British European Sponsorship in FI

[VTOL]

Well, hot on the tail of the Air2k sponsorship ad is the British European part sponsorship ad in colaboration with Cabair. I just hope this one isn't a victim of advertising delays like A2k... we wait with bated breath!

Anyway the details are:

Age 20 - 28 on 1st March 2002
Min 2 A levels C or above
Ability to obtain a Class 1 Medical
Right to work in UK

Send a stamped, self addressed envelope to

The Sponsorship Secretary/BE7
Cabair College of Air Training
Cranfield Airport
Bedford
MK43 0JR

Closing Date 1st November.

Good luck everyone.

VTOL :D

[fritz_2001]

Just to add that the cadet contribution is a fraction over £32,000 this time around and that the course starts in march 2002.

I guess I'll be talking to the bank today then!!!

Best of luck guys

major wannabee

[funkster]

Does anyone know at what point you have to prove that you can come up with the £32000?? I mean can you wait until you have passed the selection process before getting on your knees to the bank manager? OR does British European/Cabair need to see concrete evidence of the cash before being accepted??

[Sagey]

It has to be paid some time in February prior to starting the course in March.

There are few places on the course. I don't know how willing a bank would be to lend someone 30k at the moment!!

Sagey

[fritz_2001]

The prosprectus says that they are looking to sponsor 4 people and yes the money must be payed by sometime in feb 2002. I have a meeting at the bank tommorrow so I guess I'll find out then whether or not its even worth paying for the application/aptitudes/interviews!! Fingers crossed.

major wannabee

[furymonastry]

So we have to send a stamped self addressed evolope into the address....but what else do we send in at this stage?...
Do we need to send in a CV and covering letter?... :cool:

[monkeyboy]

I've just spoken to one of the ladies at Cabair and she confirmed that it was still going ahead.

She told me to send a SAE, so I'm going to assume a covering letter will do that job, much like last year.

Good luck to all those who apply!

MB

[funkster]

Ok so the money has to be paid sometime in Feb 2002, so they don't require any proof that you've actually got the money before feb 2002? i.e. they would offer you a place on the scheme before seeing any proof, and just assume that you could make the payment date?

My point here is, I would say that the biggest hurdle would be getting the place on the scheme, i.e. it would seem pointless pleading with a bank to give you the money for a place on a training scheme which you haven't got yet, and the chances of getting aren't too great. So could you wait to see if your selection is successful before going through the bank to get hold of the money??

Anyone know how long would it take to get a loan of that size from a bank, ie from day of you asking to day account is credited? (assuming you could provide all the paperwork they ask for and eg secure it with a house)

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: funkster ]

[EGDY2]

Maybe I'm from the old school but I thought sponsorship meant that the company paid for the training.

Stumping up £32,000 !!! Better doing it yourself - somebody is taking the p*ss !!!! :eek:

[VTOL]

Ed, would the words "job at the end of it" change your attitude? As opposed to spending 30k and then looking for 6-12 months your first RH seat job? Just a thought....

Good luck to all who apply,
VTOL :D

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: VTOL ]

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Oh come on. You cannot moan about airlines offering partial sponsorship. For heavens sake there is a JET JOB waiting at the end of it.

I've no idea why BA don't insist on £10k up front - everyone can get hold of that sort of cash, it would save BA a Million quid every 10 years or so, it would get rid of the applicants who apply on a whim and get lucky. Everyones happy.

WWW

[Funkie]

Hi all,

Well, wow this is a surprise given that most other airlines have frozen or completely cancelled sponsorship schemes like this.

Major wannabe, I presume that you have already received the prospectus given that you would appear to know so much, ie cost and intended cadets to be selected.

Funkster, I would agree, I cant really see a bank coming up with that amount given the current financial market, especially in aviation, perhaps a letter of conformation would be enough to secure the funds.

WWW, got any advice on how to shine at this moment in time, as I’m sure we would all love to hear them

I too will be applying, and hope to see you at the interview stages.

Good luck to all who apply.

Ps, any of you folks going to the Gatbash in December at Gatwick……….

Regards

Fra ;)

[Artificial Horizon]

As someone who is at the moment mid term on a British European sponsorship I can assure you that it is worth the £32,000. Not only are you saving £16,000 on the normal £48,000 course but you have a job at the end of all the hard work and stress. When I went through the process Cabair didn't require any proof of funds being available in order to offer you the sponsorship but they did ask everyone that I knew of if they were confident that they could gather up that much cash. In my experience though the bank was more than helpful because I had a contract that set out all of the costings very clearly, the bank managers exact words were 'well if the airline is willing to stake £x then it would be silly of me not to front up the balance' and that was that.

Not bad prospects at BEA either, there is a bit of a slowdown at the moment but BEA are still expanding through routes left behind by GILL and they are having 12 new RJX-100 jets on order to start delivery from the 3rd quarter of 2002, so the prospect of going straigt onto jets is quite a big possibility.

