that airlines don't tend to employ spotty-faced losers who once had a trial lesson and got airsick.

HOVIS,

you sign off with "GIZAJOB".


I think that is unlikely,somehow.





PS
One wholemeal,one white please,and can you slice them.Thanks

[BOAC]

While I agree with the sentiments expressed by many about the 'quality' of posts on RP, may I point out to all the 'professionals' that there are some excellent other forums on PPrune than the 'private' ones, and I suggest if they have not done so, they have a look at ATC/Safety etc/Tech Log/Computers for starters, and perhaps some of their faith can be restored?

[cargo boy]

NotSoFantastic, why don't you just succumb to your peer pressure and bog off somewhere else. All we seem to get from you is incessant moaning about what is posted on this forum being beneath your itellect and standing in the airline community.

If you assume that the entire pilot community are just like you in your cloistered world of a Big Airlines long haul megafleet then you are obviously not as bright as you like us to believe. Just because you have asked your colleagues on the flight deck whether they read Pprune and the result of your straw poll is "not any more (shudder)" then I would think that at least half of them wouldn't admit it to you anyway and the other half are not going to provoke you into one of your incessant moans for the next few hours of the flight!

I agree that there are often some supercillious posts but in general most of the threads that stay on here have something worth discussing. The posts about the holding fuel for just one example are very interesting and I don't see a lot of silly posts by the Flight Sim 2000 brigade. Overall I think that the moderators are doing a good job in keeping the content relevant in the appropriate forums. I suggest you take some nerve calming drugs before you go into rant mode and slag off Pprune with your sweeping statements about the content.

Before you burst a blood vessel whilst replying just don't assume that the persons forum name or profile has much relevance to their actual occupation or knowledge and understanding of the airline business, just as we won't assume your forum name has any relevance either.

Same applies to Minesagrolsch and BOAC.

[Fanny Batter]

Cargo boy, Dont take old NotSoSpastic too seriously, hes just someone on a windup. Hes a sort of Victor Meldrew and Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells all rolled into one and some of his 'rantings' are hilarious and certainly provoke some good discussions. He plays the role of a senior BA LH pilot who believes BA only exists for the pilots and the pilots are the only people who should be working for BA and every one else should be got rid of or farmed out etc.
If you review his posts you'll see he never actually starts any he justs jumps in and tells you you shouldnt have started one, or that you should have posted it elsewhere etc etc or tosses in a highly contraversial opinion then sits back and watches it degenerate, as I said some of them are highly amusing.
Try it for yourself and see, just post a topic close to his heart, light the blue touch papera and retreat a safe distance. You have to bait him though so your post should include some of the following words, though not necessarily in this order......
"BA pilots, strike, pay parity, with CSDs" etc etc....
Have fun.