P1/s

[vicarofdibley]

OK could someone please explain.

For CPL license issue 100 hours P1 is required.

BUT I know that CPL skills test time as P1/s doesnt count towards this total. But what about PPL skills test or IMC test?

IF they dont count towards CPL P1 hours then do they count towards the 70 hours P1 required for a MEP rating.

The PPL skills test P1/s hours count towards total P1 for issue of a PPL.

I have passed my CPL skills test I have 99 hours and 50 minutes P1 and 5 hours 30 minutes P1/s. Do I need another 10 minutes for issue of CPL?

I struggle to see how the CAA count P1/s as P1 for PPL and then not for CPL - how many approved log books have seperate columns?

Thanks for your help

[Evo]

For what it's worth, I was told by my PPL skills test examiner that the CAA always count P1/s as Pu/t for licence issue (his view was that I might as well log my passed test as Pu/t). However, I never managed to find anything on the CAA website to confirm this - GID44 (logging of flight time) doesn't clarify it.

[P.Pilcher]

Common sense tells us that P1/s means pilot flying in command under supervision. Hence my F/O logs his flight time as either P1/S if he is flying the aeroplane or, on the legs where he monitors me, does the radio and paperwork he enters P2 in his logbook. Thus, if you are flying a single pilot aircraft and undergoing a skills test, IMC test or whatever, you are flying the aircraft as though you were in command under the supervision of your examiner. He/she is in command particularly as you will probably be required to do things for test purposes that in the normal course of events you wouldn't want to do - such as flying on limited panel and recovering from unusual attitudes on the I.M.C. test. These days, the only time I put P1/S in my logbook is when I am doing an OPC check, because I wouldn't fly an ILS approach down to minima with one engine throttled back and my view of the runway obscured if I was carrying pax!P1 means that you are flying the aircraft under your own command, and there is nobody on board who is fulfilling the duty of telling you what to do.

This, in my opinion, is common sense however the Chaps may have a different view on the matter!

[G-SPOTs Lost]

This is a very well discussed subject.

Beagle is your man for this, he'll probably comment in due course

[boeingbus2002]

For what its worth..
I heard any "successfull" passed test can be included in P1 time. So i see that as PPL, IMC etc.
Any partial pass is P1 u/t

P1/s or SPIC (Student Pilot In Command) is similar to P1 but as a student, you could not fly solo on instruments..hence you have a safety pilot (or your instructor).

Still very confusing though!! Would like to see this clarifed..cheers

[FlyingForFun]

P. Pilcher,

The subject of P1/S has been discussed many times on these forums before, especially in Private Flying. But I've never heard anyone suggest that it can be logged in a multi-pilot aircraft before!

The usual question is whether it can be logged when flying with an instructor, but not for instruction or a test, e.g. for a checkout at a new club. The usual answer is that opinion is split 50/50 yes/no. GID44 is the document which describes how to log your time. The only place which GID44 says you can log P1/S is for a flight test, if you pass the test. However, it doesn't explicitly preclude you from logging P1/S at other times, and it doesn't suggest any particular way of logging time with an instructor when it is neither instruction nor a test. Which is why opinion is so split on this issue.

Off the top of my head, I don't know what the document says about logging time as a co-pilot when acting as pilot-flying. I would have thought that this is logged as P2, but since I'm a long way off being able to fly multi-pilot aircraft myself, I haven't really researched it! But I would suggest that you read GID44 and see what it says. If it does say anything at all, you should do as it says - it certainly doesn't say you can log P1/S, though, because I'd have noticed that when researching the whole P1/S issue. If it doesn't say anything, then you're in the same boat as us PPLs wanting to log time with an instructor, i.e. I suspect that opinion would be fairly well split.


To answer the original question, though - I was under the impression that P1/S time goes in the "In command" column in your log book, and therefore counts exactly the same way as P1 time? The only difference, I thought, is that by one of you logging P1/S, both pilots can record time in the "In command" column - something which is not allowed under other circumstances under the JARs (although the FARs do allow it).

:confused: :confused: :confused:

When will the CAA clarify the situation? It really is quite ridiculous the number of times this subject comes up, and the fact that there's no difinitive answer. :mad:

FFF
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[Stan Evil]

Going back to the original question . . .

The difference is that before you can take the CPL Skills Test you must meet the training and experience requirements for licence issue. So the CPL Skill Test hours dont count as you must satisfy the requirements beforehand whereas your previous successful tests (like PPL, ME Class and IMC) will count.

[Flysundone]

I am a First Officer on a turbo-prop.

The Chief Pilot of the airline I fly for advised me that when I am the handling pilot I log the time as P1/s. In the column headed Commander I insert the name of the captain of the aircraft.

When I am the non-handling pilot the time is inserted as P2. I believe P2 time is also counted at 50% for total flying time.

[P.Pilcher]

Sorry, FlyingForFun - it looks like I have been doing it wrong for the last 25 years - as have all my colleagues. I would point out that I started my last post with the words "Common Sense" I then finished by suggesting that in reality "common sense" may not prevail!


regards, P.P.

[FlyingForFun]

in reality "common sense" may not prevail
How true!

FFF
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[ravenx]

Vicarofdibley - I've got a great idea - fly another 10 minutes. How much can it cost and surely it's better than the headache of a returned application form:) :)

[StrateandLevel]

To quote from LASORS page 51

P1S (PIC U/S) counted in full towards licence experience requirements.

Where a lot of people get confused is that whilst the PPL Skill test is logged as P1S, it does not count towards the SOLO time, but it does count as PIC time hence it is logged in the IN Command Column.

[vicarofdibley]

I flew a circuit. I now have 100 hours and 10 minutes P1.

I also looked on the CAA site at GID 44 (sorry if reference is confused, so am I)(subpart J)

The CAA site suggests that P1/s time as part of a skills test is counted as P1 for license issue, according to their documentation. However after a telephone conversation I am not totally convinced...

But I meet the 100 hours P1 anyway, I only posted for a quick answer but seemed to have opened a veritable can of worms.

thanks everyone

the vicar

[BEagle]

This is what we do at our Club:

What do I log? 1. There has been some discussion recently about what to log when licence holders are flying with FIs. To simplify and standardise matters, if the flight is conducted under the supervision of a FI (such as a Club Check), then the FI is the person who logs the time as Commander (P1C). The other pilot does not. If he/she wishes to log it at logs P1C U/S then the FI should endorse his/her logbook accordingly; if the FI is not content with the way the flight went and is not prepared to endorse the logbook, then the other pilot should log the time as P U/T. Revalidation or Renewal Proficiency Checks (which are only flown with an Authorised Examiner) follow these same guidelines.

What do I log? 2. When 2 qualified licence holders fly together in a Club aircraft, on occasion they may wish to share the flying. However, only 1 will be authorised as ‘Commander’ and that is the person who the Club holds responsible for the safe conduct of the entire flight. If the 2 pilots wish to share the flying, then each may log their own individual P1 time, but the total must be the same as the flight time. The designated Commander should also initial the logbook of the other pilot to confirm that the flight time logged by that pilot was so shared and should be named as Commander in the other pilot’s personal flying logbook.