Please anyone out there who wants to be a pilot, NEVER turn your nose up at a part sponsorship, to do so is just silly, especially given the present climate. Anyway goodluck to all of those applying, might see ya up front someday soon.

A.H. :)

[EGDY2]

I think you're all barking mad - £32,000 for a 'guaranteed jet job' this sounds familiar.
After all , in the current climate whose to say the company must employ you ! They are only investing £16k so can quite easily cut and run if required.

[Vicious Squirrel]

Well I know what you mean by the 'guaranteed jet job' bit, but you do get a full F-ATPL course, possibly with a 146 or F-27 type rating (not sure on that one) for around £32000. Not a bad deal in my books, and even if there isn't a guaranteed job at the end you still have that chance, which is a lot more than most self sponsored wannabes will have when they qualify.

Dunno about you, but i'm going for it! Good luck to all!

VS

[Sagey]

I am going for it as well, as soon as my second form arrives.

Got the first form :o), then the cat saw it on the table and decided to rip up the fun envelope and put prints on and crumble the form.

PSYCHOTIC cat now for sale.

Seriously though, although I am applying I think everyone should keep a very close eye on the situation, British European have been very brave, I really hope that it works out for BE and for the lucky ones.

Good luck everybody.

Sagey

[Bowser]

It is great to hear that BEA are advertising for the Cabair scheme.

However, what nobody appears to have mentioned in any of the above posts is that the £16000 so called 'sponsorship money', will actually get deducted from your salary over a five year period, once in BEA.

To all those thinking of going for this, please take the above into account when doing your sums !

[WAIF-er]

I for one will NOT be applying to this scheme, simply because of the cost.

I normally apply to all of the schemes that are going, but considering the current climate, I will be giving it a miss.

I dont want to spend loads of money that I havent got only to find the scheme goes T*ts up halfway through, or there are no jobs at the end of it.

VTOL: "job at the end of it". How sure can you be of this? I'm sure that it will say somewhere in the contract that you are not guaranteed anything, depending on the circumstances.


Not being a doom and gloom, just being realistic. Of course, if money is no obstacle, go for it!

[fritz_2001]

bowser - how do you know this? it isn't in the prospectus. I have the air2000 prospectus from last year and indeed it quite clearly states that some money will be deducted, but in this BE one there is no mention of such a practice.

costly? yes but a lot cheaper than self funding and even with the promise (not guarentee) of a job, it is a hell of a lot more worthwhile than paying for the whole thing myself and definitely not having a job at the end!! I guess it isn't for everyone as it may not fit in with everyone's lifestyle but for those who can beg/borrow/steal the cash then it is (in my opinion) an opportunity not to be missed.

major wannabee

[Sagey]

If it goes tits up, you are liable to what BE have not spent on you.

Reading the form it appears, students put money up front, BE pay it when they need too. That was the impression I got!!!

Sagey

[Sagey]

Not very long about 3 months I think. I don't know I still waiting for my second form after the cat did his WU-TANG impression on it.

I just hope they send me another one lol

It says a bit about if failing to meet requirements then u have to pay back British European the amount that they have spent on you so far. That gives me the impression they do not pay for it upfront. I could be wrong though.

Sagey

[carlos vandango]

Just to clarify a point..the money IS deducted from salary over 5 years. Cadets are high on the list of choppables in BE but then it's the same everywhere. I don't think the next year or so is gonna be a good one for cadets in general - look at the poor guys in Aer Lingus. Good luck anyway.

[Checklist]

Just to second what Carlos has said. The £16000 is deducted from your salary over five years.

If you take the sponsorship scheme and are successful AND a Job is available at the end, you will take up a position within British European on the Dash8. Few lucky ones have managed to go directly onto the BAe146, but you will more than likely go onto the Dash8, a fine aeroplane.

I would personally think of the British European scheme as a 'Career Loan' rather than a sponsorship.

Good luck.

[Dudley]

Someone was asking about salary.

If you are a cadet with BE you get £20,000 a year, and they deduce £330 a month from you net salary. With Duty pay (variable part based on flying hours) you have a magic... £1,100 / month (roughly). Not great if you have to pay a £500 on the side for the partial sponsorship but OK because it gives you a job + good hours. For those wanting to calculate a "busines plan" if they get the sponsorship, those amounts are pretty accurate at least for the first year of employment... In term of job security, Cadets are mainline pilots and therefore are treated like anybody else on the seniority list. Hope all that helped you

Bye

[Island Air]

You would think in the current climate you young 'uns would try to get the detail correct. British European do not have an F27's any more, and they are BE not BEA. Even someone who purports to be on the current scheme cannot get their name right!

Also, genuine peeps interested in this 'sponsorship' scheme remember that only a couple of months ago BE were in trouble, laying off Pilots (CRJ fleet). They have now stepped into some of the old Gill routes which were not very strong loads, and they are suffering badly on the 2 routes they run into lcy from Scotland. Just have all the facts before you leap in. Also, they will chop you as soon as look at you if needs must. Good luck to those that deserve it.

[JT8]

Good point you make Island Air. I was concerned a few months back on hearing some CRJ pilot jobs were to go, and thought this would mean no sponsorship this year. With the added events of Sept 11th, I was amazed to find it's still happenning.

I will apply, but can't say I'm not worried it may go t*ts up. Plus there's the 32k issue..... :eek: (I can get my whole licence done for that price if I go modular!)

Good luck!
JT8

[skysoarer]

I sent off the application today; so I guess they may look at it on Monday - but then the deadline isn't for another 3 1/2 weeks.

I too was surprised to see it going ahead, especially after getting the letter from Cabair regarding the Air2k sponsorship. But I am also weary of it suddenly stopping ... aswell as the "Finance and Contract" section of the prospectus.

Oh ... I'd say it's pretty reasonable for them to ask for a £40k bond ... most banks offering loans would ask for a guarantee for a similar value (i.e. your house! HSBC not included as they are an exception to this rule). So this does not surprise me at all.

Keeping my fingers crossed for a +ve result!

Sky

[PFO]

Well it would appear I am reaching the end of my "sponsorship application life"!

I have had the pleasure of meeting some fantastic wannabees over the years at all the aptitudes/final interviews I have attended. You all deserve to succeed and I wish you all the best in your sponsorship applications.

I must now follow the modular route - ATPL's here I come........

Never give up - see you at the pointy end.

PFO

[skysoarer]

RT;

You're right, the circumstances of the bond arn't really made clear at this point. Perhaps they'll enlighten us more closer to starting if we get through (thats a rather large excessive IF...) .

However, if I went to a bank such Barclays and asked for a £50k loan then they'd still want a guarantee in case you cannot keep up repayments. If this happened they always say 'your house maybe at risk blah blah blah' even through your house maybe worth more than £50k. Its a similar case with BE; if you quit (which they don't want you to) then they want more money back than they invested in you, just like the bank would (your inconvenience factor maybe...). Thats how I see it but I was never good at finances! Anyway why would you quit after all that hard graft ... be sure before you commit that dosh!

But YES anyone with anything more on this please post!

Regards;

Sky

[Springbok220]

2 queries: -

1) It says in the last section of the prospectus that if employment is not offered immediately following course completion, but the airline does intend eventually to offer, you must accept that offer for a period up to 3 years after graduation.

Does this mean that if there is no job immediately, you can't seek employment elsewhere?

Or does it just mean that you can get another job, but must resign in the event of BE making an employment offer within 3 years?

2) If you have to get married ( :rolleyes: ) at the start of April, is there any point in applying even though you are prepared to not go on honeymoon (I obviously have not discussed this fact with the future Mrs Springbok220 yet!!)but would need a few days off?

[Springbok220]

I was justing thinking about the situation and given you have to be bonded to the company for 6 years and 1 month, then surely you can't seek other employment, even if no offer from BE is forthcoming upon graduation.

[wobblyprop]

what to do, what to do?

I sent off for the sponsorship app. form and have read it thorough, all very nice but, what are they really after?

The course sounds like ab-in. but there is space for imc rating which i have etc. I've got my class 1, bless the CAA for letting me through, asthma being the only possible thing they could have got me on.

I'm also half way through the ATPL ground exams. And hoping to have completed them by jan.

Would BE dimiss me out of hand or does it show the type of person they are after. I guess i/they could save a fair bit of cash by not paying 6 months board at cranfield.

Any ideas (insider info welcome)? I've cleared the money with the bank and am more than ready to go.

[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: wobblyprop ]

[JT8]

Folks,

As concerned as I am about BE maybe pulling out, and leaving me in debt during the course, I'm quite concerned about the state of Cabair. I can't say I know what position they are currently in from a financial perspective, but surely they in for a harsh time over the next year or two? After paying 32k up front whats the chance of getting it back if they DID go under? Not good I expect.

I never turn my nose up to any sonsorship, but given the uncertainty and risk associated, I'm going to think long and hard before accepting (as if I'd be selected anyway! :D).

Best of luck, JT8

[fritz_2001]

I seem to remember reading on the back of the prospectus where the breakdown of the cost are that included in the price is "loss of training fees insurance" or word to that effect. I don't know exactly what this means but maybe this will help if cabair/BE get into trouble.
mw

[bluff]

Island Air

Just so that everyone here is not mislead. There have been NO lay offs as a result of the CRJ being withdrawn.

All those affected have been offered the Dash 8 or the 146, most of them will be reverting to their previous types.

Good luck to those of you applying.